Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
User Panel

Page AR-15 » Ammunition
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Site Notices
Posted: 5/2/2003 5:17:15 AM EDT
Okay,I'm a newbie and unlike some of you I am unable to buy my ammo by the pallet!ht1,200 rounds of IMI M855 for $280.00(less if on sale) or 1,000 rounds of Black Hills 75gr remanufactured non-moly for $356.00?
It would be used in a Colt MT6400c(16",1/7twist)Please keep in mind this will be stored long term for a day I hope never comes, not for plinking.
Thanks, Timdog
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 5:24:43 AM EDT
Provided that your rifle likes it and shoots it's best groups with it, I'd choose the 75grn.

I pick my SHTF ammo to store based on "what shoots best" in my rifles, no reason not to do the same.

Welcome to the site,
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 6:38:56 AM EDT
For SHTF, my choice is M193 because

- Available in large quantities
- Good performance versus Cost inside "self-defense" ranges (under 300 yards)
- Works with all barrel twists
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 7:24:22 AM EDT
You forgot to say "Cheap"!

M193 costs $150 per case of 1000.
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 7:26:09 AM EDT
I understand the value of the M193 round as far as availabilty,cost and versatility but I am going to buy either M855 or the Black Hills for specific use with the 16" barrel,1/7 twist so I am only looking for the "Best" choice for this rifle.I want the round to be accurate and dependable for a variety of scenarios.
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 7:49:43 AM EDT
For about the same cost I would rather have 2,000 rds of M193 than 1,000 rds of BH for SHTF, because you can go through ammo real fast under stress.  M193 groups well in my 1/9 Bushy, and I agree that you should choose based on what is accurate in your rifle.  

I also keep one bandoleer each of IMI M855 and Federal 69 gr Match (these two are the most accurate in my Bushy) for extended range use with my SHTF stock and practice regularly with all three.  When I first started I only kept 2 bandoleers of M193 for emergencies [rolleyes]  Welcome aboard!

Oops, I started this before your last post.  If BH 75's shoot well for you, that is the most effective of the two rounds has has a longer fragmentaion range.  Many posts on this new choice for use in Afganistan, etc.
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 8:03:59 AM EDT
Yes I would get M193 too. I think I will spend ammo real fast under the stress...

...and as said in Ammo-oracle, if it is over 300 yards the mission becomes to avoid not to engage.

Then of course, if you were pinned down from long distance, I would get accurate bolt or semiauto 308 with medium magnified scope (3x to 6x). Don't ask too much for 5.56mm under stress.
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 8:24:18 AM EDT
Get the 75 grain ammo but there is a 3D remanufactured Hornady Match which is cheaper than the Black Hills Blue box stuff.  It has been mentiponed in this forum in the last 3 months so do a search to find the source  since I cant think of it off the top of my head.  The M193 advocates are forgetting that not only does the 75 grain pill fragment at much longer ranges it has MUCH greater fragmentation and wounding capabililties at ALL ranges as well as being a Sub MOA match grade performer.

There is NO reason to get the M855 ammo.  If you want better barrier penetration get the 62 or 55 grain Federal torphy bonded bear claw ammo or the Federal Tactical police ammo (same bullet) its the best ammo for punching through auto glass, car doors etc and still expanding well and penetrating deep enough.  M193, M855 and the 75 grain round will all break up after passing through a hard barrier and will not provide adequate penetration after passing through barriers.  The 75 grain ammo or even the M193 will be better on soft targets though.  Remeber the M855 was designed to punch through a steel helmet and had no other design criteria when developed.

I'd get about 500-1000 rounds of the 75 grain remanufactured and use about 50-100 rounds of it to test function and accuracy and external ballistics.  Id get about 200 rounds of the Federal ammo and test 50 rounds of it for the same purpose and keep the rest as a "shooting people in cars" ammo.  Put a colored magpul or tape on the barrier ammo so you can identify it in a hurry and swap if it is needed.

The rest of your ammo should be M193 stuff for use at 50-100 yards and under CQB training and for use as additional ammo should the SHTF and your main ammo supply run out.  At close range the poor accuracy of M193 (relatively speaking)and its different ballistics wont matter at all for training or plinking and if you have to tap into it as a SHTF ammo because the other ammo is used up you will likely be in a VERY bad position anyway and will be scrounging ammo off dead people.

This is just IMHO and other opinions vary.  I say take advantage of the 1/7 twist of your Colt and use the best ammo you can.  You spent the extra bucks for a Colt, spend the extra bucks for the best ammo.
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 12:31:18 PM EDT
Thanks Devl!
As usuall your advice makes good common sense.
I'll get some 75gr for my main load and sprinkle in some tactical and m193 for options.
Some day I'll have the right rifle and ammo for every possible scenario but until then its best to get the best ammo for the rifle I do own!
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 12:33:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 1:01:21 PM EDT
Until I hear a Bit more about the 75gr bullet I would stick with M193 or M855! Chance are better that on the battle field you would find M193 or M855/SS109 more than the 75grBH! then change zero? Find out wich shoots better then go for it!!
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 2:31:22 PM EDT
First off he isn't going on a battlefield.  He's looking for ammo for an extream situation (the LA Riots come to mind as a SHTF kind of scenario where a rifle would be REALLY useful).  So he doesn't have to worry about what's on the 'battlefield'.

Secondly even if he did put in a magazine of M193/M855 (instead of the 75gr for which his rifle is zeroed) how far off do you think he will be?  If you're using the Santose IBSZ you'll still be able to hit a standard target (20"x40") out to 200m.  Its not like he'll be looking to win a match.

You have the same issue when switching from 55gr to 62gr w/o zeroing.  No its not 'optimal', but in a 'Oh $H!T' situation and somebody passes you a magazine of different ammo I doubt you would notice.
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 4:29:08 PM EDT
So the consensus seem to be -

1.First get that damned 1:7 twist
2.Use whatever you want


Gotta postpone AR10A4 project...
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 6:37:22 PM EDT
Whats the difference in point of impact between 75gr and 55gr M193 for those of us going ACOG?
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 6:35:32 PM EDT
It is listed in the tacked thread in the optics forum.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 3:15:32 PM EDT
I stand corrected! Forest does know his shit!

When I think of SHTF I dont think of RIOTS!!
I think of INVASION !! There for the battle field picking upings!
Page AR-15 » Ammunition
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.

By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top