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Posted: 9/21/2004 4:12:22 PM EST
I know from previous posts, that HP (hollowpoint) rounds perform poorly past 35-50 yds from SBR's. At what ranges and how is softpoint amount effective for defensive use out of a short barreled rifle (10 or 11.5")? Will softpoints be more effective at longer ranges? Thanks, Jim
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 5:45:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 11:39:29 AM EST
Troy, Thanks for the excellent info. I did mean OTM rounds not hollowpoints in my original post. The only other question is, if the correct softpoint is selected, then range would be greatly enhanced since velocity isn't as much of a factor, correct? Any idea what the effective range of the 62 or 64gr softpoint ammo would be out of a short 11.5" barrel? TIA Jim
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 3:19:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:34:08 AM EST
Excellent info Troy, thanks again, Jim
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 2:40:42 PM EST
Troy, excellent explaination on the fragmentation. I just read through the ammo oracle too about it.

Answers my question of why I see tiny rips next to my bullet hole at the ranges.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:47:33 PM EST
A soft point will fragment if it is constructed to do so. I won't comment on any of the .223 rounds because I have not experienced it first hand yet, but there are plenty that attest to it. But for example, my cousin (now troy, I know you've heard this before so just bare with me) uses an 80 grain .243 for deer. That fragments definitely. This I've seen on more than one occaision. And when you're the youngest cousin, many times you are left to gut the deer that the older ones didn't want to. Hence, this I have first hand experience with. How far out I don't know but for sure 200 yards and under. But I believe that bullet is meant to be a "varmint" bullet so the walls may be a little thinner than say the 100 grain .243 loading. My cousin said the 100 grain bullet was less devastating and may not fragment. Now the 100 grain bullet probably has a little thicker construction because it is meant as a big game (read deer and such, which I guess is really medium game) bullet. In my opinion, which pretty much coincides with what troy is saying, is if you had a bullet in the heavy range for the caliber and thin walled construction, you get the best of both worlds. Hence the success of the 75,77 grain .223 bullets. Alot of the hornady amax bullets would probably fall into this category. They are heavy for better ballistic coefficient for competition shooting, yet would expand and fragment because of the ballistic tip and thinner wall. Like the 75 grain .223 remington or the 105 grain .243 or the coveted 155 .308. I believe the brouhaha would attest to the devestation of the 155 .308 amax. Take it for what it's worth.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:31:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:03:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:
The general rule is:

<snip>

- Softpoints generally give more penetration than hollowpoints, but you have to check each load, as some still don't give enough (less than 12") or give too much (over 18") for defensive use. They use controlled expansion to assist wounding, which makes a smaller but predictable wound profile, and is still working at longer ranges/lower velocities. This is usually the choice for hunting medium and medium-large animals, because it doesn't do as much hide or meat damage, and because in many states, SPs are the only ammo that's allowed.

<snip>

- It has been found that match hollow-points (often referred to as OTM or Open-Tip Match for political correctness) fragment very well in many cases. This is not in any way related to the hollow cavity at the tip, as unlike standard hollowpoints that expand, OTM bullets do NOT expand. But, if the velocity is high enough, they WILL fragment. Further, it has been found that longer, heavier bullets typically not only make larger wounds, but that their fragmentation threshold is lower, so often fragmentation range is increased compared to other types of bullets. Most of the best defensive rounds use heavy match/OTM bullets.

<snip>

-Troy



So inside 100yds, which would be more effective on a deer? The 64gr. SP by Winchester or Federal, or the 68gr. OTM by Black Hills? 16" barrel, mind you, so velocity is reduced, but not as much as a SBR.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:54:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 9:34:48 AM EST
The other thing to consider is barrier penetration. Controlled expansion softpoints will perform much better on auto glass or auto bodies than OTM.

Even when considering just an anti-personnel scenario, IIRC one of the test protocols for the 6.8 SPC was to hang a loaded magazine in front of the gelatin to test penetartion and wounding profiles. The idea was to simulate someone carrying spare ammo in mags or bandoliers. From what I hear, 5.56 OTM performance drops significantly when having to deal with such a barrier and that was one of the areas 6.8 was supposed to improve upon.

Troy/Brouhaha, please chime in to affirm or correct anything I've said here.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 10:08:19 AM EST
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