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Posted: 2/22/2007 6:52:15 PM EST
Can a registared lower have more than one short barreled upper?

Like can I have a 11.5 inch upper and a short barreled 9mm or 22 upper all on one lower?
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 6:54:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 6:58:59 PM EST by GA-Dawg]
It has to be registered for all those calibers.

Edit to add: I'm not sure about the actual legality of the multiple uppers being owned at once. Most have said that owning multiple uppers and owning another non-SBR lower could be interpreted as intent to create an illegal SBR. Doesn't make sense to me, but most of the BATFE rules don't either. Seems to me that if you list the shortest barrel that you could possible build it as then ALL lengths above that would be fine. Not sure though.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 7:03:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 7:08:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 7:12:39 PM EST by Homeinvader]

Originally Posted By cmd1522:
Can a registared lower have more than one short barreled upper?

Like can I have a 11.5 inch upper and a short barreled 9mm or 22 upper all on one lower?


Absolutely. You do not need to register multiple calibers or barrel lengths, this is a myth. A registered SBR is an SBR in ANY caliber. The Form 1 asks for caliber to cover weapons that do not readily allow for caliber conversions, your entry here it is not binding.

It is assumed that on AR-type lowers you will be changing calibers and barrel lengths. ATF asks (it is not a requirement) that you notify them of permanent changes to barrel length only.
Link Posted: 2/27/2007 8:09:07 AM EST
Thanks for the info.

I really want to go with a good sbr, but also want to make a 22 version too. Ammo is just getting to expensive.
Link Posted: 2/27/2007 8:20:19 AM EST
I have been here for years now, I can say it now...................

please include that info when you send in your paper work.

Dont want BATF agents killing your dog now, shall we?

Chances are...............................................................................................nothing or nobody will ever come over to knock your door.....................

.......................but, we dont want an arfcommer to be accused of illegal weapons charges do we?

please include those calibers and barrel sizes on that form 1................okay?



keep it safe guys, thanx
Link Posted: 2/27/2007 8:22:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/27/2007 8:23:47 AM EST by DK-Prof]

IIRC, they used to accept "multiple" (for caliber) and "<26" for barrel length, but now they want more specificity
Link Posted: 2/27/2007 9:19:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
IIRC, they used to accept "multiple" (for caliber) and "<26" for barrel length, but now they want more specificity


It is my understanding that they are only accepting Form 1's with 1 barrel length and 1 caliber listed. Once it is approved you send in a letter stating that the registered SBR will also be used with such and such length barrels and calibers.
Link Posted: 2/27/2007 9:37:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By ThePrepared_com:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
IIRC, they used to accept "multiple" (for caliber) and "<26" for barrel length, but now they want more specificity


It is my understanding that they are only accepting Form 1's with 1 barrel length and 1 caliber listed. Once it is approved you send in a letter stating that the registered SBR will also be used with such and such length barrels and calibers.


I think that is definitely the way to play it safe. You don't want to extend the already long time processing a Form 1 (especially the non-corporate) can take by having them send it back.

Link Posted: 2/27/2007 10:07:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/27/2007 11:06:51 AM EST by Homeinvader]
There is "playing it safe" and then there is "getting in the way." Driving 35 on the freeway might seem safe to some, but they don't realize the burden places on others.

Adding too much info to the Form 1 is another case in point. It is providing information contrary to what is being asked, ties up limited resources to fix and hence slows down the process for everyone:

Look carefully at what is in front of you, a Form 1 "Application To Make And Register A Firearm". It is NOT an "Application To Make And Register A Firearm...and For Its Continued Use Thereafter." Since the laws of physics prevent one from actually making a firearm in more than one caliber with more than one barrel length and more than one OAL, anything more than a single, specific entry for these fields is not only unnecessary, it's completely outside the context of the application.

NFA Branch is only interested in the configuration in which it is initially intended to be built, NOT all the possible iterations you may or may not use.

For example:

Caliber: .223
Barrel Length: 10"

This will ensure a clean, succinct Form 1 that won't be returned at least for reasons of clarity. The approved Form 1 means you have been approved to build and possess an SBR, not just a 10" .223 SBR.
Link Posted: 2/27/2007 4:01:42 PM EST
This always seems to come up. Think about it. When you register your lower receiver and pay the tax, then you cannot be in violation of the "law" if you have a different caliber on it or a different length of barrel from the paperwork. ATF could tell you to file paperwork because they prefer you to do that, but you are not breaking any law because you paid the tax on it and are in legal possession of the lower receiver. Most inspections of your paperwork will be by Johnny Law, and he will want to see paperwork and check the serial number. He is not going to get a cleaning rod and stick it in your barrel to make sure the length of the barrel coincides with your paperwork. He is not going to inspect the diameter of the hole in your barrel to make sure the caliber is the same. ATF agents know that you are not in violation of the law, so they are not going to do anything. I had a Class III friend of mine who got a compliance check and had a bunch of M11/9's. The paperwork he had for each matched the serial number on the box, but no inspector had ever had him remove the SMG's to check to see if the serial numbers on the paperwork matched the serial numbers on the SMG's. Well, low and behold, he got inspected and one of the guns did not match the serial number on the paperwork, but the serial number on the box matched the paperwork. So, what do you think the inspector did? Arrest him for illegal possession? Confiscate his firearm? Neither, because he had paid his SOT tax and it was obvious that this was simply a problem with the number on the paperwork. So, the inspector told him to get in touch with ATF and get the numbers changed so the serial number on the gun matched the srial number on the paperwork. I had a compliance check today. They had me listed as owning several weapons that I had transferred. The inspector asked to see the paperwork showing the transfer to the other dealers, and I explained that although I knew a lot of people saved copies of the paperwork showing the transfer, I had never done it, and I had never been told to do it. The inspector said he had never known a dealer to not do this. So, what did he do? He told me he would not cite me for not doing this, and he could not tell me to do it, but he thought it was a good idea to do it to have proof that ATF had approved the transfer. So, I passed with flying colors. Why? Because I did not break a law. So, when you have a registered lower receiver that you paid the tax on, you are not breaking the law by having different calibers and different lengths. What ATF has said is that if you "permanently" alter a weapon so it is different from the paperwork, then you need to amend it. But, with AR15 SBR's you are not permanently altering them by putting different barrel lengths or different calibers. We need to understand the difference between breaking the law and not following a nebulous regulation that ATF does not even know how to interpret. As stated, when you file a Form 1, you better not say you are manufacturing a weapon that simultaneously has different barrel lengths and calibers all at the same time. Then you do not need to file anything else after that since you are in legal possession of the weapon and have not broken any law.

Charles Tatum
Alamo Professional Arms
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