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Posted: 3/10/2005 12:34:26 PM EST
How are they chambered? Wylde, or ????
Where can I get machinists drawings of current SPR barrel configuration?
Thanks
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 12:53:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By mach6:
How are they chambered? Wylde, or ????
Where can I get machinists drawings of current SPR barrel configuration?
Thanks



www.whiteoakarmament.com

www.whiteoakprecision.com
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 1:57:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 2:16:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/10/2005 2:18:04 PM EST by bigbore]
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 2:19:42 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 2:19:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Frank White of Compass Lake Engineering makes all the real SPR barrels if I am not mistaken? I dont know if they would release specs or not, but here's their www site www.compasslake.com/




Gene Barnett contoured the SPR barrels, back when they were still being built. Compass lake actually contours all the WOA SPR barrels though with Wylde chambers. The real ones have a modified AMU chamber.



Is the SPR program still alive?
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 2:23:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 2:28:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By mongo001:

Is the SPR program still alive?



Over and done, no more being built. I believe I have the last real SPR upper built



So what is the new program, so that I can plan my next build?
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 2:29:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 2:31:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Oh, too bad. Maybe not, I mean, they probably arent as useful as some other guns, I wouldnt really know on way or the other. I do know I sure like them.



Oh, I'll be keeping mine. I was going to stockpile some barrels for it, but I figured I could always have a barrel profiled and chambered when I need one. I'll keep mine as a historical piece.
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 2:59:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/10/2005 2:59:42 PM EST by bigbore]
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 3:19:52 PM EST
Yes but SPR was for the USSOC folk (hence the Mk moniker) while the SDMR is for regular Army.

Link Posted: 3/10/2005 5:25:50 PM EST
I bet there are more SPRs/clones in civilian hands than in the military...

Spooky
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 5:31:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 5:37:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By Spooky130:
I bet there are more SPRs/clones in civilian hands than in the military...

Spooky




I know thats a fact.



Are we talking about close Mk12 clones or your "generic" SPRs? I know I've seen alot of Mk12 clones on these boards changing hands.
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 5:46:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 5:51:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/10/2005 5:51:24 PM EST by mongo001]

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By mongo001:

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By Spooky130:
I bet there are more SPRs/clones in civilian hands than in the military...

Spooky




I know thats a fact.



Are we talking about close Mk12 clones or your "generic" SPRs? I know I've seen alot of Mk12 clones on these boards changing hands.



Looking at how many I sold, and how many were built for CRANE, I think there are more real ones. My definition of "real" is at least built with a SPR contoured barrel.



Well, as you know, I just took one step closer to getting mine as authentic as possible. Now if I could just figure out how to get an M16A1 receiver with a KAC two stage trigger legally in my hot little hands........................................................................................... But alas, I live in the semi-PR of Mi, so that will never happen as long as I live here.


Link Posted: 3/10/2005 6:35:46 PM EST
What is the AMU chamber and how does it differ from the Wylde chamber?

Link Posted: 3/10/2005 6:55:06 PM EST
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 7:07:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By ian187:
What is the AMU chamber and how does it differ from the Wylde chamber?




The AMU chamber is a secret.

The specs on the Wylde are:
It has the same body dimensions as the 5.56,
but has match throat dimensions. What this does is give the reliability of the
5.56, yet the throat allows for excellent accuracy with a wide range of
bullets. While originally designed to get maximum accuracy from issue ammo, when
the 80gr sierra entered the scene in the mid 90's, it was found that this
chamber was ideal for this bullet also.

For the numbers types, the critical dimensions are:

Freebore, .061"
Freebore diameter, .2240"
Lead angle, 1 deg 15 minutes.
Neck diameter, .2558



Are you saying you do not know what the AMU dimensions are?

Link Posted: 3/10/2005 7:38:10 PM EST
tag
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 2:37:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 4:08:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By ian187:
What is the AMU chamber and how does it differ from the Wylde chamber?




The AMU chamber is a secret.

The specs on the Wylde are:
It has the same body dimensions as the 5.56,
but has match throat dimensions. What this does is give the reliability of the
5.56, yet the throat allows for excellent accuracy with a wide range of
bullets. While originally designed to get maximum accuracy from issue ammo, when
the 80gr sierra entered the scene in the mid 90's, it was found that this
chamber was ideal for this bullet also.

For the numbers types, the critical dimensions are:

Freebore, .061"
Freebore diameter, .2240"
Lead angle, 1 deg 15 minutes.
Neck diameter, .2558


-----------------
Okay, now we're getting somewhere. This begs two follow-on questions:

1. Will a Wylde chamber function reliably in a select-fire/FA 18.0" bbl application?
2. As an alternative to going through the goat-rope of a true SPR profile, what other barrel profile would make sense for an 18.0" barrel that would be built to deliver excellent battlefield accuracy (not Camp Perry) and yet be practical in terms of weight for a standard GI rifle. Why not an HBAR profile cut down to 18.0"?

This is preliminary info needed for a small military requirement.

Thank you.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 4:41:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2005 4:42:13 AM EST by bigbore]
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 5:16:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By mach6:

2. As an alternative to going through the goat-rope of a true SPR profile, what other barrel profile would make sense for an 18.0" barrel that would be built to deliver excellent battlefield accuracy (not Camp Perry) and yet be practical in terms of weight for a standard GI rifle. Why not an HBAR profile cut down to 18.0"?

Thank you.



The chamber will shoot anything. I know of several on M16s and no complaints.
For your build, you cant have the best of both worlds - the SPR is a compromise. Do you want more of a match rifle, or do you want a light rifle? Why cut 2" off an HBAR? Leave it at 20. "battlefield accuracy" with a 5.56 can be debated until the end of the world. Define your needs and build from there.



I'll weigh in on the 20 vs. 18 aspect. IMO the 18 inchers came into being because someone, somewhere on a committee arbitrarily favored getting the rifles overall length down to one yard, i.e. 36 inches. Or just wanted to "split the difference" between shorties and rifles.

I built my first SPR clone using a 20 inch HBAR, and found the handling while shooting offhand to be degraded from excess weight. Great on the bipod/bench, but tiring when held and fired standing. After building a flat top using a Govt. profile barrel, even my favorite MT6700 HBAR started to feel "fat".

Here's the upper now from my MT6700 after I rebuilt her using the cut/threaded/reprofiled factory Colt barrel. The other rifle length "formerly an HBAR" below it is going into my SPR RE-build, and it's original HBAR will be recycled into something else eventually. Once you go "thin", you won't want to "dance with a fat lady" ever again...
Paladin


Link Posted: 3/11/2005 5:31:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2005 5:33:36 AM EST by dmk0210]

Why not an HBAR profile cut down to 18.0"?

Why not an RRA 18" varmint barrel? It has a Wylde chamber, 1/8 twist and a midlength gas system. I'm not sure about the weight, but you could always flute it.

Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:29:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2005 4:59:55 AM EST by mach6]

Originally Posted By dmk0210:

Why not an HBAR profile cut down to 18.0"?

Why not an RRA 18" varmint barrel? It has a Wylde chamber, 1/8 twist and a midlength gas system. I'm not sure about the weight, but you could always flute it.

www.rockriverarms.com/images/bblv.gif


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, but this was already debated by the unit commander when he spec'd his overall requirements. the bbl length decision ws based on a compromise between portability/pointability and the need to deliver accurate fire with enough energy at 500-600M. While this RRA barrel would certainly work in terms of the accuracy department and could definitely be profiled to a lighter, handier package, this particular stainless alloy wouldn't be the material of choice for longevity -- especially on a weapon that would from time to to time be used in select-fire/FA mode. I'm certainly no expert, just a guy involved in the staffing process, but I would think either Lothar Walther's special MG stainless or just a chrome moly barrel would suffice in this length. What do you think? Any other thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:14:56 AM EST
Without going SPR profile, the only way to get weight down and retain the accuracy is to flute to the barrel. 18" with heavy flutes will get you very close to the same weight as the SPR profile.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 9:34:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By ian187:
Without going SPR profile, the only way to get weight down and retain the accuracy is to flute to the barrel. 18" with heavy flutes will get you very close to the same weight as the SPR profile.


=======================
Funny you mention that solution. Commander and staff just had a meeting late Saturday and came to same conclusion. HBAR profile barrel (at USG price, of course), 1:8 ROT, Wylde chamber, cut down to 18" and fluted by local -30 level (GS Maint) shop. Voila! We're there, thanks guys. Nice to find solutions on this board and workarounds that don't screw the taxpayer.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 11:47:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By ian187:
Without going SPR profile, the only way to get weight down and retain the accuracy is to flute to the barrel. 18" with heavy flutes will get you very close to the same weight as the SPR profile.



I would suggest going to the Shilen barrel company web site, and reading their comments regarding fluting barrels, which they will NOT do.

Paladin
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 2:34:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By PALADIN-hgwt:

Originally Posted By ian187:
Without going SPR profile, the only way to get weight down and retain the accuracy is to flute to the barrel. 18" with heavy flutes will get you very close to the same weight as the SPR profile.



I would suggest going to the Shilen barrel company web site, and reading their comments regarding fluting barrels, which they will NOT do.

Paladin



...and at least 10 other high end barrel makers will.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 3:17:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By ian187:
...and at least 10 other high end barrel makers will.



DITTO
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:10:01 AM EST
I wasn't being judgemental one way or the other, just pointing out that at least one reputable company does not agree with the practice. Personally I feel that anything to reduce some of the excess weight of many current barrel offerings is a GOOD thing...

Paladin
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 7:21:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By PALADIN-hgwt:

Originally Posted By ian187:
Without going SPR profile, the only way to get weight down and retain the accuracy is to flute to the barrel. 18" with heavy flutes will get you very close to the same weight as the SPR profile.



I would suggest going to the Shilen barrel company web site, and reading their comments regarding fluting barrels, which they will NOT do.

Paladin


=================
Change 3: Just got out of a Decision Brief and it was decided to not flute, but rather reprofile barrels. Cost and time involved would be significantly less. Will definitely be 18.0" barrels. Will use PRI flip sight gas block and Smith Vortex. Jury's still out on HG's and optics. Interesting in that IOR is being favorably looked at, in addition to Leupold. I kinda like the new 1.5-5X20 MR/T M2 with Illum SPR reticle, given that this will be a do everything rifle/carbine.
Link Posted: 3/17/2005 10:30:40 AM EST
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