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Posted: 1/24/2007 4:26:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2007 4:26:03 PM EDT by Hokie]


Alright....Jason from BigDawg Tactical hooked me up with this rig and it arrived today. I immediately took it to the range for some testin'.

First off I've owned TA31's, TA11's, Compact ACOG's, Aimpoints, EoTechs, and a few variable scopes in between. I recently decided to 'dumb down' my AR's to make them SHTF ready, rugged, and obnoxiously easy to use. Flip the safety to "fire" and go. Given the TA33R8's BDC feature, BAC feature, chevron reticule, and overall lightweight construction, THIS is the only magnified optic for me! It's like a TA31 hooked up with a TA50 one wild saucy night and conceived an illegitimate child!

Construction wise, it's built like any other ACOG is - rugged. The front portion of the ACOG is what looks to be an added component, but it dubbin' around with it - it's certainly far from fragile and looks to be fastened in a way that will allow the ACOG to uphold Trijicon's reputation for bombproof glass. The dials are easy to reach and adjust. The fiber optic tube is standard - no cracks. The Larue Mount is as you'd imagine the soulmate for ACOG's and this one's no different.

The eye relief on this scope is in my opinion the largest benefit. I shoot NTC and the smaller FOV (19.3 at 100) makes the BAC real easy to use. I also find the smaller FOV, eye relief, and overall small diameter of this ACOG to be REAL nice in keeping the sight picture concise and my surroundings unobstructed. Comparatively, the TA11 now seems WAY too heavy and the TA31 feels like my eyeball has to molest the scope from 1.5" out to maintain a sight picture. The small overall size and extra 0.4" of eye relief makes all the difference in the world. I'm now spoiled.

At first I was hesitant about the smaller FOV but now that I've tried it out - I completely get it. This scope is SO much easier and I can see myself being 'faster' with this ACOG than I could be with any other. Beyond that, I'm sure the BDC feature will prove itself useful and entertaining when time permits.

At 3X30, the magnification is supreme for Minute of Man shooting and my eyes adjust quickly using the BAC. The glass is perfect as you'd expect from Trijicon. For testing I used a different lower than pictured...one with a Geissele trigger so right off my 3 shot groups were 1.5MOA using 62gr SS109. This gun shoots 1/2 MOA easy so I just need to spend more than 1 box of ammo and practice some.

Other than that - I'm very thankful Trijicon made this scope. It's a perfect blend of precision and speed. It's eye relief, size, and FOV make for a fast & compact general purpose optic. For 10-300 yard shooting, this is in my opinion, the perfect ACOG. For shooting under 10 yards, it seems like it'd serve me well - I may toss some Bulter Creek Flip Caps on this one for an occluded option since the construction will allow for it! Plus, the caps will make the ACOG Scope Coat a thing of the past.

Something always kept me from hanging onto an ACOG. I feel the TA33R8 was made just for me!

If you're looking for an ACOG - don't overlook this guy. It is in my opinion the ultimate 10-300 yard SHTF ACOG for a 14.5"- 16" AR15. It's truly an amazing piece of glass.

Link Posted: 1/24/2007 5:02:09 PM EDT
Dammit! The only bad thing is you didn't order me one...

Thanks for the reveiw!
Link Posted: 1/24/2007 5:02:29 PM EDT
Looks like another winner from Trijicon!

BTW, how much was it?
Link Posted: 1/24/2007 5:14:19 PM EDT
I paid $850 for the ACOG/Larue combo. The service from BigDawg was supreme.

I'm trying to get a reticule picture now....that's hard to do!
Link Posted: 1/24/2007 7:31:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2007 7:32:21 PM EDT by BigDawg308]
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 4:30:53 AM EDT


Truth is, I'm a little suprised you sold it to me! This is why I could probably never start a business within the firearms industry! lol....
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 5:33:15 AM EDT
I have owned a 1.5x and 3x compact ACOG. They were nice but I always wished they had the BDC reticle on the TA31 series. Plus they both had amber reticules which I never learned to like. Both my TA31s have the Precision Reflex covers. Nice that this compact ACOG can use regular Butler Creek covers. I think I need to try one out. Maybe I'll sell my Tripower to help fund this.



Link Posted: 1/25/2007 8:11:17 AM EDT
Howdy Hokie!

I'm curious how, as you say "the smaller FOV (19.3 at 100) makes the BAC real easy to use."
Why is that? Does that mean the chevron fills more of your sight picture?
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 9:12:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2007 9:18:31 AM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By CA2VAyay:
Howdy Hokie!

I'm curious how, as you say "the smaller FOV (19.3 at 100) makes the BAC real easy to use."
Why is that? Does that mean the chevron fills more of your sight picture?


Sorta...in moving side to side on multiple targets with both eyes open, the smaller FOV (for me) makes the target 'appear' directly in front of the chevron as there's less space in the sight picture and that seems to make it easier (faster) to center the target with the ACOG. At first I thought it was the 3X magnification that made it easier to adjust my right eye. However after a few shots (I set up two targets 30 feet apart) I noticed it's the smaller FOV in addition to the 3X that makes the target 'appear' right away in front of the chevron. It's hard to explain and I might not be doing the best job at explaining the BAC...but the smaller FOV definately speeds up the target acquisition. With regards to the BAC, I think the overall small diameter of the ACOG keeps the surrounding area easy to move over using your left eye, thus making the quick switch focus that much easier. The small FOV, overall compactness of the scope, the generous eye relief, and 3X aid in that.

So you're right, but I think it's a few factors contributing to what I'm calling a distinct advantage with the TA33R8 ACOG. If I spoke in circles please forgive me. I'm not the best technical writer!

To expand on this, from the perspective of a right handed person, the TA33R8 gives the shooter's left eye a little more control than other ACOG models do. This in addition the features highlighted above, make for a fast optic as it (again, IMHO) gives the shooter a better balance in switching your focus while employing the bindon aiming concept.

To bottom line it - this ACOG is a TA11F - only smaller, lighter, and less expensive! At only 1X less than a TA31, I think the overall value of this ACOG is second to none. Definately a prime example of ACOG evolution!
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 9:20:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 9:59:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sovereign:
Did you ever buy a TA11? ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=309840


Had a TA11D in 2002, sold it. In my then green-view of the AR scene - I had the scope on a carry handle and hated it. I liked the eye relief but didn't like the bulk atop a 16" CAR. Recently, I was looking for a TA11F to mount to a different 16" middy of mine, with a FSB. I was all set on buying one (hence that ad) until I stumbled upon the TA33. The TA11 is still awesome, but I think the TA33 trumps it on almost every level. Only advantage of the TA11 has now is 0.5X more magnification.
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 10:30:07 AM EDT
Some more pics from today. Me drawing down on my shed. I installed a Geissele trigger in this lower and am awaiting a Magpul QD attachment so I can install a Blue Force Gear Vicker's sling to complete this build. I'll be heading to the range this weekend to hone the ACOG's POI using Hornaday 75grain Red Box 5.56 TAP.





Link Posted: 1/25/2007 10:33:17 AM EDT
and yes I know I did a crappy job shoveling off my deck.
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 10:57:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2007 10:58:38 AM EDT by akxx]
height=8
Originally Posted By Hokie:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/Hokie1850/DSC01286.jpg


Wow--great sight picture photo.

For the less informed among us, can you give us some more details of your upper configuration?
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 11:18:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By akxx:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/Hokie1850/DSC01286.jpg


Wow--great sight picture photo.

For the less informed among us, can you give us some more details of your upper configuration?


No problem:

16" GTS Recon Barrel (1:7 twist, mid-length, chrome-lined, stainless, .740 profile to the gas block - .750 thereafter, matching bolt, wylde chamber) *best barrel I've ever owned anyway
YHM Phantom 5C2
PRI lo-pro gas block
Daniel Defense 12.0 w/ Magpul ladders
Bushmaster upper/lower
Troy front & rear BUIS
PRI gas buster charging handle
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 11:24:32 AM EDT
Specs on the TA33R8:

Magnification: 3X
Objective lens: 30mm
Eye Relief: 1.9 (TA11 is 2.4, TA31 is 1.5)
Exit Pupil: 10mm
FOV (degrees): 3.7
Length: 6.1" (TA11 is 8.0, TA31 is 5.8)
Weight: 6.94oz (TA11 is 14.0, TA31 is 9.9)
FOV (feet): 19.3 at 100 yards (TA11 is 28.9, TA31 is 36.8)
Adjustments: 4 clicks/inch at 100 yards
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 11:34:07 AM EDT
Very cool.
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 12:30:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2007 12:30:51 PM EDT by akxx]
height=8
Originally Posted By Hokie:
16" GTS Recon Barrel (1:7 twist, mid-length, chrome-lined, stainless, .740 profile to the gas block - .750 thereafter, matching bolt, wylde chamber) *best barrel I've ever owned anyway
YHM Phantom 5C2
PRI lo-pro gas block
Daniel Defense 12.0 w/ Magpul ladders
Bushmaster upper/lower
Troy front & rear BUIS
PRI gas buster charging handle


Awesome setup.

I *thought* that looked like Denny's RECON barrel in a matte-blasted finish. So the chrome-lined SS is the latest variant, right? What kind of "shooting for accuracy" groups do you get with that beast?
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 12:48:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2007 12:50:35 PM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By akxx:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
16" GTS Recon Barrel (1:7 twist, mid-length, chrome-lined, stainless, .740 profile to the gas block - .750 thereafter, matching bolt, wylde chamber) *best barrel I've ever owned anyway
YHM Phantom 5C2
PRI lo-pro gas block
Daniel Defense 12.0 w/ Magpul ladders
Bushmaster upper/lower
Troy front & rear BUIS
PRI gas buster charging handle


Awesome setup.

I *thought* that looked like Denny's RECON barrel in a matte-blasted finish. So the chrome-lined SS is the latest variant, right? What kind of "shooting for accuracy" groups do you get with that beast?


Thanks! Not sure about latest variants, but I've always known Denny's bbl to have all those features. Using a Leupold 1.5X5 MR/T I was getting 1/2" groups at 100 yards without much effort on my part. The barrel is better than I'll ever be. I'm sure this ACOG will allow me to hit those 1/2" groups too - we'll see this weekend.
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 1:07:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2007 1:08:49 PM EDT by akxx]
height=8
Originally Posted By Hokie:

Thanks! Not sure about latest variants, but I've always known Denny's bbl to have all those features. Using a Leupold 1.5X5 MR/T I was getting 1/2" groups at 100 yards without much effort on my part. The barrel is better than I'll ever be. I'm sure this ACOG will allow me to hit those 1/2" groups too - we'll see this weekend.


IIRC, he had the RECON barrel in SS-only at first, and then fairly recently added the chrome-lined option...or was that the Noveske barrels I'm thinking of? Now it's getting muddy.

Wow--"without much effort" says alot about the setup, or a lot about your modesty.
What ammo did you use to get the 1/2" groups?
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 1:12:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2007 1:13:12 PM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By akxx:

Originally Posted By Hokie:

Thanks! Not sure about latest variants, but I've always known Denny's bbl to have all those features. Using a Leupold 1.5X5 MR/T I was getting 1/2" groups at 100 yards without much effort on my part. The barrel is better than I'll ever be. I'm sure this ACOG will allow me to hit those 1/2" groups too - we'll see this weekend.


IIRC, he had the RECON barrel in SS-only at first, and then fairly recently added the chrome-lined option...or was that the Noveske barrels I'm thinking of? Now it's getting muddy.

Wow--"without much effort" says alot about the setup, or a lot about your modesty.
What ammo did you use to get the 1/2" groups?


I always use the good stuff. Usually a 5.56 75 or 77 grain match bullet or TAP load. Though I've also tried 69 Federal ammo with great success. Not so much though when I shoot 62 grain SS109. Usually it takes all I have to get 1MOA. Using 55 grain ammo (typically Winchester white box or M193 or S&B) my groups bloom to 1.5 - 2". I only use a bipod when shooting. I think those firm benchrests allow too much cheatin' for a SHTF gun like the AR15! If I had a Varminter or something similar that'd be different.
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 1:15:48 PM EDT
Thanks for the review and pictures Hokie !


Nice scope
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 1:56:56 PM EDT
From Trijicon's website:



OP, Thanks for the great review!
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 2:34:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
Some more pics from today. Me drawing down on my shed. I installed a Geissele trigger in this lower and am awaiting a Magpul QD attachment so I can install a Blue Force Gear Vicker's sling to complete this build. I'll be heading to the range this weekend to hone the ACOG's POI using Hornaday 75grain Red Box 5.56 TAP.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/Hokie1850/DSC01286.jpg


I was going to say, that pic looks like quite the optical illusion: "where's the rest of the house!" The "shed" completely fills up the FOV through the ACOG and you cannot see anything peeking out on the sides of the optic. Do you have a pic of the shed from the same vantage not looking through an optic?
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 2:38:04 PM EDT
BTW, is there much of a shadow through the TA33 with the Troy flipped up? I'm curious how this 3X would work with a fixed FSB...
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 2:40:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sovereign:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
Some more pics from today. Me drawing down on my shed. I installed a Geissele trigger in this lower and am awaiting a Magpul QD attachment so I can install a Blue Force Gear Vicker's sling to complete this build. I'll be heading to the range this weekend to hone the ACOG's POI using Hornaday 75grain Red Box 5.56 TAP.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/Hokie1850/DSC01286.jpg


I was going to say, that pic looks like quite the optical illusion: "where's the rest of the house!" The "shed" completely fills up the FOV through the ACOG and you cannot see anything peeking out on the sides of the optic. Do you have a pic of the shed from the same vantage not looking through an optic?


I'd have to take one, but it's there, I promise! You don't get a 'real' world view when taking a photo like that, as you'd have to (like you said) see a vantage point from the same angle w/o the ACOG.
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 2:42:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sovereign:
BTW, is there much of a shadow through the TA33 with the Troy flipped up? I'm curious how this 3X would work with a fixed FSB...


Yes, you'd have to have the flip up or the chevron goes through the top of the tower, below the sight post. It's blurry enough to be a PITA. I think it's a combo of the short elevation of the ACOG, and the lower magnification. I'd recommend the flip ups.
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 2:45:35 PM EDT
Hey!, what's all that white-colored shit on your deck - fallout? I've never seen that stuff before.
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 2:52:16 PM EDT
ok ok how much and where can I order from?!!!!!
Link Posted: 1/25/2007 2:52:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
Hey!, what's all that white-colored shit on your deck - fallout? I've never seen that stuff before.


It's called "Wintah"

In Maine - if the snow's meltin' ... it's warm out! Everything else is considered normal!
Link Posted: 1/26/2007 5:45:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:

Originally Posted By sovereign:
BTW, is there much of a shadow through the TA33 with the Troy flipped up? I'm curious how this 3X would work with a fixed FSB...


Yes, you'd have to have the flip up or the chevron goes through the top of the tower, below the sight post. It's blurry enough to be a PITA. I think it's a combo of the short elevation of the ACOG, and the lower magnification. I'd recommend the flip ups.


Isn't that due to the height of the LaRue mount? The best I can tell from pics alone is that there may be additional height built into the mount that ships with the TA33 (see here) that may not be present in the LaRue LT105 (see here).
Link Posted: 1/26/2007 5:53:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ClarenceDammit:

Originally Posted By Hokie:

Originally Posted By sovereign:
BTW, is there much of a shadow through the TA33 with the Troy flipped up? I'm curious how this 3X would work with a fixed FSB...


Yes, you'd have to have the flip up or the chevron goes through the top of the tower, below the sight post. It's blurry enough to be a PITA. I think it's a combo of the short elevation of the ACOG, and the lower magnification. I'd recommend the flip ups.


Isn't that due to the height of the LaRue mount? The best I can tell from pics alone is that there may be additional height built into the mount that ships with the TA33 (see here) that may not be present in the LaRue LT105 (see here).


I just checked. The TA60 is 1/2" above the rail. The Larue is approximately 3/8". With both, it's my observation that the post is still blurry enough in the lower half of the ACOG's sight picture to annoy you. I'd still recommend the Larue mount and a flip up BUIS.

If you're retrofitting an ACOG to a rifle, middy, or carbine you might be better served with an ACOG of 3.5X magnification or higher. Seems that the 3X still allows the sight tower to be black enough (though blurry) to obstruct a decent sight picture.
Link Posted: 1/26/2007 9:26:02 PM EDT
Old school tag.
Link Posted: 1/26/2007 10:43:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
It's called "Wintah"


Wintah! LOL! What's wintah? 70 degrees today, clear and sunny.
Link Posted: 1/31/2007 8:25:34 AM EDT
btt for more reviews by others...
Link Posted: 2/1/2007 6:58:45 PM EDT
BigDawg308, I hope you have this ACOG & La Rue mount in stock... Am going Hadji hunting soon & this set up looks like the ticket for sucess
Link Posted: 2/2/2007 4:09:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2007 5:15:25 AM EDT by Hokie]
It'd be most supreme for fast & accurate 10-200 yard bad guy shooting. Since it then drops to the BDC, your range is duely extended to 600 yards. If most of you're shooting is 200 yards or under, where most combat situations are likely to happen - then yes - this ACOG is truly the cat's ass.

Damn I love this ACOG. I haven't played with the BDC yet, but I look forward to it. If I get a chance I want to call Trijicon to get some tech info on the BDC calibration.
Link Posted: 2/2/2007 5:03:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/2/2007 6:43:51 AM EDT
Sorry If I missed it but what lenth of barell is it calibrated for?
Link Posted: 2/2/2007 7:03:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CooperDb:
Sorry If I missed it but what lenth of barell is it calibrated for?


I'm gonna call Trijicon and post the info here.
Link Posted: 2/2/2007 7:40:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2007 11:33:36 AM EDT by Hokie]
From Trijicon....

The TA33R8 is calibrated using a 14.5" 1:7 carbine barrel. The ammo used is M855 out to 600m.

I'm told using a 16" barrel and heavier 75gr ammo would yield similar results.

Link Posted: 2/2/2007 12:40:33 PM EDT
Is that mounted on the carry handle or on a flat top?

Also, could I kindly request a more close up pic of the reticle?
Link Posted: 2/2/2007 12:56:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2007 12:56:44 PM EDT by Lumpy196]

Originally Posted By Hokie:
From Trijicon....

The TA33R8 is calibrated using a 14.5" 1:7 carbine barrel. The ammo used is M855 out to 600m.

I'm told using a 16" barrel and heavier 75gr ammo would yield similar results.




Innnnteresting


My Sabre midlength and 75gr TAP might light this scope.
Link Posted: 2/2/2007 3:37:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
From Trijicon....

The TA33R8 is calibrated using a 14.5" 1:7 carbine barrel. The ammo used is M855 out to 600m.

I'm told using a 16" barrel and heavier 75gr ammo would yield similar results.




Innnnteresting


My Sabre midlength and 75gr TAP might light this scope.


It just might! Seems my GTS middy is gonna enjoy my stash of 75 TAP as well!
Link Posted: 2/2/2007 3:38:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2007 3:39:53 PM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By Eagle106:
Is that mounted on the carry handle or on a flat top?

Also, could I kindly request a more close up pic of the reticle?


I'll do my best homey...but I'll be honest, if someone has tips on photographing ACOG reticules - I'm all ears. I suck at it. But I'll give it my best shot if time permits this weekend.
Link Posted: 2/2/2007 4:11:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
From Trijicon....

The TA33R8 is calibrated using a 14.5" 1:7 carbine barrel. The ammo used is M855 out to 600m.
I'm told using a 16" barrel and heavier 75gr ammo would yield similar results.


Looking at this combo in the ballistics program for using 75gr BHBB:

I'd zero the rifle with the little ACOG and 75gr BH at about 1" high at 100 yards,
which would give you:

About 1" high at 200 yards
.6" high at 250
dead on at 300
.8" low at 350
1.1" low at 400
2.8" low at 400,
4.5" low at 500
5.3" low at 550
6.3" low at 600

This is of course an approximation depending on muzzle velocities and the like out of your rifle, but it's probably a pretty good start.

It sure as heck looks good on your rifle, Hokie.

Link Posted: 2/2/2007 4:44:32 PM EDT
My question is relative to the mount. How does the scoipe attach to that LaRue mount? It looks like the scope base is inside the mount. It also looks like there is a relatively straight tongue that comes down off the scope and goes into the mount. Tell me more about this arrangement.
Link Posted: 2/2/2007 5:19:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By edwin907:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
From Trijicon....

The TA33R8 is calibrated using a 14.5" 1:7 carbine barrel. The ammo used is M855 out to 600m.
I'm told using a 16" barrel and heavier 75gr ammo would yield similar results.


Looking at this combo in the ballistics program for using 75gr BHBB:

I'd zero the rifle with the little ACOG and 75gr BH at about 1" high at 100 yards,
which would give you:

About 1" high at 200 yards
.6" high at 250
dead on at 300
.8" low at 350
1.1" low at 400
2.8" low at 400,
4.5" low at 500
5.3" low at 550
6.3" low at 600

This is of course an approximation depending on muzzle velocities and the like out of your rifle, but it's probably a pretty good start.

It sure as heck looks good on your rifle, Hokie.



Great info Edwin, thanks! That's a great start actually. I centered the ACOG initially using the tip to hit dead nuts at 100yards, but 1" high would be interesting. I can touch 200 yards at my range, but anything beyond that requires me to head an hour north to some open territory. I'll do that though - soon!
Link Posted: 2/2/2007 5:25:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2007 5:26:49 PM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
My question is relative to the mount. How does the scoipe attach to that LaRue mount? It looks like the scope base is inside the mount. It also looks like there is a relatively straight tongue that comes down off the scope and goes into the mount. Tell me more about this arrangement.


It mounts as any compact ACOG would mount. You're correct in your assumption. The ACOG is inserted into a grooved recepticle on the Larue mount. Matches perfect. With a little loctite the set up is rock solid.


Here's the LT105 (from BigDawg's site):

Link Posted: 2/2/2007 5:43:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Eagle106:
Is that mounted on the carry handle or on a flat top?



Forgot to mention that part, sorry. The ACOG is calibrated using the TA60 flattop mount. I'd imagine the Larue's 1/8" reduced height over the bore would be negligible re: the BDC. I don't know for certain but I won't lose a bit of sleep over it either.
Link Posted: 2/2/2007 6:02:58 PM EDT
thanks
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