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Posted: 8/29/2005 10:59:46 AM EDT
I NEVER WOULD HAVE BELIEVED IT .... A 7.5" SHORTIE THAT RUNS RELIABLY:
 THESE WERE DEVELOPED BY OUR FRIENDLY FOLKS AT "CHRISTIANS IN ACTION" AS THE MOST COMPACT SUCH WEAPON THAT COULD BE BUILT AND RUN RELIABLY. THE BARRELS ARE CHROME LINED 1X7" TWIST WITH M4 FEED RAMPS. THE GAS BLOCK IS A PROPRIETARY DESIGN THAT ONLY FITS THIS BARREL. A SPECIAL GAS TUBE IS USED. THE CHAMBER IS AT THE MAXIMUM NATO SPEC, SO THAT IT WILL EAT AND DIGEST ANY 3RD WORLD 5.56MM AMMO FED TO IT. THE RIGHTS TO THE EXTERNAL "HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT" FINISH ON THE BARREL IS NOW OWNED BY COLT'S. THESE WERE ORIGINALLY NOT BUILT WITH THE TROY SIGHTS, BUT WITH OLDER DESIGNS WHICH I FEEL THE TROY SIGHTS HAVE ECLIPSED. THE KAC FOREND AND VORTEX ARE CORRECT. I WANTED TO USE A LARUE 7.0, BUT THE GAS BLOCK WOULD NOT WORK WITH IT. A STAG FLAT TOP UPPER RECEIVER WAS USED IN THIS BUILD. WE UPDATED THE CHARGING HANDLE WITH A P.R.I. GAS BUSTER. I'LL BET A NOVESKI KRINK WOULD BE USEFUL ON THIS TO KEEP THE NOISE DOWN, EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD WORK AGAINST THE COMPACT NATURE OF THE PLATFORM. OBVIOUSLY, IT IS SMALL. NOT SO OBVIOUS IS THE FAST CYCLIC RATE. I DID NOT HAVE A TIMER WITH ME, SO I CAN ONLY SPECULATE AS TO WHAT THE RATE OF FIRE ACTUALLY IS. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 11:28:48 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 8/29/2005 11:38:06 AM EDT
[#2]
Cute toy, but is it expected to be any more than that?
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Posted: 8/29/2005 11:41:16 AM EDT
[#3]
Would you like to get hit with a few bursts at CQB distance? 
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Posted: 8/29/2005 11:46:39 AM EDT
[#4]
I didnt say that. But you DO reach a practical point where that level of compactness has a deministhing return in overall usefulness. |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 11:49:49 AM EDT
[#5]
That's what is great about the M16 family. Two pins moved and you can go from a room clearer in a RIFLE caliber, to a precision upper for 300m headshots. If that upper runs 100%, I would happily take it into a row house, or office clearing operation. Your frag range is probably 15-20yds with XM193....that is 45'-60'.... Seems plenty capable in certain realms. I'm certain it would make a good toy too......  |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 12:29:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Stick a Krink ot that thing!
(I've wanted to see a 7.5 with on since I first saw them...) Kick Ass rig!! |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 12:38:06 PM EDT
[#7]
would the gas tube on that thing look like this
 borrowed from brownells.com |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 12:41:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Wes,
Can you elaborate on the "special" gas tube? Any other tricks to make it run beyond what you would do on a 10.5"? The Krink should also help in the reliability department. |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 1:12:30 PM EDT
[#9]
SPECIAL, DIFFERENT, BUT NOT ODD., AS I FIND THE PIGTAIL TO BE. SIMPLY SHORTER.
WHAT DID I DO TO THIS TO MAKE IT RUN? STAG UPPER 7.5" BARREL WITH PROPRIETARY GAS BLOCK AND GAS TUBE KAC M4 FF RAS PRI GAS BUSTER LMT F/A BCG W/ CRANE O-RING VORTEX TROY SIGHTS DEFENSE SOLUTIONS GROUP MAGS LOADED WITH 28 RD OF XM193 THES ARE VERY NICE MAGS, BTW. SUPERIOR TEFLON COATING, WITH MAGPUL FOLLOWERS. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 1:17:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Umm no the frag range is "probably" ZERO yards with XM193....this is 0'-0'.... Seems plenty capable of making 5.45 wound paterns. |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 2:03:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Wes, if you think that the cyclic rate is fast now, wait until you stick a Krink on that little bugger
The Krink seems to speed them up a tad...-Cap'n |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 2:07:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Wishing I lived in a freer state.
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Posted: 8/29/2005 2:18:33 PM EDT
[#13]
That's a SWEET little Bullet Hose
 Incidentally , I ran my 7.5" AR Pistol upper on a board members DIAS Lower , and about 3 mags went through like I fed it ExLax  
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Posted: 8/29/2005 2:19:40 PM EDT
[#14]
I'll let you live in my shop if you'll bring your lathe 
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Posted: 8/29/2005 3:20:24 PM EDT
[#15]
It should be over the 2500fps threshold, or pretty close at that distance. Or did I miscalc? 
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Posted: 8/29/2005 3:32:41 PM EDT
[#16]
I AM BY NO MEANS SUGGESTING THAT THIS UPPER IS THE END-ALL IN COMBAT UPPERS. YOU CAN MAKE AN ARGUEMENT THAT THE 10.5" IS TOO SHORT TO BE EFFECTIVE, AND THIS IS 3" SHORTER, YET.
THIS IS FOR "SPECIAL APPLICATIONS", NOT GENERAL USE IN CQB. I'LL LET THE FOLKS THEY DESIGNED IT FOR DECIDE WHAT ITS PURPOSE IS. ME, I'M JUST AMAZED IT RAN LIKE IT DID. WONDER WHAT IT WOULD DO AT 100 YD WITH MK 262 ??? WES |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 4:20:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Still better then any pistol or pistol caliber subgun regardless of the drop in FPS. |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 4:48:28 PM EDT
[#18]
M2 Corporation used to make these ultra compact uppers, no FF handguard and flip up sights, here are two pics from Military Moron's site (user name and pw are: mm), the first one is 8", the lower one is 6" barrel. www.militarymorons.com/weapons/img/ff5.jpg
www.militarymorons.com/weapons/img/ff6.jpg Click me for more pics :) I like Wes's version better
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Posted: 8/29/2005 5:15:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Damn, Wes, I swear you have 2 of the greatest jobs in the world...
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Posted: 8/29/2005 5:26:36 PM EDT
[#20]
hahaha, someone finally got it right! |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 5:33:49 PM EDT
[#21]
I like it, and I'd buy one if such a thing were possible in the USSA without a wagonload of paperwork.
It seems like about the best possible submachine un, in my opinion. I'd rather have that thing than an MP5. |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 6:50:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Wes,
Very Sweet - me likely Will this be a new MSTN offering? M2 Corp guns (not sure whatever happened to them they dont liek to return emails anymore...)   They run like Ingram/MAC M10/11 series guns. |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 6:51:37 PM EDT
[#23]
Wes, got a website and price for Defense Solutions Group mags? Hate to trouble you, but I can't find them under www.defensesolutionsgroup.com or searching using Google. I like the black-teflon look, and with the Magpuls — even better.
John |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 7:01:09 PM EDT
[#24]
JOHN,
THE MAG IN THE PIC IS NOT ONE OF THEIR MAGS. THE D.S.G. MAGS ARE A SATIN GRAY/BRONZE. THEY CALL IT "GREY TEFLON ANODIZED". DSGINC.COM 817-563-5661 I JUST GOT IN A SHIPMENT OF THE DEFENSE SOLUTIONS GROUP MAGS AND USED THE TESTING OF THIS UPPER TO RUN THEM FOR THE FIRST TIME. I LIKE THE WAY THE CYCLIC RATE ON A FULL MAG DUMP DOESN'T HICCUP OR SPEED UP AS IT OFTEN DOES WITH BLACK AND EVEN WITH GREEN FOLLOWERS. THEY HAVE STAINLESS SPRINGS, TOO, WHICH MIGHT HAVE SPECIAL APPEAL IN SOME ENVIRONMENTS. KEVIN B, WE NEED TO WORK WITH IT SOME MORE. DEFINITE POSSIBILITY, THOUGH, IF THERE IS SUFFICIENT INTEREST. I HAVE ASKED MARK LARUE TO MAKE A SLIGHT CHANGE TO HIS FOREND TO ACCOMODATE THE GAS BLOCK ON THIS LITTLE BEAST. THE SLIMMER LARUE FOREND PROFILE WOULD I THINK BE MUCH MORE APPROPRIATE. WANT ONE?!? WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 7:29:35 PM EDT
[#25]
I gotta come up with some $ for some other items first - I had a buyer back out of something after I had allocated his cash
 .I'd love to add it to my want list though. |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 7:32:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Wes, pics of the barrel and gas block? Please!
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Posted: 8/29/2005 9:06:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Dang.
The closest I could come to getting that would be for a pistol build. Very cool, indeed. WIZZO |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 9:52:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Hey Wes,
What end plate sling mount is that on the shortie? Thanks. |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 10:12:34 PM EDT
[#29]
I'm not Wes - but it is the KAC RECEIVER END PLATE SLING MOUNT WITH HEAVY DUTY QD SWIVEL INCLUDED #24103 - As seen in Wes's Add |
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Posted: 8/29/2005 11:30:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Wes,
Why didn't you use a LMT upper? Should be the same with the feedramnps right? I'm definitely interested in one of these with the larue handguard. More info on the barrel, gas block and gas tube pls. Thanks. |
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Posted: 8/30/2005 9:54:03 AM EDT
[#31]
KAC. QD swivel on each side. |
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Posted: 8/30/2005 10:49:59 AM EDT
[#32]
I wish, but:
seemed pretty clear to me. 
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Posted: 8/30/2005 10:53:04 AM EDT
[#33]
Damn Wes, That is sweet!!!!
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Posted: 8/30/2005 11:45:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Maybe. I didnt read it that way, just in the simplest use of the word. You could be right though. I'm mostly just curious as to how heavy the barrel. |
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Posted: 8/30/2005 12:29:23 PM EDT
[#35]
That would be killer with the rebuildable SEI/Fisher DC can on that Vortex.
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Posted: 8/30/2005 12:35:03 PM EDT
[#36]
Wes, that is sweet! [chuckle]Christians In Action[/chuckle]
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Posted: 9/7/2005 3:51:08 AM EDT
[#37]
 D.S.G. MAGAZINE SHOWN. THE KFH FITS NEATLY INSIDE THE FOREND, AS YOU CAN SEE:  WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Posted: 9/7/2005 8:29:41 AM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 9/7/2005 8:33:15 AM EDT
[#39]
über-über KEWL! Flying Pig on the starboard side?
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Posted: 9/7/2005 2:32:06 PM EDT
[#40]
Wes, do you have an overall length with the LMT collapsed and the KFH on there? Also, how well does the barrel stabilize bullets for suppressed applications?
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Posted: 9/7/2005 3:30:26 PM EDT
[#41]
The Army of Northern Virginia.]/i]
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Posted: 9/7/2005 4:29:01 PM EDT
[#43]
I Likey Likey!
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Posted: 9/7/2005 5:51:22 PM EDT
[#44]
25 5/8".
I NEED TO SHOOT WITH DECENT AMMO AND A SCOPE TO SEE WHAT THE LITTLE BEAST CAN DO. YES, WE HAVE A NVESKI KFH WITH THE FLYING PIG ENBLAZONED ON ONE SIDE. I'M SAVING IT FOR THE RIGHT CUSTOMER. WES |
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