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Posted: 7/19/2010 7:56:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Did you look at the -23 manual on the front page of this site?
TM 9-1005-319-23 Unit And Direct Support Maintenance Manual M16A2, M4, M4A1 |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 8:14:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Some good info there but not what I am looking for. I mean like barrel/bolt/buffer tube/springs/etc. should be replace every so many rounds/years/ etc.
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Posted: 7/19/2010 9:30:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Some good info there but not what I am looking for. I mean like barrel/bolt/buffer tube/springs/etc. should be replace every so many rounds/years/ etc. There is no hip pocket book out there that says, replace this spring at 3,000 rounds, that spring at 5,000 and the barrel at 10,000 rounds. The bolt are supposed to last at least 5,000 rounds in a M-4. Read Chapters 1, 2, and 3 to see how to inspect and AR series rifle/carbine. I can tell you what I do, and so will others, but I do not know if this is what you are looking for. |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 10:16:28 PM EDT
[#4]
I think they use gauges, mainly. Like a gauge rod for bore erosion, gauge for lower wear, etc.
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Posted: 7/19/2010 11:16:45 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
I think they use gauges, mainly. Like a gauge rod for bore erosion, gauge for lower wear, etc. Chapter 3 Pages 3-45, 3-46, and 3-47 |
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Posted: 7/19/2010 11:22:11 PM EDT
[#6]
There is no widely known round count for changing vital components such as extractor springs or action springs as far as the military is concerned.
There is limited guidance on barrels and bolts, but very few units actually count how many rounds go through their weapons. Those that do, generally know when to replace the important stuff. Those that don't end up having problems. Plus, the life of an M4A1 in the hands of a SOCOM dude will be very short compared to the life of an M16A2 used by a reserve unit for rifle quals. This further complicates the issue. An in-weapon round counter that also kept track of firing intervals would be a very big help. |
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Posted: 7/20/2010 2:19:20 AM EDT
[#7]
After working in a training unit that had hundreds of rifles that fired thousands or rounds each weekly I can say that there is no specific number rounds that each individual part will last. We do a full inspection and gauging per the TM every 6 months. There are few things that you can look for that will tell you if a part is starting to wear out like the extractor spring being shorter than the rubber buffer inside it or the recoil spring not being within the specs of the TM but as far as really anything else its a crap shoot. I have seen some barrels go thousands upon thousands of rounds and others fail erosion after only 6 months. We actually do keep a round count on all AF weapons through a world wide database so even if a weapon gets transferred from base to base I can look at its firing and maintenance history. The only one that actually requires an inspection after a specific round count is the Mk19.
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Posted: 7/21/2010 10:00:02 AM EDT
[#8]
Thanks guys, that some good info.
I sat through a FN company presentation on the SCAR a few months ago and one of the big selling points from FN was that the barrel was designed to last 30,000 rounds whereas the standard M16/M4 series barrel was like 5,000 (or something close to that figure) and the service life of the weapon was something like 90,000 rounds whereas the M16/M4 was significantly lower. So as I sat through this presentation I got to wondering what if any replacement schedule exists for AR series rifles. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 10:14:39 AM EDT
[#9]
when it breaks, fix it.
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Posted: 7/21/2010 10:15:35 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Thanks guys, that some good info. I sat through a FN company presentation on the SCAR a few months ago and one of the big selling points from FN was that the barrel was designed to last 30,000 rounds whereas the standard M16/M4 series barrel was like 5,000 (or something close to that figure) and the service life of the weapon was something like 90,000 rounds whereas the M16/M4 was significantly lower. So as I sat through this presentation I got to wondering what if any replacement schedule exists for AR series rifles. Barrel life on A2/A4 can be over 20,000, or as little as 10,000 (maybe less) depending upon how it is fired. M4's a bit less. CHF barrels might last longer, but again, it depends upon heat. The M4A1 barrel profile helps too. Since 2011 monies for the Mk16 were taken away, I do not see this as an issue. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 10:35:29 AM EDT
[#11]
I can post a PM schedule I have compiled based upon several well known instrucors SOP's and advice. I have posted it before but people generally argue with it
 and I'm kinda tired of the bullshit. Let me know if you want it.
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:00:52 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I can post a PM schedule I have compiled based upon several well known instrucors SOP's and advice. I have posted it before but people generally argue with it and I'm kinda tired of the bullshit. Let me know if you want it.I'd like to see it |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:13:50 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can post a PM schedule I have compiled based upon several well known instrucors SOP's and advice. I have posted it before but people generally argue with it and I'm kinda tired of the bullshit. Let me know if you want it.I'd like to see it As would I. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 11:37:07 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I can post a PM schedule I have compiled based upon several well known instrucors SOP's and advice. I have posted it before but people generally argue with it and I'm kinda tired of the bullshit. Let me know if you want it.arguing on ARFCOM? 
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Posted: 7/21/2010 1:56:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I can post a PM schedule I have compiled based upon several well known instrucors SOP's and advice. I have posted it before but people generally argue with it and I'm kinda tired of the bullshit. Let me know if you want it.As the OP, I would like to see it. If people dont like it they dont have to follow it. Thanks. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 1:57:53 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks guys, that some good info. I sat through a FN company presentation on the SCAR a few months ago and one of the big selling points from FN was that the barrel was designed to last 30,000 rounds whereas the standard M16/M4 series barrel was like 5,000 (or something close to that figure) and the service life of the weapon was something like 90,000 rounds whereas the M16/M4 was significantly lower. So as I sat through this presentation I got to wondering what if any replacement schedule exists for AR series rifles. Barrel life on A2/A4 can be over 20,000, or as little as 10,000 (maybe less) depending upon how it is fired. M4's a bit less. CHF barrels might last longer, but again, it depends upon heat. The M4A1 barrel profile helps too. Since 2011 monies for the Mk16 were taken away, I do not see this as an issue. Thats interesting. FN was saying around 5,000-6,000 or so. Probably a way to make their product look better. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 2:06:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks guys, that some good info. I sat through a FN company presentation on the SCAR a few months ago and one of the big selling points from FN was that the barrel was designed to last 30,000 rounds whereas the standard M16/M4 series barrel was like 5,000 (or something close to that figure) and the service life of the weapon was something like 90,000 rounds whereas the M16/M4 was significantly lower. So as I sat through this presentation I got to wondering what if any replacement schedule exists for AR series rifles. Barrel life on A2/A4 can be over 20,000, or as little as 10,000 (maybe less) depending upon how it is fired. M4's a bit less. CHF barrels might last longer, but again, it depends upon heat. The M4A1 barrel profile helps too. Since 2011 monies for the Mk16 were taken away, I do not see this as an issue. Thats interesting. FN was saying around 5,000-6,000 or so. Probably a way to make their product look better. FN is saying "well the spec on the M16/M4 is only for 5K rounds. However the fact is unless they are abused they will last much longer. FN knows this (heck they produce M16A2s and M16A4s) but like you pointed out they are looking to sell another product. |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 3:16:04 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can post a PM schedule I have compiled based upon several well known instrucors SOP's and advice. I have posted it before but people generally argue with it and I'm kinda tired of the bullshit. Let me know if you want it.I'd like to see it As would I. me too, thanks |
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Posted: 7/21/2010 6:12:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Here you go guys. Sorry it took so long, I shoot with a group of members here every Wed afternoon.
Keep in mind this is typically done with carbines that see a fairly moderate firing schedule. I have decided to adhere pretty close to this on a few of my guns. Some of my "fun" guns not so much. Here is our PMS for the M4, the key is to prevent problems from occurring. I use this to keep track of where things are and to gauge the life of various replacement parts we use. 2,500 round interval, Inspect and replace as necessary extractor spring, insert and O-ring 5,000 round interval Replace extractor spring Replace extractor insert Replace extractor Replace Crane O-ring Replace gas rings Replace action spring 10,000 round interval Replace bolt Replace lower receiver parts 15,000 round interval Replace barrel |
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