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Posted: 7/23/2004 8:30:13 AM EST
What can ya'll tell me about them that I don't already know. They extend back over the barrel making for a very short overall length weapon. I know that they are not as effective as tradional cans but are supposed to be very durable. I am interested in one for my AR carbine because it would alow for a manageable size weapon system without having to sacrifice velocity as I would with a 10" barrel and traditional can.
Link Posted: 7/23/2004 10:14:13 AM EST
The only one I know of that is available for civilian sales in the US is the Troy unit. The others are either made in Kali or imported from Europe, which places various restrictions that prevent them from being purchased by an individual.
Link Posted: 7/23/2004 2:45:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By triburst1:
What can ya'll tell me about them that I don't already know. They extend back over the barrel making for a very short overall length weapon. I know that they are not as effective as tradional cans but are supposed to be very durable. I am interested in one for my AR carbine because it would alow for a manageable size weapon system without having to sacrifice velocity as I would with a 10" barrel and traditional can.



Get a 6 inch can from Gem-Tech.
Link Posted: 7/23/2004 2:58:41 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/23/2004 6:39:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
I guess they are ok if your goal is to get the sound level down to the point that your ears will no longer bleed.



That is exactly what I want. I want a suppressor that will lower the decibles to a level that will not cause hearing damage when the weapon is fired indoors. This and the fact that the reflex design is 4-5" shorter would make it ideal for home defense applications. A shorter overall weapon system is of greater concern to me than a few more decibles of supression when used for CQB.
Link Posted: 7/23/2004 6:42:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By triburst1:
What can ya'll tell me about them that I don't already know. They extend back over the barrel making for a very short overall length weapon. I know that they are not as effective as tradional cans but are supposed to be very durable. I am interested in one for my AR carbine because it would alow for a manageable size weapon system without having to sacrifice velocity as I would with a 10" barrel and traditional can.



Get a 6 inch can from Gem-Tech.



The Gem-Tech and AAC suppressors are nice, but a reflex suppressor would be 4-5 inches shorter when mounted on the weapon. I want it for indoor CQB and want the shortest overall package possible without sacrificing barrel length and thus velocity.
Link Posted: 7/24/2004 5:36:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
I guess they are ok if your goal is to get the sound level down to the point that your ears will no longer bleed.



I thought TROY was claiming a 36db reduction. If this is true is that not good reduction by any standard and more than just enough to to keep your ears from bleeding?
Link Posted: 7/24/2004 7:38:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/24/2004 7:43:35 AM EST by KevinB]
while useless for US civilains
CANADIAN TACTICAL

There was a good article by Al Paulson on them recently as well
Special Weapons for Military and Police


I have a bit of experience with them
Link Posted: 7/24/2004 9:39:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By KevinB:
while useless for US civilains
CANADIAN TACTICAL

There was a good article by Al Paulson on them recently as well
Special Weapons for Military and Police


I have a bit of experience with them



Don't rub it in. That is the can I would really like to have.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:26:04 PM EST
"Note: Individuals may import suppressors into the USA through a licenced FFL dealer in their state, with BATF approval." Copied and pasted from Canadian Tac LLC's web site.
Are they mistaken? Really I'm not being snotty, I am confused.
T8ARM4C would be $654.18 + $200transfer tax, plus FFL comission + Shipping from Canadia.
Gemtech HALO is $675 + $200 transfer tax, + FFL commission.
T8 25.75 oz
Halo 25.0oz
Which would be quieter?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:53:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By triburst1:
What can ya'll tell me about them that I don't already know. They extend back over the barrel making for a very short overall length weapon. I know that they are not as effective as tradional cans but are supposed to be very durable. I am interested in one for my AR carbine because it would alow for a manageable size weapon system without having to sacrifice velocity as I would with a 10" barrel and traditional can.



As an owner of a couple of Reflex suppressors, a T4 and a T8, all I can really say is that you would have problems fitting them to a 10"bbl, unless the front sight and gas port were moved further back down the barrel. Otherwise the can will hit up against the front sight.
The T8 extends past the muzzle by about 2 1/2"

Although I don't have much experience with other makes of suppressors, I wouldn't think that they are any less effective because of their telescopic design. There is a large expansion chamber area that wraps around the barrel.
Suppressors are very popular here in Britain and Reflex's are the most common. They're also reasonably cheap, about £180 or $325 in US money.
I do think that they are a bit heavy though and would be willing to sacrifice some of the compactness of the design for a smaller can such as the Jet-Z, also from Finland, which are also quieter. But almost double the price.
ps,I can't believe how much cans cost in the US!!
Mark
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 1:35:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
I guess they are ok if your goal is to get the sound level down to the point that your ears will no longer bleed.



That's about right.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 4:27:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By streetfighter:

Originally Posted By triburst1:
What can ya'll tell me about them that I don't already know. They extend back over the barrel making for a very short overall length weapon. I know that they are not as effective as tradional cans but are supposed to be very durable. I am interested in one for my AR carbine because it would alow for a manageable size weapon system without having to sacrifice velocity as I would with a 10" barrel and traditional can.



As an owner of a couple of Reflex suppressors, a T4 and a T8, all I can really say is that you would have problems fitting them to a 10"bbl, unless the front sight and gas port were moved further back down the barrel. Otherwise the can will hit up against the front sight.
The T8 extends past the muzzle by about 2 1/2"

Mark



I don't think he is wanting a 10 inch barrel. I think that he was expressing the fact that with a traditional suppressor, to get a handy overall length, you have to us a 10 inch barrel with a can.


Oh, and I want to know about the importing BR reflex cans from Canada also. I know I am Illinois, but I still want to know.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:46:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By 123whisper:

I don't think he is wanting a 10 inch barrel. I think that he was expressing the fact that with a traditional suppressor, to get a handy overall length, you have to us a 10 inch barrel with a can.



Exactamundo!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:48:34 PM EST
I have an old model JAC style suppressor that is basically a reflex style. The barrel screws into the can about 4 inches inside it and it has a two piece pressure fitting that goes around the barrel. I consider it a reflex as the chamber behind where the barrel screws inside is vented and is used as an expansion type chamber.

Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:54:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 6:56:23 PM EST by usma89]
SSK also makes a suppressor that extends over the barrel. I have both SWR and AAC cans, IMHO go with a SWR. For my next can I will most likely buy a SRT and/or a Jet. If you want a quiet light can look at the Jet.

http://www.jetsuppressors.com/
http://www.swrmfg.com/products.asp
http://www.srtarms.com/30can.htm
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 11:55:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By Pat-Riot:
"Note: Individuals may import suppressors into the USA through a licenced FFL dealer in their state, with BATF approval." Copied and pasted from Canadian Tac LLC's web site.
Are they mistaken? Really I'm not being snotty, I am confused.
T8ARM4C would be $654.18 + $200transfer tax, plus FFL comission + Shipping from Canadia.
Gemtech HALO is $675 + $200 transfer tax, + FFL commission.
T8 25.75 oz
Halo 25.0oz
Which would be quieter?



I think the key is BATF approval...

Honestly when I looked into it previously the US State Dept gave us two different answers. FFLès can bring them in (albiet I beleive that they require some sort of LE or Mil reference).

Link Posted: 8/21/2004 3:55:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By KevinB:

Originally Posted By Pat-Riot:
"Note: Individuals may import suppressors into the USA through a licenced FFL dealer in their state, with BATF approval." Copied and pasted from Canadian Tac LLC's web site.
Are they mistaken? Really I'm not being snotty, I am confused.
T8ARM4C would be $654.18 + $200transfer tax, plus FFL comission + Shipping from Canadia.
Gemtech HALO is $675 + $200 transfer tax, + FFL commission.
T8 25.75 oz
Halo 25.0oz
Which would be quieter?



I think the key is BATF approval...

Honestly when I looked into it previously the US State Dept gave us two different answers. FFLès can bring them in (albiet I beleive that they require some sort of LE or Mil reference).





Hi Kev, should you be doing some warrior stuff over there

In addition to the Reflex cans manufactured, one can find the Ase Utra line of suppressors on the CANTAC site linked above. The AU models feature a more complex suppressor design and there fore can be made smaller and they are very effective.

How do i know, i work for Ase Utra.

Link Posted: 8/21/2004 4:11:27 AM EST
"reflex design is 4-5" shorter would make it ideal for home defense
applications"

Are you seriously considering using a AR for "home defense", in a situation where you may have to later defend your actions to a jury? I cannot conceive of a scenario requiring more than either a shotgun or pistol to defend my home. For no other reason than the realistic expectation that after the action is over, some prosecutor is gonna have my life for lunch, when I am prosecuted for "excessive force" or something similar. I'd consider a suppressor on my Beretta 9mm, with 147gr subsonic ammo for my own hearing protection, the "most extreme" for home defense. Of course, all this assumes I am defending against a robber/junkie trying to break in to a home in most populated areas. If I have a more remote home, with acres & acres of open, I'd opt for a shotgun with slugs. "My home is my castle" only goes so far, and shooting an intruder with any centerfire rifle so easily demonized by overzealous prosecution is "risky business" indeed. If you do live out in the country, you would be well hearing-protected with an AR with most any can like a SWR/Gemtech/American-manufacture, etc.

But again, the aspect of possible prosecution for the tool used to defend life and dependents is a very real factor to be considered. I would never consider my AR (and most especially not an MG!) as primary home defense weapon in any scenario that doesn't inclulde breakdown of major communications/commercial power such as the east-coast blackout.

my .02 worth, your opion of my opinion is your opinion!

for a efficient small package, the Warrior suppressor by Mike Klos is the best value for the money, in my book.

Link Posted: 8/21/2004 5:53:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2004 5:57:43 AM EST by xcpd69]
Laws on self defense vary from state to state.

Oklahoma has on the books a "Make My Day Law" which in essense protects you from prosecution or civil action, in defending yourself with lethal force from an unlawful intruder.


'21-1289.25. Unlawful entry of dwelling - Physical or deadly force
against intruder - Affirmative defense and immunity from civil
liability.

A. The Legislature hereby recognizes that the citizens of the
State of Oklahoma have a right to expect absolute safety within
their own homes.
B. Any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree
of physical force, including but not limited to deadly force,
against another person who has made an unlawful entry into that
dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such
other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight,
against any occupant of the dwelling.
C. Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including
but not limited to deadly force, pursuant to the provisions of
subsection B of this section, shall have an affirmative defense in
any criminal prosecution for an offense arising from the reasonable
use of such force and shall be immune from any civil liability for
injuries or death resulting from the reasonable use of such force.

Added by Laws 1987, c. 54, ' 2, eff. Nov. 1, 1987.





Lonny
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 11:39:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/21/2004 11:40:50 AM EST by triburst1]

Originally Posted By raffica45:
"reflex design is 4-5" shorter would make it ideal for home defense
applications"

Are you seriously considering using a AR for "home defense", in a situation where you may have to later defend your actions to a jury? I cannot conceive of a scenario requiring more than either a shotgun or pistol to defend my home. For no other reason than the realistic expectation that after the action is over, some prosecutor is gonna have my life for lunch, when I am prosecuted for "excessive force" or something similar. I'd consider a suppressor on my Beretta 9mm, with 147gr subsonic ammo for my own hearing protection, the "most extreme" for home defense. Of course, all this assumes I am defending against a robber/junkie trying to break in to a home in most populated areas. If I have a more remote home, with acres & acres of open, I'd opt for a shotgun with slugs. "My home is my castle" only goes so far, and shooting an intruder with any centerfire rifle so easily demonized by overzealous prosecution is "risky business" indeed. If you do live out in the country, you would be well hearing-protected with an AR with most any can like a SWR/Gemtech/American-manufacture, etc.

But again, the aspect of possible prosecution for the tool used to defend life and dependents is a very real factor to be considered. I would never consider my AR (and most especially not an MG!) as primary home defense weapon in any scenario that doesn't inclulde breakdown of major communications/commercial power such as the east-coast blackout.

my .02 worth, your opion of my opinion is your opinion!

for a efficient small package, the Warrior suppressor by Mike Klos is the best value for the money, in my book.




Yep, I'm damn serious about using my AR for home defense. Simply put, it is the most effective weapon I have available. Anyone who uses a less effective weapon in defending thier loved ones for the sake of pleasing a jury is a fool .
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