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Posted: 8/5/2017 6:12:11 PM EDT
I apologize if this is a bit long, but I've been doing a lot of thinking about what optics I am using and why and would like some feedback.

I have 1 AR. Its a spikes mid length with a fix front sight post and a Troy folding rear, quad rail, upgrading magpul furniture. When I bought it in 2010, I knew it would probably be the only one I would be able to get. So I needed it to be as general purpose as possible. I wanted something I could depend on for a SHTF situation. I wanted something to use at the range. I'v never done 3 gun, but maybe sometime in the future? Probably not my first choice for home defense. Where I live, a handgun is a better choice. Of course no 1 rifle is going to do everything well, but I tried to balance my needs and wants. Where I live ion NE PA, we don't have any long ranges. Most I have been to is 150 yards. The terrain here doesn't lend itself to long 300-600 yard ranges.  


So I started with the irons. Then I bought an Eotech EXPS. I loved that optic. I added a vortex 3x magnifier with a Large FTS QD mount for when I wanted a bit more reach. But around the time Eotech had its issues, I took a good look at mine and saw bad reticle fade on the left side. So I sent it in and got my money back and bought a basically new Aimpoint Comp M4s and Larue mount lower 1/3, same as the eotech had been. I never really liked the Aimppoint. It was built like a tank and the battery life was unbeatable. But I felt like I was looking through a tube. I shoot both eyes open, and it still felt that way to me.

I recently sold the Aimpoint and got the new Vortex AMG UH-1 holo-sight. I really like that sight, as it is very much like the Eotech I had and loved. The magnifier and mount I had just wouldn't fit behind it. I bought a primary arms QD FTS mount and that barely fits, but its tight and hard to get off easily, which is a requirement as I don't always want the magnifier. So I gave in and bought an Eotech G33 magnifier. The mount is great and it fits much better. It is QD as well. The biggest difference is how forgiving the eye box is. The vortex glass was good enough, but not very forgiving. The Eotech is extremely  forgiving.

But all this got me reading more and more about 1x variable power scopes. I hadn't likes the idea before, but with more and more of them out there and replacing magnifiers, I had to question my previous assumptions. Because I need as much flexibility out of 1 rifle, I like the idea of having a CQB optic and the ability to reach out a bit. Magnification is also nice to have at the range.

Problem is good glass on a 1X variable, like a trijicon Vcog or the Vortex razor series is really expensive. When you get into the $500 and under category, I am not sure if I'd be happy with that as a full time optic. I also am not sure how the reticle will play with the front sight. Will it be about the post similar to a lower 1/3 situation? I know they don't cowitness. I also don't know how some of the ranging reticles will work with the front sight. The front sight will blur at 4 or 6x, but will it interfere with some of the ranging abilities?

I had been looking at the Primary arms Gen3 1-6 with the newer chevron ACSS reticle. I like the idea of that scope a lot, but I've tired a low power variable...which is also why I'm not looking to go for a high dollar model either. Which begs the question if it's worth it to go with something as inexpensive as the PA model.

My thinking is, maybe I sell the magnifier but keep the UH-1. That could be my CQB optic and would be my primary choice. I could put the PA 1-6x in a QD mount. Then both optics can be easily swapped out. The idea being if shooting at QCB distances or SHTF, the UH-1 would be good and I wouldn't need the magnifier. If I want magnification I'd have the PA instead of the magnifier. No you couldn't switch them out in the middle of a high stress situation, but thats a worst case scenario and there are definitely going to be compromises here.

Thoughts? Should I stick with the UH-1 and the QD G33? Trade the magnifier and go with a primary arms 1-6 Gen3 ACSS variable in a QD mount? Is it worth it at that price/quality point? How with the ACSS reticle play with my fixed from sight? Should I ditch both the UH-1 and magnifier and go with a higher end variable? I know I am trying to do a lot with one rifle. If I could I'd have multiple rifles each with designated purposes, but thats not an option for me.
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 6:00:30 AM EDT
[#1]
I have mine setup as 1-7 scope on a non-QD mount with a set of magpul mbus pro OFFSET sights. This way even if my scope is trashed, the offset sights are still functional for me. No need to take the optics down. Magpul sights are solid and really high quality.
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 9:49:47 AM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
I have mine setup as 1-7 scope on a non-QD mount with a set of magpul mbus pro OFFSET sights. This way even if my scope is trashed, the offset sights are still functional for me. No need to take the optics down. Magpul sights are solid and really high quality.
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+1
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 10:25:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Look at the previous generation Vortex Viper PST optics. You can find NIB Vortex Vipers 1-4 still around that won't cost you what the next gen Vipers cost. My Viper 1-4x has excellent glass...and I have found that the 4x magnification is very well suited for shooting distances that you describe.

https://servimg.com/view/12639101/368
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 10:41:33 AM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
Look at the previous generation Vortex Viper PST optics. You can find NIB Vortex Vipers 1-4 still around that won't cost you what the next gen Vipers cost. My Viper 1-4x has excellent glass...and I have found that the 4x magnification is very well suited for shooting distances that you describe.

https://servimg.com/view/12639101/368
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I was going to purchase the PST but I find it hard reading the bullet drop etching in the glass its very small print.  I like the layout but its just hard to see.
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 11:01:13 AM EDT
[#5]
What about interference with the fixed front sight? Some say not and issue others say it is. I know at 2x and above it will blur out. But where does the sight post fall in the sight picture? And when and at full magnification does that blur inhibit the ranging features of the reticle?
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 12:09:55 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
What about interference with the fixed front sight? Some say not and issue others say it is. I know at 2x and above it will blur out. But where does the sight post fall in the sight picture? And when and at full magnification does that blur inhibit the ranging features of the reticle?
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If you are worried about the glass quality in a Chinese made 1-6X and are in the price range for under $500 look at the Steiner P4Xi 1-4X. They usually can be found for around $475 shipped, they have excellent German made glass, they have a great field of view on 1x, and the dot in the center of the reticle is daylight bright and can be made to be just as bright as an Aimpoint. Know the magnification range is kind of outdated these days but IMHO a 1-4x with better glass and a better FOV is going to be more effective than a 1-6 with Chinese made glass. 

ETA to answer the question I quoted: at 3X magnification or above you won't see the front sight at all. 
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 6:44:20 PM EDT
[#7]
I'll look into the Steiner. Yeah I do worry about the clarity of the primary arms. It gets reviewed well and the acss system is pretty nice. But I probably don't need that much reach and a 1-4x would probably be fine. In general, German glass should be better from my experience. It looks like the zero is meant to be 200 yards. How well does it work inside of 50 yards?

No love for the primary arms?
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 8:10:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Alaska is right about the glass quality. The PA 1x6 is an okay starter optic. Depends on how much you value clarity. They say a lower power optic with superior clarity will allow you to see as well or better than a higher power with meh clarity. The Steiner will almost certsinly give you better eyebox and FOV as well. And I believe it has a daytime bright dot, which you seem to want, so you can use it something like an RDS.  No LPV will give you the infinite eye relief of a point Sight, but a good one is very usable at 1x. In your area, with limited ranges, you might not need the extra 2x of a 1x6.  I don't believe there are any 1x6s under $1000 with a day-bright dot.

Unfortunately no one can say that a certain optic will please you or not. There are so many subjecttive factors. Best thing would be if you could look through one, or better, shoot through one. But the Steiner sounds like a good match for you.

BTW, my nephew has the PA 1x6. Its not bad, but the reticle is pretty fine. I personally like the ACSS a lot. They have two 1x8s, a cheap one and a nice high-end one, both good values for what you pay.  The Platinum one gets pretty good reviews but it is quite heavy, something like 26 ounces! They also have a real ACOG with the ACSS.
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 8:15:23 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
Alaska is right about the glass quality. The PA 1x6 is an okay starter optic. Depends on how much you value clarity. They say a lower power with superior clarity will allow you to see as well or better than a higher power with meh clarity. The Steiner will almost certsinly give you better eyebox and FOV as well. And I believe it has a daytime bright dot, which you seem to want, so you can use it something like an RDS.  No LPV will give you the infinite eye relief of a point Sight, but a good one is very usable at 1x. In your area, with limited ranges, you might not need the extra 2x of a 1x6.  I don't believe there are any 1x6s under $1000 with a day-bright dot.

Unfortunately no one can say that a certain optic will please you or not. There are so many subjecttive factors. Best thing would be if you could look through one, or better, shoot through one. But the Steiner sure sounds like a good match for you.
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I do need to see if I can get a look at a few options. 1-4 is probably all I need and will allow me to get better glass.  There are just so many choices and the reticle options are also something I really need to think on what I want. A day bright reticle is important to me. I do plan to keep at least the vortex uh1 so I will have a reflex sight. I'm debating selling the g33 to help fund a lpv, or just keep it and get a lpv. Having both options on qd mounts would make for decent flexibility.
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 8:50:30 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:


I do need to see if I can get a look at a few options. 1-4 is probably all I need and will allow me to get better glass.  There are just so many choices and the reticle options are also something I really need to think on what I want. A day bright reticle is important to me. I do plan to keep at least the vortex uh1 so I will have a reflex sight. I'm debating selling the g33 to help fund a lpv, or just keep it and get a lpv. Having both options on qd mounts would make for decent flexibility.
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QD mounts give you flexibility but add weight. If you're a lightweight lover, that matters. I can't decide which way to go on that. I run lightweights and have my 1x6 in a feathery Aero Precision non-QD mount. But I'm thinking of going QD so I could pop it off and run REALLY light with just my offset RMR if I wanted.

On reticles, I like the Steiner, but then, I'm a die-hard BDC guy when it comes to LPVs. I like the ACSS even better.

Optics decisions are hard. I've spent several years researching. Bought a cheap Strike Eagle just to have something to shoot till I figured out what I wanted in the higher end glass.

Edit -- BTW, there's a BIG thread here on that Steiner if you want to get more info on it,
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 9:51:52 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:


I do need to see if I can get a look at a few options. 1-4 is probably all I need and will allow me to get better glass.  There are just so many choices and the reticle options are also something I really need to think on what I want. A day bright reticle is important to me. I do plan to keep at least the vortex uh1 so I will have a reflex sight. I'm debating selling the g33 to help fund a lpv, or just keep it and get a lpv. Having both options on qd mounts would make for decent flexibility
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The Steiner does have daylight bright illumination I can comfortably say it will get as bright as the Razor genII (used to own the Razor too heavy for me). FOV is solid and with the German glass it really offers an incredible value for the under $500 price tag it can be found easily for. As far as the 200 yard zero close in question I think it works just fine in CQB the holdover should be less than 2 inches at 15-25 yards. 
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 10:16:52 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:


QD mounts give you flexibility but add weight. If you're a lightweight lover, that matters. I can't decide which way to go on that. I run lightweights and have my 1x6 in a feathery Aero Precision non-QD mount. But I'm thinking of going QD so I could pop it off and run REALLY light with just my offset RMR if I wanted.

On reticles, I like the Steiner, but then, I'm a die-hard BDC guy when it comes to LPVs. I like the ACSS even better.

Optics decisions are hard. I've spent several years researching. Bought a cheap Strike Eagle just to have something to shoot till I figured out what I wanted in the higher end glass.

Edit -- BTW, there's a BIG thread here on that Steiner if you want to get more info on it,
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Well it's good have options! I'm fine with the weight. I'd love to do a light weight build some day. But I can't now. I'd probably go with an American defense mount. The Steiner is one I'm really looking at now. I'd love to have something more like the acss reticle or a larger ring dot but I don't know if anything like that exists with a daylight reticle and around $500 price with decent glass. That would interest me if there was. Where are people finding the Steiner sub $500
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 10:34:25 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:


Well it's good have options! I'm fine with the weight. I'd love to do a light weight build some day. But I can't now. I'd probably go with an American defense mount. The Steiner is one I'm really looking at now. I'd love to have something more like the acss reticle or a larger ring dot but I don't know if anything like that exists with a daylight reticle and around $500 price with decent glass. That would interest me if there was. Where are people finding the Steiner sub $500
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Decent glass, day bright, and around $500, are words that don't really go together. With the possible exception of the Steiner.  IDK. Some of the decent 1x4s have come down a lot now that 1x6s have become the thing. Might be one that meets all that, but not sure as I haven't looked at 1x4s for a long time. Maybe someone else can steer you on that one.
Link Posted: 8/6/2017 10:42:58 PM EDT
[#14]
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Decent glass, day bright, and around $500, are words that don't really go together. With the possible exception of the Steiner.  IDK. Some of the decent 1x4s have come down a lot now that 1x6s have become the thing. Might be one that meets all that, but not sure as I haven't looked at 1x4s for a long time. Maybe someone else can steer you on that one.
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Decent glass is always costly. I've also been looking at the EE hee and elsewhere as used could be a good option. There is a steiner for sale now but it's still over 500 with a mount I wouldn't want. Where is a good place to find the Steiner at a good price?
Link Posted: 8/7/2017 12:56:13 AM EDT
[#15]
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Decent glass is always costly. I've also been looking at the EE hee and elsewhere as used could be a good option. There is a steiner for sale now but it's still over 500 with a mount I wouldn't want. Where is a good place to find the Steiner at a good price?
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No idea. Check that thread.  That's what I'd do.
Link Posted: 8/7/2017 1:33:30 AM EDT
[#16]
PST gen2 1-6x would be my choice. If you really want a forever type optic I would step up to the Razor gen2 1-6x. I am in love with mine and it's worth every penny to me.
Link Posted: 8/7/2017 1:36:16 AM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:


Decent glass is always costly. I've also been looking at the EE hee and elsewhere as used could be a good option. There is a steiner for sale now but it's still over 500 with a mount I wouldn't want. Where is a good place to find the Steiner at a good price?
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I got mine from Sport Optics. I think I ordered it on a Thursday and I believe I got it on the following Tuesday. I was about to go on vacation because I was getting married that week so I paid for the 2 day shipping even though they're offering free UPS (I believe)shipping at their price. They have it listed at the map price of $579.99 but if you add it to your cart it takes about 104 bucks off. The version they sell at this price is the one that includes a free throw lever for the magnification ring too. 
http://www.sportoptics.com/steiner-p4xi-rifle-scopes.aspx

ETA: you asked about no love for the PA 1-6x and I had one of the gen 2s 4 or so years ago when I first got into ARs and I can agree that they're decent scopes and have an awesome reticle and CS but I've since started making more money to be able to spend on luxury items and once I started buying good glass I've had ZERO desire to go back to the Chinaman made glass. PA does have a special edition Trijicon ACOG with their reticle in it if you have to have great glass and the ACSS reticle. (ACOGs of course are expensive as hell and way over your price point).
Link Posted: 8/7/2017 3:58:56 PM EDT
[#18]
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I got mine from Sport Optics. I think I ordered it on a Thursday and I believe I got it on the following Tuesday. I was about to go on vacation because I was getting married that week so I paid for the 2 day shipping even though they're offering free UPS (I believe)shipping at their price. They have it listed at the map price of $579.99 but if you add it to your cart it takes about 104 bucks off. The version they sell at this price is the one that includes a free throw lever for the magnification ring too. 
http://www.sportoptics.com/steiner-p4xi-rifle-scopes.aspx

ETA: you asked about no love for the PA 1-6x and I had one of the gen 2s 4 or so years ago when I first got into ARs and I can agree that they're decent scopes and have an awesome reticle and CS but I've since started making more money to be able to spend on luxury items and once I started buying good glass I've had ZERO desire to go back to the Chinaman made glass. PA does have a special edition Trijicon ACOG with their reticle in it if you have to have great glass and the ACSS reticle. (ACOGs of course are expensive as hell and way over your price point).
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Alaska, dude! You bought a nice optic the week you got married? I hope your new sweetie likes to shoot!  LOL! Just kidding, man. Right-on, advice, though.
Link Posted: 8/8/2017 6:13:12 AM EDT
[#19]
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Alaska, dude! You bought a nice optic the week you got married? I hope your new sweetie likes to shoot!  LOL! Just kidding, man. Right-on, advice, though.
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I sold my T1 the week prior, literally got word from the buyer that all was good with it and ordered the P4Xi. I was also getting 56 hour work weeks the 3 weeks prior my wedding. I figured the volume would pick back up once I got back to work so I wanted to make sure I had time to zero it. I also decided late last week I needed an Aimpoint in my life again so I bought a Comp M4 that just came in today.  
Link Posted: 8/8/2017 6:21:36 AM EDT
[#20]
you should be able to score a Trijicon 1-4 in that under $500 range. I got a 1-4 with PEPR mount for like $450 that I use for 3 gun. as fast as a dot at 1x, good out to about 400 yards at 4x. I know what you mean about PA and you won't need much more zoom than that.
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 5:52:27 PM EDT
[#21]
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you should be able to score a Trijicon 1-4 in that under $500 range. I got a 1-4 with PEPR mount for like $450 that I use for 3 gun. as fast as a dot at 1x, good out to about 400 yards at 4x. I know what you mean about PA and you won't need much more zoom than that.
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You mean the accupower line? Yeah those look good. Read they weren't daylight bright but they do have a eotech like circle reticle version that looks great for cqb. How is the glass compared to the Steiner?  I would guess as good if not better.
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 6:48:50 PM EDT
[#22]
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You mean the accupower line? Yeah those look good. Read they weren't daylight bright but they do have a eotech like circle reticle version that looks great for cqb. How is the glass compared to the Steiner?  I would guess as good if not better.
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I've had both. I'd say they're comparable but unless prices have come down since they were first release the Trijicon won't be found new for under $600. Also the FOV is 9 ft better on 1X with the Steiner. So to break it down

Steiner                     
Price (new).        
Illumination        
FOV
Free throw lever 

Accupower 
Turrets
Weight (by an oz I think)

Features that are equivalent (more or less)
Glass clarity: The German glass I think I've read is supposed to be more clear but the Trijicon's Japanese glass is just as clear.(going off memory) 
Reticle: both feature a reticle that is good enough to be used for CQB in one way shape or form and both have 5.56 BDCs optimized for M193 or M855 at 16" velocities. Technically the Accupower has BDC that gets out to 800 yards if you really intend to shoot that far on a 5.56 
Both have a shoulder width based ranging feature. 
And the Steiner doesn't have 3,4,5 or 6 next to its holdover marks. This helps to be able to tune it to cartridges other than 5.56 if that's a relevant feature. 
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 9:10:21 PM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
I've had both. I'd say they're comparable but unless prices have come down since they were first release the Trijicon won't be found new for under $600. Also the FOV is 9 ft better on 1X with the Steiner. So to break it down

Steiner                     
Price (new).        
Illumination        
FOV
Free throw lever 

Accupower 
Turrets
Weight (by an oz I think)

Features that are equivalent (more or less)
Glass clarity: The German glass I think I've read is supposed to be more clear but the Trijicon's Japanese glass is just as clear.(going off memory) 
Reticle: both feature a reticle that is good enough to be used for CQB in one way shape or form and both have 5.56 BDCs optimized for M193 or M855 at 16" velocities. Technically the Accupower has BDC that gets out to 800 yards if you really intend to shoot that far on a 5.56 
Both have a shoulder width based ranging feature. 
And the Steiner doesn't have 3,4,5 or 6 next to its holdover marks. This helps to be able to tune it to cartridges other than 5.56 if that's a relevant feature. 
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That was helpful thank you. I should have said a used accupower. I've seen them for prices comparable to the Steiner. But as you point out the Steiner has a lot going for it. Now I just have to figure out a way to fund it while still keeping the uh1 g33 combo which I also like.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 12:02:55 PM EDT
[#24]
I'm looking at mounts and trying to see if there is an option that is high enough to place the center aiming for above the FSB, but also not too high as to prevent proper cheek weld. I also have a folding BUIS that needs to fit under.

ADM has their recon 30mm, a 30MOA version and a High version.

Burris Pepper QD mount is a bit higher than the AMD standard height, but lower than the High version.

Any suggestions?
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 12:38:54 PM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:
I'm looking at mounts and trying to see if there is an option that is high enough to place the center aiming for above the FSB, but also not too high as to prevent proper cheek weld. I also have a folding BUIS that needs to fit under.

ADM has their recon 30mm, a 30MOA version and a High version.

Burris Pepper QD mount is a bit higher than the AMD standard height, but lower than the High version.

Any suggestions?
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Don't go higher than 2 inch high rings. Larue makes a 1.93" high mount. There's no need to have a mount that completely eliminates the FSB from view. Anything above 3x magnification and you won't see the front sight at all. 
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 1:24:11 PM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:

Don't go higher than 2 inch high rings. Larue makes a 1.93" high mount. There's no need to have a mount that completely eliminates the FSB from view. Anything above 3x magnification and you won't see the front sight at all. 
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Right, I'm thinking about sight picture art 1x really. How about this one from ADM at 1.93" https://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/view/product/188/

What I just don't know from never having used an LPV is where the center of the reticle would be at 1x with a centerline height of 1.5"ish vs 1.9"ish
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 1:49:46 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:



Right, I'm thinking about sight picture art 1x really. How about this one from ADM at 1.93" https://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/view/product/188/

What I just don't know from never having used an LPV is where the center of the reticle would be at 1x with a centerline height of 1.5"ish vs 1.9"ish
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I believe most lower 1/3 cowitness are around 1.7" , I believe 1.5 is about where most irons are. Looking through  my Steiner with AERO SPR mount (1.5" above rail) it doesn't even interfere with the bottom most BDC stadia for 600 yards. I can see the A2 sight but it's VERY out of the way. 
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 1:55:19 PM EDT
[#28]
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I believe most lower 1/3 cowitness are around 1.7" , I believe 1.5 is about where most irons are. Looking through  my Steiner with AERO SPR mount (1.5" above rail) it doesn't even interfere with the bottom most BDC stadia for 600 yards. I can see the A2 sight but it's VERY out of the way. 
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If both your irons and your mount are at 1.5", how are your holds not blocked? I believe you that they aren't, just trying to understand how and be able to make a more informed decision on whether to go ADM 1.47" to 1.93"
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 2:23:37 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:


If both your irons and your mount are at 1.5", how are your holds not blocked? I believe you that they aren't, just trying to understand how and be able to make a more informed decision on whether to go ADM 1.47" to 1.93"
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That's a good question. I measured it with my hornady micrometer 2.4 and some change for the A2 FSB. Got around 2.6 and some change for were I estimate the center of the optic is. Maybe the optics rail or the mount has a slight upward cant to it? Or additional height built into the optics rail to account for that? 

ETA: measurements are sight/optic height over bore. 
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 2:24:22 PM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:

If both your irons and your mount are at 1.5", how are your holds not blocked? I believe you that they aren't, just trying to understand how and be able to make a more informed decision on whether to go ADM 1.47" to 1.93"
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Because you're zoomed in when you're shooting with holds so your front sight is blurred out.

Personally, I think having a front fixed sight base is more of a disadvantage now than a folding one.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 2:25:39 PM EDT
[#31]
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Quoted:


Because you're zoomed in when you're shooting with holds so your front sight is blurred out.
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Even at 1x my 600 yard holdover is below the A2 FSB. 
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 2:40:38 PM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:


Because you're zoomed in when you're shooting with holds so your front sight is blurred out.

Personally, I think having a front fixed sight base is more of a disadvantage now than a folding one.
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'

1x is really what I'm thinking of. I considered both sides of the fixed vs folding front sight debate and went wth fixed. I don't regret it, but folding would make this decision easier. But it's what I have to work with so I need for at least the center of the reticle to be above or at the height of the FSB at 1x or it won't be usable.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 2:50:00 PM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:
1x is really what I'm thinking of. I considered both sides of the fixed vs folding front sight debate and went wth fixed. I don't regret it, but folding would make this decision easier. But it's what I have to work with so I need for at least the center of the reticle to be above or at the height of the FSB at 1x or it won't be usable.
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Ok, IMO, I think you will not enjoy the 1X view of the FSB with a standard 1.5" mount.  Then again, the standard height EOTech bugs me too.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 2:56:55 PM EDT
[#34]
Your current combo is high quality and durable.  I wouldn't change a thing.

If you just have to spend some money.  I'd build a second upper with your choice of free float rail and put a quality 1-6, 1-8 or 2-10 on it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 3:02:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
'

1x is really what I'm thinking of. I considered both sides of the fixed vs folding front sight debate and went wth fixed. I don't regret it, but folding would make this decision easier. But it's what I have to work with so I need for at least the center of the reticle to be above or at the height of the FSB at 1x or it won't be usable.
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Where the cross hairs meet with my 1.5" mount there is no FSB. It's entirely doable as is but the FSB ears are kind of annoying. I intend to swap my barrel to a better one here in the next week or when ever my tools get here. When I do the barrel swap I'll be moving over to a BCM KMR setup with a lo pro GB. I'm unsure of whether or not I'll add BUIS because it is a fixed mount. 
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 6:38:10 PM EDT
[#36]
I think I'm just going to have to try one for myself and see. Narrowed it down to either the Steiner 1-4 or the primary arms 1-6x gen3. Probably will go with the adm qd mount. Considering the burris pepr but the adm is probably the better choice.

Steiner has better glass and a daylight bright reticle.
Primary arms  has a bit more magnification, the acss reticle and a lifetime warranty.  

I don't know how the eye box compares on these, but if probably value more forgiving eye box over glass clarity.

Thoughts on these two?
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 9:11:55 PM EDT
[#37]
P4xi.  

Love mine. Glass quality makes a huge difference if you do a lot of shooting or hunting, i.e. look through it for extended periods of time.
Link Posted: 8/21/2017 9:28:27 PM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:
P4xi.  

Love mine. Glass quality makes a huge difference if you do a lot of shooting or hunting, i.e. look through it for extended periods of time.
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I'm torn. I really like the acss reticle and a little more magnification. I know the glass on the Steiner is better, but by how much?
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 5:47:44 PM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:
P4xi.  

Love mine. Glass quality makes a huge difference if you do a lot of shooting or hunting, i.e. look through it for extended periods of time.
View Quote
have you compared it to something like a primary arms? I know the Steiner is cleaner but how much is harder to guess at without seeing both side by side. I won't have that opportunity.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 5:54:57 PM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:
have you compared it to something like a primary arms? I know the Steiner is cleaner but how much is harder to guess at without seeing both side by side. I won't have that opportunity.
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IMO, you will not enjoy using the Primary Arms or Vortex Strike Eagle if you spend any time with the Steiner as the glass is noticeably better.  However, if you spend a lot of time shooting groups, I'd say the magnification is more important.
BTW, you should really look at that Burris RT-6.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 6:48:32 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


IMO, you will not enjoy using the Primary Arms or Vortex Strike Eagle if you spend any time with the Steiner as the glass is noticeably better.  However, if you spend a lot of time shooting groups, I'd say the magnification is more important.
BTW, you should really look at that Burris RT-6.
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That's the benefit of not seeing what you don't have. Everyone seems down on the primary arms here. They seem well reviewed and liked. Normally I'd prefer Vortex but I do like the acss reticle. The Steiner I'd be looking for used. There is on for same with an adm mount for $500 on another site. But they want $35 for shipping and 4% paypal, no f&f. So that's $556. Not bad but not great either. I've seen the Steiner new for $450-475. Plus $250 for the mount. So that would be around $600 brand  new. However I really want to spend $500 max on the scope and mount. This won't be my primary rig, so it doesn't need to be top of the line.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 11:50:43 AM EDT
[#42]
Curly, I bought a used Bushnell Elite Tactical 1x6.5. They list for about 1200 and they come up on the ee from time to time for 5-600.00. There are ffp and sfp, several reticle choices to decide on. I got the ffp and love it. It is very bright in the sun. Highly recommend. If you buy this way you can never lose if you don't like it.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:35:24 PM EDT
[#43]
Hows does $520 shipped sound (+PP if I don't want to use F&F) for a Steiner p4xi with ADM recon q mount and throw lever? Good deal?
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:37:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Curly, I bought a used Bushnell Elite Tactical 1x6.5. They list for about 1200 and they come up on the ee from time to time for 5-600.00. There are ffp and sfp, several reticle choices to decide on. I got the ffp and love it. It is very bright in the sun. Highly recommend. If you buy this way you can never lose if you don't like it.
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I've been hitting refresh on the EE used optics page several times a day for a few weeks now looking for something that I'd like to try. Hard part is there are SO many LPV's out there, different generations and versions of those and different reticles as well. I have to look up each one I am unfamiliar with to see how it rates.  But I am keeping an eye out for sure.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 3:56:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Hows does $520 shipped sound (+PP if I don't want to use F&F) for a Steiner p4xi with ADM recon q mount and throw lever? Good deal?
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Not bad but not huge savings at the same time. If it's something that's used very lightly and been to the range once than sure but I'd try to go lower. PA has the mount for $144 + $10 or so for shipping and sport optics sells the scope for $475 shipped and the throw lever comes with. Keep in mind I wouldn't calculate anything extra for the throw lever because most places sell the model that includes it from the manufacturer. You're saving about $100 off new basically. IMO. 
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 4:33:29 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Not bad but not huge savings at the same time. If it's something that's used very lightly and been to the range once than sure but I'd try to go lower. PA has the mount for $144 + $10 or so for shipping and sport optics sells the scope for $475 shipped and the throw lever comes with. Keep in mind I wouldn't calculate anything extra for the throw lever because most places sell the model that includes it from the manufacturer. You're saving about $100 off new basically. IMO. 
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Yeah it's about $100 less. I really don't know what fair value is for used optics. Seems I've seen a few similar combos sold here for around $500.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 5:44:33 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yeah it's about $100 less. I really don't know what fair value is for used optics. Seems I've seen a few similar combos sold here for around $500.
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It's about what works for you however. Only you know what's best for your budget. If you really need to keep it under $550 and want the Steiner glass then it might be your best option. Or if it doesn't seem like there's a lot of interested parties commenting on the ad, I'd offer less. 
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 5:58:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's about what works for you however. Only you know what's best for your budget. If you really need to keep it under $550 and want the Steiner glass then it might be your best option. Or if it doesn't seem like there's a lot of interested parties commenting on the ad, I'd offer less. 
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I did offer less. This was all the movement they would give. If I wait a bit I'm sure another will show up in the EE for a similar or less price. There is always another deal. Budget is tough. Sometimes the gap between one tier of quality and the next is big enough to make it easy. In this case it's harder. I could get a new primary arms gen3 1-6x and adm mount for around $450. But then I can get a used Steiner and adm mount for a little more, not hundreds more. Of course that's new vs used but quality is what it is. Plus I've never used a lpv so I could hate it or hate the reticle of the one I buy first. Or I could love it and want to sell my other setup to get an even higher end lpv.  You know the drill. Paralysis by analysis.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 7:09:33 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
P4xi.  

Love mine. Glass quality makes a huge difference if you do a lot of shooting or hunting, i.e. look through it for extended periods of time.
View Quote
I was reading more reviews on the Steiner and some opinions were some fisheye/ magnification at 1x. I realize true 1x in a lpv is debatable. What is your opinion on it's 1x performance?
Link Posted: 8/24/2017 12:01:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Op

Your problem sound like mine. I one 1x but I want something for 200+ yards. Honestly I've tried the 1-4,1-6 optics and they to me where worse than using the comp me. I really liked the comp me but like you it was like looking through a tube. I'm currently running an Leopold lco and I love it but of I need magnification it an all in one optic I liked the trijicon 3.5x optic I played with. It was fast and easy to use it wasn't like the comp me I had. However for my rifle and needs I can't see needing more than the 1x so I'm settled on the lco for now.

I don't think your going to be happy with a 1-4 variable zoom optic op. Your probably going to end up back at the eotech and 3x flip sight in the end. Good luck so many great choices and we all have our own opinions
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