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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/21/2003 6:38:44 AM EDT
I was at a gun show this weekend and came across a Colt AR-15 SP-1 for sale on a smaller table.

The SP-1 was in ok shape. The stock has some crazing to the finish like bakelite plastic sometimes does. It had the 3 prong suppressor, bayonet lug, and no forward assist so I am assuming that it is the original upper.

I took a look inside and it appears to be in good shape internally with the only real wear in the mag well.

The upper and lower seemed a bit loose compared to my newer AR. The front pin was replaced with a large screw head type pin so I was unable to tell if the upper and lower had matching size holes pivot holes.

The metal parts of the upper and lower did not seem to be worn or scratched noticably.

The guy was asking $1150 and was willing to take less. I am looking to buy a pre-ban but I am not having much luck finding one locally. I want a beater that I can put a collapsible stock and shorter barrel on. I ride an ATV on my land and need something that I can take in the woods and not worry about getting scratched. I can keep the SP-1 upper for my 22 conversion kit and buy a carbine upper.

Does this seem like an ok deal? The guy was not getting much interest to begin with so I gave him my card and told him to call me in a few days because I did not have the money that day anyway. I am betting he will call. Should I make an offer after taking another look at it? Can you tell me what to look for?

I am not very well versed in what can and cannot be done with interchangeable parts on the SP-1. I got bitten by the AR bug in the Navy and decided to buy a 25th Anniversary Bushmaster earlier this year. I do not take it in the woods. That is why I want a beater.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 6:54:00 AM EDT
USNDOC I don't honestly know the going rate these days. You should check the Equipment Exchange area of this board to get an idea of what preban lowers cost. I do know there is a noticeable reduction since a year ago as people are beginning to think the assault weapon ban (the one that makes one a preban and the other postban) is going to sunset making ALL ARs preban. If it does, then the SP1 has equivelent value to a new AR excepting any residual value one might hold for the Colt name or the history of the SP1. Frankly, I think right now you are better off with a carbine upper and a fixed A2 stock. You only save a little bit in length with the collapsable, and you really don't need the bayo lug. That way, if the AWB does sunset, you didn't overpay by $500 for a preban. Best of luck
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 9:07:42 AM EDT
Well USNDOC this is my suggestion. I see postbans close to preban prices now a days. The Colt SP-1 is a nice rifle. It does have some collector value, but you already know that the AWB is supposedly sunsetting next year. It could work to your benefit or against you if they put a new ban in place. 1000 bucks is a good deal for a decent SP1. Check the upper and lower for play, check the barrel and chamber. For what you want to do the SP1 will work. Max
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 9:14:38 AM EDT
Well, like assholes, everyone has one. I am no pony show guy, hell I have never owned one. I see little difference in it and the other AR's other than the manuf. stamp. That said, when I find a good deal on one I will buy it, as they are good rifles and they ARE the standard others are measured by to some extent. Pre-Bans may or may not become history, the AWB is yet to be played out. If they do you can lose a few hundred, if it doesnt, you will gain a lot of equity instantly. I would shop the SP-1's as their cost is more in line with other preban AR's, and a grand is to me worth it. Add the value of a possible private sale and you have/had a winner, imho.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 9:18:25 AM EDT
Thanks for the comments. The local gun store has racks of post bans. I prefer going with somthing that I can add a collapsible stock and maybe someday I will get the tax stamp for a can. I cannot do either with a post ban. The SP-1 does have some play in it with the current upper. Would this be a concern if I put the shorter barrel on it? I am thinking that I saw somewhere on here that there is an adapter available to make the big hole lower work with small hole uppers. I am not a gambling man and waiting on the sunset to happen is not appealing.... I want it now. :-) Besides if it does expire it might be more reason to buy more.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 9:33:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2003 9:36:30 AM EDT by Gunslinger808]
In Arizona, $1100.00 is about the going rate for a nice SP-1. A little wobble between the uppers and lowers is common and will not affect function or accuracy. As to the adapter pin: [url]http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/lowers/nes-06.asp[/url] One nice thing about a pre ban is that you can put just about any upper on it without fear of violating the AWB. BTW welcome to the addiction! Edited to add: Just be sure barrel is at least 16" long and weapon OAL is 28" lest you run afoul of the ATF.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 10:56:36 AM EDT
The SP1 you described sounds like a really early one. They didn't have the 3 prong open flash supressors for very long before they changed over to the A1 birdcage. The price you quoted sounds about right, maybe even a tad on the low side (seeing as how I see M4 uppers selling for almost a grand now)... For a collector, that'd be a great buy. If you really want to pick up a pre-ban and that's the only available one around...first thing I'd do is take that upper off and save it, cause the upper alone is worth a fair bit of money. Pick up a new upper from Bushmaster, and see if can trade or find a Colt collapsing stock on the Equipment Exchange here. (You can go with bushmaster for that too, but the bushy and the colt have different size buffer tube diameters..no big deal, but something you may want to consider if you're looking for alternate stocks)... It'll cost more if you buy this SP1 and try to go the carbine route with it (figure at least $100 for the stock, at least $500 for another upper)...it may pay to search specifically for a carbine model AR to just buy. Especially if you manage to find a Bushmaster, with the A2 lower reciever configuration.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 5:57:08 AM EDT
I have another quick question. I can tell the differences between an A2 config upper and an SP-1 upper. What are the differences between an A2 lower and an SP-1 lower? I know the front take down pin is larger on the SP-1. Thanks again for your comments. I am not yet set on buying the SP-1. I forgot to mention that the guy was going to talk to his brother about selling some of his AR's. Hopefully one of them is a later pre-ban.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 7:04:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By USNDOC: I have another quick question. I can tell the differences between an A2 config upper and an SP-1 upper. What are the differences between an A2 lower and an SP-1 lower? I know the front take down pin is larger on the SP-1. Thanks again for your comments. I am not yet set on buying the SP-1. I forgot to mention that the guy was going to talk to his brother about selling some of his AR's. Hopefully one of them is a later pre-ban.
View Quote
USNDOC, I think I was looking at that SP-1 also. Was it the only AR in a vertical rack with other rifles in a smaller vendors display? It was the only SP-1 I saw at the show. My opinion is, it was pretty beat. Personally, I think you can find something in better shape if you look around more. At this time I'm not buying ANYTHING considered to be a preban item. Why? because you will be paying premium price for something that may be worth half as much next year. IMO buying preban is a total ripoff. Other than my preban AK47 under folder which I bought prior to the ban, I have all post ban stuff. If the ban sunsets I'll simply change out the buffer tube and stock on my M4 and maybe replace the compensator with flash hider. I really have no use for a bayonet. As far as my long rifles are concerned (Varminter), I don't know that I'd even bother swapping out the stock. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the preban components appeal to the Carbine builders more than anyone else. What I will be happy to see is reasonably priced hi-cap magazines. Speaking of mags, anyone know if the sunset of the ban would release "hi-cap pistol mags" as well??? Differences between an A2 lower and an SP-1 lower? The raised fence around the mag release is the most obvious... --RR
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 8:48:10 AM EDT
USNDOC, you can get an Accuwedge to get rid of the play between the U/L receivers, just squeeze the U/L receivers together while you push the takeown pin. I think Bushmaster sells the off-set pin you need to combine a large hole lower with a small hole upper. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 10:15:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By USNDOC: I have another quick question. I can tell the differences between an A2 config upper and an SP-1 upper. What are the differences between an A2 lower and an SP-1 lower? I know the front take down pin is larger on the SP-1.
View Quote
An A2 upper will have the following differences: Different rear sight Bolt assist Brass deflector An SP1 upper will have the old A1 rear sight, and it will NOT have a brass deflector or a bolt assist. Sometimes they're called slick or slabsides, partly because there's no raised fences at all on the lower reciever, and partly because there's no protrousions on the upper reciever by the ejection port. An SP1 lower will NOT look like an M16A1 or A2 lower. The SP1 lowers had no reinforcing ribs, no raised fences. It was completly flat on the right hand side of the reciever, whereas the M16 and bushmaster recievers have all sorts of reinforcing ridges and fences all around. For a graphic example, in the photo below...the top rifle is an AR15A2 hbar; it has an A2 upper but an SP1 lower. The middle rifle is my SP1 carbine; you can see the lack of a forward assist and brass deflector. The bottom rifle is my M4gery, and you can clearly see the reinforcements and fences on the lower reciever. [img]http://www.misplaced.net/~obremski/toy/ars.jpg[/img] This answer your question? [:D]
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 3:15:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2003 3:25:09 PM EDT by ybh_613]
Go to [url]www.tapco.com[/url] and get a stock like you want for about $29.99, then look at [url]www.model1sales.com[/url] and get a nice 16" upper for about$285.00 + the cost of a bolt& carrier$115.00. Thats the route I took and my ar shoots as well as any other I've shot. And its saves $$$$$ I use my 22 conv kit in the model "1" upper without any problems. Save the money and buy MORE ammo. OK. Just checked Model "1" and found the cost for the bolt carrier group AND the charger is only $85.00. This saves you almost $50.00. Now you can BUY even MORE AMMO.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 10:18:32 AM EDT
the1_roadrunner I see you are listed as being from AZ. I was at the Salem VA show. But, assuming you were at the same show there was an SP-1 on a rack. Yes it was in rough shape but they were asking premium prices on all items. The one I was talking about was on a small table near the middle of the left wall as you came in. Now that I think about it, I do remember that it had a round hand guard versus the triangle on the one you are speaking of. But, it was marked SP-1 and all of the other features match the pictures above.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 11:35:23 AM EDT
Evil_Ed, I like your AR15A2 HBAR, I've got an AR15A2 Gov't model from around the same vintage. Is that an early JFS patrol sling on the HBAR? It reminded me that I've got one of those slings somewhere in the basement. I'll have to dig it out.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 6:05:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2003 8:53:16 AM EDT by Derek45]
See if he'll take $1000 The COLT SP-1 is a joy to behold. It's a classic, the one that started it all. I haggled this one for $1000, tax included. Guess thats about $935. [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/048438.JPG[/img]
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 8:49:02 AM EDT
I am with the rest of the posters, go in with $1,000 cash and tell him it is the best you can do. That would be a fair price for both of you. Last year I had a chance to pickup several SP-1s for $850 each, and like an idiot I didn't. The AWB is going to expire, but there is still too much of a possibility that something else will grow in its place.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 5:22:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ar15a292f: Evil_Ed, I like your AR15A2 HBAR, I've got an AR15A2 Gov't model from around the same vintage. Is that an early JFS patrol sling on the HBAR? It reminded me that I've got one of those slings somewhere in the basement. I'll have to dig it out.
View Quote
Actually, it HAD the patrol sling on it (still have it)...that's a slightly different / newer sling (which basically does the same thing and acts the same way). I'll wind up throwing that patrol sling on the SP1 I just picked up. Don't have a photo of that one yet [:)]
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 5:29:23 AM EDT
Thanks for the advice guys. I will have to wait to see if he calls. I am pretty sure that he will. Maybe his brother will have something a little newer to offer as well. If he does not call, he did tell me that he would be at the next show coming up in late August.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 8:54:03 AM EDT
I saw an AR at a show recently that made me just shake my head and move on. It was an "Factory Original COLT SP-1 M4". Those are so rare that the guy wanted $2500. "Colt" was written twice as large as the other words and was underlined several times. [rolleyes] I didn't even say anything, I just feel sorry for whoever that guy ends up scamming.
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