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Posted: 3/8/2014 7:15:10 AM EDT
Hello!

I have a fairly odd situation.  I have a SIG M400 and have installed a set of KNS anti-roll pins (with the "standard" outer connecting pieces, not the "skinny" ones).  The problem I'm having is that SIG stamps the serial number on the lower receiver in such a place that the first 3-4 digits/letters are covered by the KNS anti roll pin parts.  I'm assuming that is a fairly big "no no" but I have been searching around and cannot find anyone having (admitting/realizing?) this dilemma.  From what I have measured, the "skinny" connecting pieces would still obscure the first digit or so.

I assume the practical "cover my ass" solution is to remove the KNS pins and go back to the factory SIG parts.  If that's the general consensus of you guys as well then, well, I guess I'll find a new home for the KNS pins.

Thank you very much for your guidance.

JD
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 7:19:31 AM EDT
[#1]
It's no different than shotgun side saddles blocking the serial number from shotguns. I think you are find as long as they are not permanently altered or covered up.

And in before the anti-KNS haters.
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 7:21:54 AM EDT
[#2]
I don't like the pins in general but it's not like You grinded them off the lower.
I have never had anyone look that close at My lower or had LEO check the numbers.
I would not worry about it.
Worst case carry the tools to remove them in Your range bag.
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 7:26:35 AM EDT
[#3]
You're fine! Move out with your cack out, and go shoot the shit out of something..
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 9:09:15 AM EDT
[#4]
Well I feel a little better about it now.  

I've had them on for about a year now and finally remembered to ask some folks at the range (and on here). I have looked at every rifle I come across with the KNS pins and it seems no other company stamps their serial in that exact spot.  Most of the guys at the range had about the same opinion as you guys and weren't too concerned since, as y'all mentioned, the serial itself isn't actually tampered with.  A couple of guys did say the "skinny" type pins might be better since with those the full serial would be much more legible, although just barely.  And yes... I have had a few comments from folks saying "you don't really need those things" and I'll say I'm inclined to agree with that - especially with my drop-in trigger and since it's not a "fun switch" priceless receiver. But the pins did come off another rifle I sold a while back and were just sitting in my "boom boom tool box" so I couldn't just let them sit in there  

I certainly don't shoot enough to be worried about receiver wear, I guess I mostly enjoy the finger rest they provide when my finger is off the trigger.
I suppose I'll think on it a while longer.

Thanks, fellas!
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 9:28:21 AM EDT
[#5]
One of the silliest questions I have ever heard.  
Make sure to stay away from magwell grips op, thems prison material derp derp doing



Link Posted: 3/8/2014 10:07:14 AM EDT
[#6]
Ditch the KNS pins. The M400 is a beautiful carbine. Don't screw it up by attaching every single "tactical" add-on you can get your hands on. If KNS pins were necessary, don't you think the military would be running them? If they were too expensive or conflicted armorer doctrine, wouldn't you at least see them on all of the SOF guns in units that have approved leedway for such modifications? If a SEAL team member has a pin walk out during a mission, he immediately becomes a critical liability. They are shooting full auto and put more rounds down range in a month than you would probably shoot in two lifetimes. Would it not stand to reason that the team armorers would safeguard against this possibility by installing KNS anti-walk pins in all of these highly used weapons?



I'm just trying to provide you with a logical path to follow. If the dudes that actually go around kicking doors in don't use them, why does "Joe Civilian" feel the need to run them? Are you just adding parts for the sake of BRD?
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 11:03:30 AM EDT
[#7]
If trigger is installed correctly the only walking that should be done is you selling the bling and walking to the lgs to buy some ammo.
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 11:50:12 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

If the dudes that actually go around kicking doors in don't use them, why does "Joe Civilian" feel the need to run them?
View Quote


I've kicked a few doors down over the last three decades and I DO have them on my Duty Carbine.

CHEAP insurance.

And the funny thing is, you see numerous posts about pins walking (and most are probably due to botched installs) and quite a few about hammer pins breaking on 9mm & .22 LR  AR's. But, I can't recall a single post about a major problem with KNS Pins!
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 2:07:01 PM EDT
[#9]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've kicked a few doors down over the last three decades and I DO have them on my Duty Carbine.





CHEAP insurance.





And the funny thing is, you see numerous posts about pins walking (and most are probably due to botched installs) and quite a few about hammer pins breaking on 9mm & .22 LR  AR's. But, I can't recall a single post about a major problem with KNS Pins!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





Quoted:





If the dudes that actually go around kicking doors in don't use them, why does "Joe Civilian" feel the need to run them?








I've kicked a few doors down over the last three decades and I DO have them on my Duty Carbine.





CHEAP insurance.





And the funny thing is, you see numerous posts about pins walking (and most are probably due to botched installs) and quite a few about hammer pins breaking on 9mm & .22 LR  AR's. But, I can't recall a single post about a major problem with KNS Pins!
You ran them as a Mil door kicker? I have seen them installed on multiple LEO door kicker carbines but then again I have also seen some straight up retarded LEO setups where the user had to purchase (due to funding issues within the Dept.) their own M4 style gun and as a result, they were given a lot of leeway as to what they put on/in it.

 






Not saying your setup is bad or that you don't know what you are doing. Just that in LEO, I have seem some atrocities.







As for .22LR and 9mm... I have no issues with people running them as these a variants of the M4 platform and as such, have different mechanics, forces, and  parts in play.







That said, I still stand by the logic that if an organization like DEVGRU (for example) doesn't run them when they have the means, leeway, expertise, operational tempo, etc., then they:







A. are incompetent b/c it is such an inexpensive, easy to install, and potentially life-saving mod.


B. see some of the merits but decided against installing them b/c it has the potential to mask an incorrect FCG install.


C. Smart enough to know that they don't fix anything.

 
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 4:22:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You ran them as a Mil door kicker? I have seen them installed on multiple LEO door kicker carbines but then again I have also seen some straight up retarded LEO setups where the user had to purchase (due to funding issues within the Dept.) their own M4 style gun and as a result, they were given a lot of leeway as to what they put on/in it.    

Not saying your setup is bad or that you don't know what you are doing. Just that in LEO, I have seem some atrocities.

As for .22LR and 9mm... I have no issues with people running them as these a variants of the M4 platform and as such, have different mechanics, forces, and  parts in play.

That said, I still stand by the logic that if an organization like DEVGRU (for example) doesn't run them when they have the means, leeway, expertise, operational tempo, etc., then they:

A. are incompetent b/c it is such an inexpensive, easy to install, and potentially life-saving mod.
B. see some of the merits but decided against installing them b/c it has the potential to mask an incorrect FCG install.
C. Smart enough to know that they don't fix anything.
 
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

If the dudes that actually go around kicking doors in don't use them, why does "Joe Civilian" feel the need to run them?


I've kicked a few doors down over the last three decades and I DO have them on my Duty Carbine.

CHEAP insurance.

And the funny thing is, you see numerous posts about pins walking (and most are probably due to botched installs) and quite a few about hammer pins breaking on 9mm & .22 LR  AR's. But, I can't recall a single post about a major problem with KNS Pins!
You ran them as a Mil door kicker? I have seen them installed on multiple LEO door kicker carbines but then again I have also seen some straight up retarded LEO setups where the user had to purchase (due to funding issues within the Dept.) their own M4 style gun and as a result, they were given a lot of leeway as to what they put on/in it.    

Not saying your setup is bad or that you don't know what you are doing. Just that in LEO, I have seem some atrocities.

As for .22LR and 9mm... I have no issues with people running them as these a variants of the M4 platform and as such, have different mechanics, forces, and  parts in play.

That said, I still stand by the logic that if an organization like DEVGRU (for example) doesn't run them when they have the means, leeway, expertise, operational tempo, etc., then they:

A. are incompetent b/c it is such an inexpensive, easy to install, and potentially life-saving mod.
B. see some of the merits but decided against installing them b/c it has the potential to mask an incorrect FCG install.
C. Smart enough to know that they don't fix anything.
 


Been a "Cop" for 32 years.
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 4:57:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
But, I can't recall a single post about a major problem with KNS Pins!
View Quote

I have seen a TON of threads saying..." Just installed KNS pins and now My trigger won't reset"
or " the disconnector is hanging"
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 5:21:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Yet another thread turned into an anti-KNS thread. Wow.
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 5:22:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Woah. Calm down.

I'm not very tacticool-oriented.  It's just an M400 hunter with the 20" heavy barrel and a Timney trigger with an ACS buttstock and a boresnake in the grip storage.  I use it to kill paper and the odd ground varmint.

The only real REASON I installed the pins, like I mentioned before, is because I really like the finger rest/shelf they provide when I'm off the trigger.  Terrible reason? Maybe.  I pulled them off a rifle I sold and I swapped the pins to this one.

Sorry to piss in the proverbial cheerios.
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 5:34:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I've kicked a few doors down over the last three decades and I DO have them on my Duty Carbine.

CHEAP insurance.


And the funny thing is, you see numerous posts about pins walking (and most are probably due to botched installs) and quite a few about hammer pins breaking on 9mm & .22 LR  AR's. But, I can't recall a single post about a major problem with KNS Pins!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

If the dudes that actually go around kicking doors in don't use them, why does "Joe Civilian" feel the need to run them?


I've kicked a few doors down over the last three decades and I DO have them on my Duty Carbine.

CHEAP insurance.


And the funny thing is, you see numerous posts about pins walking (and most are probably due to botched installs) and quite a few about hammer pins breaking on 9mm & .22 LR  AR's. But, I can't recall a single post about a major problem with KNS Pins!


Agreed, agreed and agreed.

I see no harm in using them.  I don't necessarily advocate buying them right off the bat if your looking to improve a base model AR.  I do think that that money is better spent on a better trigger, selector, ammo, etc.  But when you have a couple k(or more) into a rifle, it's not hard to justify throwing another $30 at it, especially if the rifle fills a duty role, whether at home or on watch.

Link Posted: 3/8/2014 5:44:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yet another thread turned into an anti-KNS thread. Wow.
View Quote


Agreed, OP asked a question, OP got the answer.
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 6:27:42 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I've kicked a few doors down over the last three decades and I DO have them on my Duty Carbine.

CHEAP insurance.

And the funny thing is, you see numerous posts about pins walking (and most are probably due to botched installs) and quite a few about hammer pins breaking on 9mm & .22 LR  AR's. But, I can't recall a single post about a major problem with KNS Pins!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

If the dudes that actually go around kicking doors in don't use them, why does "Joe Civilian" feel the need to run them?


I've kicked a few doors down over the last three decades and I DO have them on my Duty Carbine.

CHEAP insurance.

And the funny thing is, you see numerous posts about pins walking (and most are probably due to botched installs) and quite a few about hammer pins breaking on 9mm & .22 LR  AR's. But, I can't recall a single post about a major problem with KNS Pins!

Read this about G triggers and KNS pins - bad idea!
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 6:36:40 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

If the dudes that actually go around kicking doors in don't use them, why does "Joe Civilian" feel the need to run them?


I've kicked a few doors down over the last three decades and I DO have them on my Duty Carbine.

CHEAP insurance.

And the funny thing is, you see numerous posts about pins walking (and most are probably due to botched installs) and quite a few about hammer pins breaking on 9mm & .22 LR  AR's. But, I can't recall a single post about a major problem with KNS Pins!

Read this about G triggers and KNS pins - bad idea!


KNS will be offering pins spec'd by Bill Geissele in the near future.

Link Posted: 3/8/2014 6:47:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


KNS will be offering pins spec'd by Bill Geissele in the near future.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

If the dudes that actually go around kicking doors in don't use them, why does "Joe Civilian" feel the need to run them?


I've kicked a few doors down over the last three decades and I DO have them on my Duty Carbine.

CHEAP insurance.

And the funny thing is, you see numerous posts about pins walking (and most are probably due to botched installs) and quite a few about hammer pins breaking on 9mm & .22 LR  AR's. But, I can't recall a single post about a major problem with KNS Pins!

Read this about G triggers and KNS pins - bad idea!


KNS will be offering pins spec'd by Bill Geissele in the near future.



Of course! They need to in order for their product to survive. But for those who want the real solution to your walking pins problem here's Free advice
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 6:48:04 PM EDT
[#19]
I am only butthurt because I did not invent them
Link Posted: 3/8/2014 6:59:37 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

If the dudes that actually go around kicking doors in don't use them, why does "Joe Civilian" feel the need to run them?


I've kicked a few doors down over the last three decades and I DO have them on my Duty Carbine.

CHEAP insurance.

And the funny thing is, you see numerous posts about pins walking (and most are probably due to botched installs) and quite a few about hammer pins breaking on 9mm & .22 LR  AR's. But, I can't recall a single post about a major problem with KNS Pins!

Read this about G triggers and KNS pins - bad idea!


This only mentions the SSA trigger system. Not ALL trigger systems. Has anyone other than ADCO(If they even did) actually measured a set of KNS pins? I have two sets of Geissele pins, and two sets of KNS pins, and from what my mic says, they all measure exactly the same!

But the biggest reason is that the KNS pins are soft. Sometimes when they are installed they pull up a burr that causes havoc with trigger operation.

I'd like to know how they know the KNS pins are softer. Did they do a Rockwell hardness test on them? I highly doubt it! What the hell does "Pull up a burr" even mean? I say BS!

As mentioned in another thread; The only difference that I see is the Geissele pins are blued, and the KNS pins are not.

I do have to agree, though. They aren't something that is needed by any means. Unless of course you think they look cool, and in that case, by all means. In an entire decade, of which 38 months were in Iraq. I never once saw a pair of pins "walk" on any weapon system. 10's, of 1000's of rounds down range.

ETA: I have seen friends tighten the screws too tight. Which will make the trigger system bind up. Unless your lower is thinner than the pins are long.
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