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Posted: 5/2/2004 5:52:26 PM EST
I did the 15 min. trigger job on my Bushmaster and it helped ever so slightly. I smoothed out the trigger pin and slightly polished the mating surfaces. The pull is a little more consistent but very gritty still. If I were to put an aftermarket trigger in such as a Rock River 2-stage could I still rely on this firearm in a SHTF situation? I use my rifle for plinking and target shooting and would like to have a better more predictable trigger for longer shots but I don't want to sacrifice reliability for accuracy. Can someone please give me some advise as what to do? Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/2/2004 6:39:23 PM EST
00...
I have been having great success with the RRA 2 stage. No probs with durability or reliability. breaks at 3.5 lbs. goes bang every time and makes it alot easier for precision shot placement with light, crisp release. Hope this helps... check out whiteoak precision, John Hollinger tunes these and they are even better. John is a great guy also.
Link Posted: 5/2/2004 6:48:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/2/2004 6:51:33 PM EST by USMC03]
Just my personal experiences here, but EVERY Tactical Carbine Course, Patrol Rifle Course, SWAT Course, (and even quite a few in 3 gun matches) I have been to I have seen after market triggers bite the dust and put the gun out of action.

Of all the parts that I have seen malfunction on AR15s, aftermarket triggers malfunction more than any other part. Many trainers that I know are against having an aftermarket trigger in a duty / combat gun. I have been doing some research recently and have found that many departments that have adopted Patrol Carbine policies forbid anything but stock triggers.

For bench shooting, varmit hunting, etc aftermarket triggers may have a purpose....but in a duty / combat gun stay with the stock trigger. Just my 2 pesos.


Link Posted: 5/2/2004 7:49:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By USMC03:
Just my personal experiences here, but EVERY Tactical Carbine Course, Patrol Rifle Course, SWAT Course, (and even quite a few in 3 gun matches) I have been to I have seen after market triggers bite the dust and put the gun out of action.

Of all the parts that I have seen malfunction on AR15s, aftermarket triggers malfunction more than any other part. Many trainers that I know are against having an aftermarket trigger in a duty / combat gun. I have been doing some research recently and have found that many departments that have adopted Patrol Carbine policies forbid anything but stock triggers.

For bench shooting, varmit hunting, etc aftermarket triggers may have a purpose....but in a duty / combat gun stay with the stock trigger. Just my 2 pesos.






I agree...SHTF AR's are best off with their stock triggers. Besides, if you were in that type of situation, you really don't need that extra MOA of accuracy.
Link Posted: 5/2/2004 8:48:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/3/2004 12:12:05 AM EST by RAMBOSKY]
There are a number of us who have the Accuracy Speaks trigger. I've been using mine at 3-gun matches, IDPA "side" carbine matches and at the range over the past two years and never have had a problem.

It's a lot better than the standard "issue" trigger. No creap and light pull.

Link Posted: 5/2/2004 8:49:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/2/2004 8:50:57 PM EST by CJan_NH]

I have been doing some research recently and have found that many departments that have adopted Patrol Carbine policies forbid anything but stock triggers.

My local PD adopted a similiar policy two or three years ago after two back-to-back failures during qualification.

Many recreational shooters who haven't attended a high intensity training course have never actually pushed their gear to the limit. Putting three to five thousand rounds downrange in two days will turn marginal gear into scrap. The stock trigger of an AR is elegantly simple for a reason.

If a trigger has setscrews, requires locktite, or has more moving parts than stock I don't want it in my SHTF weapons. The closest thing to a "match" trigger that I use regularly is Colt's comp trigger, but that is nearly identical to stock aside from a low inertia hammer and other subtle changes.

Link Posted: 5/2/2004 10:05:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
The closest thing to a "match" trigger that I use regularly is Colt's comp trigger, but that is nearly identical to stock aside from a low inertia hammer and other subtle changes.



That sounds exactly like the Accuracy Speaks trigger. Since there is no functional difference between stock and the AS trigger, I cannot see any reason why the AS would not be as reliable as stock.

By the way, I own an AS trigger. Has anyone ever had an AS trigger fail on them?
Link Posted: 5/2/2004 11:24:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ellery_Holt:

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
The closest thing to a "match" trigger that I use regularly is Colt's comp trigger, but that is nearly identical to stock aside from a low inertia hammer and other subtle changes.



That sounds exactly like the Accuracy Speaks trigger. Since there is no functional difference between stock and the AS trigger, I cannot see any reason why the AS would not be as reliable as stock.

By the way, I own an AS trigger. Has anyone ever had an AS trigger fail on them?


Because of it's design, the AS trigger is probably the only aftermarket "match" trigger that I would ever consider in place of Colt's comp trigger. In terms of feel the Colt comp trigger is outclassed by the AS.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 2:30:36 AM EST
I use a Jewell trigger. It can be set for all types of shooting. It works with all types of ammo and with my Cierner 22LR conversion. It's the best trigger I have. You can set it form 1 1/2 to over 7 Lbs. and second stage sear engagement for the type break you need for different types of shooting.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 5:46:21 AM EST
I am sure the training folks are truthful in their reports on the frequent failures of aftermarket triggers. But, like anything, common sense rules. I am convinced the most reliable match-quality trigger is a good two stage setup. John Holligers' tuned RRA triggers are great. And, for any target use, it is my preference. It has no adjustments, and mine have been totally reliable so far.

I think a good single stage trigger is better for tactical use. But, in my opinion, most triggers are unacceptable as delivered from the factory. Even if you smooth the bearing surfaces, the engagement angle is still a problem. From all reports, I am sure the Accuracy Speaks trigger is excellent. I am satisfied with the JP hammer/trigger combination. But, I removed the over-travel adjustment screw, used the full power hammer spring, set up the engagement adjustment for a deeper engagement than would be desired in a target rifle, and then used loctite to keep it there. I believe it would be reliable through the most rigorous training, but I can't say I have proven that. The real problem with single stage triggers in the AR is the safety design. If it had been designed to block the hammer, then the sear engagement would not be such a critical issue. But, since it only blocks trigger movement, there has to be enough engagement to avoid dropping the hammer from an impact.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 6:01:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/3/2004 6:03:56 AM EST by 00_buckshot]
The accuracy speaks trigger says some minor fitting required. What does this mean? Also, who is selling these triggers, if anybody, besides Accuracy Speaks? Thanks for all the help.

Edited to Add: Where is the gritty feeling in the trigger pull coming from.? I smoothed out the trigger pin and this didn't really seem to help too much. Is there really much else I can do to improve the trigger pull of a stock trigger without sacrificing reliability? Thanks again for the help.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 6:27:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/3/2004 6:28:36 AM EST by elh0102]

Originally Posted By 00_buckshot:
Where is the gritty feeling in the trigger pull coming from.? I smoothed out the trigger pin and this didn't really seem to help too much.

Is there really much else I can do to improve the trigger pull of a stock trigger without sacrificing reliability? Thanks again for the help.



Be careful with the pin. It's probably fine, and you don't want to remove any metal. The gritty feel is in the bearing surfaces of the trigger and hammer. Given the angle of the trigger surface, any imperfection in the trailing (top) edge will be felt. I would think you could polish this out without getting into any non-hardened metal, but I have never worked on them.

Link Posted: 5/3/2004 6:55:05 AM EST
Ive used Jewel, JP, and bushmaster's DCM triggers. I had a problem ONCE with a bushy - adjustment screws came loose. Since then I have degreased all screws and glued them with either red locktite or superglue gel - No problems since.

While I have the same SHTF concerns about reliability - I have over 12K rounds on various aftermarket triggers - at classes, sidematches and 3-gun matches - NO PROBLEMS and the trigger pull is SO much better than stock.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 6:57:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/3/2004 6:58:04 AM EST by RAMBOSKY]
The minor fitting required on the Accruacy Speaks trigger is in the area where the safety lever is engaged and not in the sear area. Simple minor adjustment. They have detailed instructions that come with it.

Brownells also carries them.
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 6:41:50 PM EST
Derick Martin, who owns Accuracy Speaks, is a national level shooter, a National Guard member (now on active after call-up) and a glazed-eyed fanatic when it comes to reliability. I would trust his custom made stuff before anything made by a factory.

I did have JP units in a few of my guns and had no problems. I pulled them all and replaced even the stock units when I saw how the AS units are made. (The guys who fabricate the units are also glazed-eyed fanatics.)

My 2 rubles.

SD
Link Posted: 5/3/2004 8:52:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By USMC03:
trainers that I know are against having an aftermarket trigger in a duty / combat gun



I've experienced the same in my training classes.
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