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Posted: 11/28/2003 10:34:00 PM EDT
Here it is! My latest project: re-creating the earliest production type M-16. A blast from the past!
Parts: Very old Colt M-16 upper & new Bushmaster lower, re-anodized by DPMS so they match; "pencil" A-1 barrel (new condition) from SARCO; new 3-prong flash hider from DPMS; New chromed, notchless bolt carrier group from DPMS; very old (but unused!) early pattern buttstock (no gear trap, rubber buttplate, movable sling swivel) & pistol grip/triangle handguards from Northridge. Total weight: 6 lbs 14 oz! One of the reasons for this: the early plastic furniture is VERY light...   Thanks George! |
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Posted: 11/28/2003 10:38:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Very nice...I like seeing the old school guns. Especially the XM177.
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Posted: 11/28/2003 10:59:26 PM EDT
[#2]
Nice project! I like it. I may be crazy but I honestly prefer the older M-16/AR-15 design to newer A2/A4 etc. They are lighter, I prefer the 1" shorter buttstock and to me, they are more sexy. Guns can be sexy, right? LOL.
-CH |
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Posted: 11/28/2003 11:05:36 PM EDT
[#3]
As far as I'm concerned, EVERY "improvement" on the M-16A2 (except the new plastic!) does not significantly (enough to justify the higher cost/weight) enhance the system's combat potential...
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Posted: 11/29/2003 12:12:08 AM EDT
[#4]
It seems to me that the forward assist may become invaluabe in the field. (even if it's never needed) I see it as a "spare tire". All it's doing 99.999% of the time is taking up space and weight but I'm glad it's there for those oh shit moments.
Oh yeah, I really like your recreation. It looks sweet. good job! |
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Posted: 11/29/2003 12:20:08 AM EDT
[#5]
How is the color match on the DPMS 3-prong?
I've been debating getting one for my SP-1. |
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Posted: 11/29/2003 12:23:24 AM EDT
[#6]
Thats an exact match of my primary duty weapon as an Air Force SP at Clark AB, 1988-1990. I always felt like the odd man out as everyone else had A2's. But man could the thing shoot.
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Posted: 11/29/2003 2:09:37 AM EDT
[#7]
Izzat an A2 lower?
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Posted: 12/7/2003 2:14:49 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Izzat an A2 lower? looks like it. Damn, sweet rifle. Screw the Garand, I'm building one of these! |
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Posted: 12/7/2003 5:14:26 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Quoted: Izzat an A2 lower? looks like it. Damn, sweet rifle. Screw the Garand, I'm building one of these! He said it was a new bushy lower. My question then is this, does he mean it's new new, or is a new (to him) pre-ban? I don't think anyone is selling slab sided lowers. You'd have to get a new one cut down and refinished. Next question, where did you find the early pattern buttstock (no gear trap, rubber buttplate, movable sling swivel)? I have a similar project going based on a fulton armory upper. |
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Posted: 12/7/2003 5:24:12 AM EDT
[#10]
Love that A1 look. Just looks cool!
[coffee] |
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Posted: 12/7/2003 6:04:21 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Izzat an A2 lower? looks like it. Damn, sweet rifle. Screw the Garand, I'm building one of these! He said it was a new bushy lower. My question then is this, does he mean it's new new, or is a new (to him) pre-ban? I don't think anyone is selling slab sided lowers. You'd have to get a new one cut down and refinished. Next question, where did you find the early pattern buttstock (no gear trap, rubber buttplate, movable sling swivel)? I have a similar project going based on a fulton armory upper. There are at least two guys on the parts for sale section of this site, who are selling the early type butt stocks. In fact one of them, USAF-K9, will sell you an entire early type stock, handguard, grip set for about $20. Bought two sets from him, and they are in tip top shape. No dings or cracks; only a few light rub marks here and there[:D] StormSurge, you've got me beat on the color of the lower. My Bushie lower is still the original darker shade. But I've gotcha on the parts. ALL the pieces in my recreation are original Colt, including the chromed bolt/carrier assy. Only the bare lower itself isn't original Colt (for obvious reasons). Going to have to part w/that lower long enough to have the color change done. Over the last few years I've put togther clones of every M16/M4 varient wver issued to US forces, and it's true. I'm far more likely to take the M16 and/or M16A1 clones to the range these days than either the M4gery or the A2 mock up. Of course, the XM177E2 clone always goes with me. Class 3d it over 20 years ago and it's been my SHTF piece ever since. One of the best things about the Bush administration is that they had the military stop demilling the M16 and M16A1 parts being surped out . Hit the shows, or the web, and you can find just about anything you want to build up an early type clone these days. To you guys who say you want one, get the stuff now. Most of it is pretty reasonbly priced at the moment; but I'll bet that in 3 or 4 years all the uppers, barrels, etc that you can get at a good price these days will have tripled or quadrupled in price.[:D] |
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Posted: 12/7/2003 1:20:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Nice! I have been collecting parts for a couple of years now, to do exactly the same thing. I'm currently just short the barrel, which is proving very difficult to find in Canada, and none of the US dealers seems eager to ship internationally. I did luck out and find an original Colt bolt carrier though.
I have only two small nits to pick: First, this is not the first production AR. That would be the model 601, it had brown furniture painted green and a different style of 3-prong flashider. Second, from what I can tell, although all other bolt/carrier parts are properly chromed, the gas key screws [b]and the cam pin [/b]were parkerized on the originals. I told you they were small nits. I hope mine comes out as nicely. |
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Posted: 12/7/2003 1:25:03 PM EDT
[#13]
Anyone remember the thread where a person kicked this cherry Colt Armalite AR15 out of a reserve armoury?
[img]http://home.bak.rr.com/varmintcong/misc/DCP_0064.jpg[/img] [img]http://home.bak.rr.com/varmintcong/misc/DCP_0055.jpg[/img] If somehow you could kick up an old school delta ring and charging handle, that would go FAR in helping to pull off the look. |
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Posted: 12/7/2003 4:31:37 PM EDT
[#14]
That's exactly the rifle I was carrying as a USAF SP from 87-91. Triangle handguards, three prong flash hider, slick side and all. Yup we were even pre A1. The Armory had a couple hundred of them and a very few A1s never saw an A2 in that time. I gotta wonder if they're still using them at RAFB in TX ?? Love those rifles, gotta get an SP1 just for the memories... ;)
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Posted: 12/7/2003 5:05:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Uh, not to be a jerk or anything, but...
If that's a new Bushmaster lower on that rifle, what's it doing mated to a pre-ban configured upper? I mean, that IS a flash hider, and if my eyes do not deceive me I see a bayonet lug, too. I'm SURE I'm not seeing that rifle in an ILLEGAL configuration, right? It's not REALLY violating the AW ban because that pre-ban upper isn't really mated to that post-ban lower, is it? It's only together by means of some photoshopping, isn't it? I mean, THAT would be legal. But if it's a pre-ban upper on a post-ban lower, you can't be playing that game, man. Not unless it's a government or law enforcement agency's property and you're authorized to have it. I hate the ban as much as anyone else, and wish it had never been even thought up, but I want to see everyone make nice until it goes away. Violations of the ban are bad publicity, even though the ban itself is stupid. CJ |
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Posted: 12/7/2003 6:08:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Isnt bushy or somebody making a NEW postban legal SP1 copy? It had a bayo lug without the sides so it cant lock in and had a fake 3 prong flash hider. I seem to remember seeing this somewhere, if they had the wood furniture springfield armory was selling I'd order one right now! Btw, assuming yours is legal it's a great looking rifle and congrats on a nice build.
I just looked and it's not on bushies website or RRA, dang cant remember where I saw em.... if anyone does lemme know... |
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Posted: 12/7/2003 6:22:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Isnt bushy or somebody making a NEW postban legal SP1 copy? Fulton Armory. I think AR15.com has something to do with it. Yeah, I was right: [img]http://www.fulton-armory.com/Legacy-500_50.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 12/7/2003 6:32:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Quoted: Isnt bushy or somebody making a NEW postban legal SP1 copy? Fulton Armory. I think AR15.com has something to do with it. Yeah, I was right: [url]http://www.fulton-armory.com/Legacy-500_50.jpg[/url] so why does it look like it has an A2 stock? |
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Posted: 12/7/2003 7:12:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Isnt bushy or somebody making a NEW postban legal SP1 copy? Fulton Armory. I think AR15.com has something to do with it. Yeah, I was right: [url]http://www.fulton-armory.com/Legacy-500_50.jpg[/url] so why does it look like it has an A2 stock? Well I could be wrong, but to me it looks a tad short and the butt appears just a little rounded. But if you really want to know, I'd ask either Fulton Armory or EricE. BTW IIRC they are 1 in 12". Could be wrong on that. Check out the specs on Fulton Armory's website. |
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Posted: 12/7/2003 7:14:16 PM EDT
[#20]
it could be an A1, it might be the grey tone of the stock in the pic that is leading me to think its an A2.
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Posted: 12/7/2003 9:19:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Thanks for the compliments folks!
To clear things up, I was a bit imprecise in the origional post...the lower is in fact a pre-ban...when I said it was "new", I meant it was not an SP-1; it has the raised mag catch protecters...I'm nuts, but not crazy enough to have them milled down! Rebuilders rejoice! I just got the new DPMS catalog...they now sell an SP-1 type SLICKSIDE AR upper, just like mine! No ejector bump OR forward assist! I was looking for those EARLY early brown speckled NON PAINTED (before the green-painted ones) stocks, but the ones I've seen are pretty crappy... |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 2:45:03 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: I have only two small nits to pick: First, this is not the first production AR. That would be the model 601, it had brown furniture painted green and a different style of 3-prong flashider. Second, from what I can tell, although all other bolt/carrier parts are properly chromed, the gas key screws [b]and the cam pin [/b]were parkerized on the originals. Absolutely right, and if you want to get even further into picking small hairs; the gas key screws are only staked in one place, in the middle of the key, with a round punch, rather than on both sides as done now[:D] |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 12:54:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: If somehow you could kick up an old school delta ring and charging handle, that would go FAR in helping to pull off the look. CMMG has the flat handguard retaining rings . What's the diff Re the charging handle? I'm scrounging parts for an old school AR15 also (A1 style in my case). |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 1:08:34 PM EDT
[#24]
For anyone looking for Postban A1 style rifles. I have 3 of them listed in the EE.
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=189463&w=searchPop[/url] |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 1:54:44 PM EDT
[#25]
I built one on a pre-ban Oly lower. I don't have the chrome bolt, and also still need the correct flash hider and charging handle. Old school rocks!
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=6038[/img] |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 2:31:47 PM EDT
[#26]
What is the purpose of the little lanyard-hole looking thing on the pistol grip?
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Posted: 12/8/2003 2:49:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: What is the purpose of the little lanyard-hole looking thing on the pistol grip? I think it's just a handstop, mine doesn't have a through hole. |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 2:51:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: it has the raised mag catch protecters...I'm nuts, but not crazy enough to have them milled down! There is nothing crazy about having them milled down. The only problem I have with it is the extra time and expense. |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 3:30:54 PM EDT
[#29]
I went a little further, I milled a preban rec. into a slabside, Had OLY make me a 1/14 twist LW barrel, I also used an old colt m16 smooth carrier I bought from CMMG (Milled to AR spec.)with a chromed bolt I picked up on the Equipment exchange.
The only part I can't find is the old triangle charging handle! Also I am trying to have a very early style long 3 prong Flash hider made, Like the one used on the first AR15s shown on "Tales of the gun". |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 3:41:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Anyone remember the thread where a person kicked this cherry Colt Armalite AR15 out of a reserve armoury? [url]http://home.bak.rr.com/varmintcong/misc/DCP_0064.jpg[/url] [url]http://home.bak.rr.com/varmintcong/misc/DCP_0055.jpg[/url] If somehow you could kick up an old school delta ring and charging handle, that would go FAR in helping to pull off the look. Ya.. thats a sweet like new AirForce Mod 01 M16. Even in AF service most 01/02's didn't keep the green furniture and wedge charging handle for long as they were easily damaged or replaced with black M16 furniture during arsenal rebuild. A few other parts needed for early M16.. Fat body firing pin and solid firing pin retainer, duckbill flash hider. |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 5:48:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Some of you guys get pretty hardcore about this stuff..."solid firing pin retainer"...sheesh!
Anyway, I think the production "3-prong" flash hider looks way kewl...the earlier "duckbill" flash hider looks fugly IMHO and probably gets bent out of shape! I don't think it would be good for your flash hider to turn into a "bullet trap device"! |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 6:38:09 PM EDT
[#32]
I've been putting mine together and I'm almost there. I set out to duplicate the one I carried in RVN. We always called it an A1E1. It had the pencil barrel with birdcage hider, bayo lug, teardrop forward assist, solid butt plate with no storage, etc. Obviously, I can't get the correct lower marked M16 at a price reasonable to me, but mine hangs on the wall with the assist side out.
The barrel looks unfired and the handguards fit about as tight as I remember. I'll have to get a pic up sometime. |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 6:50:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Mine. They have A1 grips on them now.
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=13371[/img] |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 7:42:40 PM EDT
[#34]
One of my AR's has an original SP1 upper, (converted to post-ban, unfortunately, as the lower is a new Bushy) but I do have triangle guards and an A1 stock for it that I can install at any time. It's a sweet shooter, and the pencil barrel DOES make for a very light rifle.
Who's making pencil barrels (A1 gov't profile) these days? CJ |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 1:15:22 AM EDT
[#35]
Fulton Armory has
Barrel, 20 in. G.I., 1x12, Chrome Lined, M16A1, Early Issue Colt Light Weight, Rare, New in Wrap |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 7:05:28 AM EDT
[#36]
Who's making pencil barrels (A1 gov't profile) these days?
CJ [/quote] Sarco has what looks like new Chrome lined Light weight M16 rifle barrels for $135. |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 8:42:16 AM EDT
[#37]
Fulton's price is a rip off, like many of their other prices. SARCO's is about what a new A1 barrel ought to go for.
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Posted: 12/9/2003 9:30:24 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: What is the purpose of the little lanyard-hole looking thing on the pistol grip? It's a alternate mounting point for a sling swivel. The military realized no one used it for a sling point, so they dropped when they went to the A2 pistol grip. |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 11:41:05 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Some of you guys get pretty hardcore about this stuff..."solid firing pin retainer"...sheesh! Solid firing pin retainers are cool. I know where you can get them for like $6 or $7. I actually sold a solid FP retainer to a guy that shot his SEMI AR so hot that he was having the cotter key type FP retainer go "plastic" and then the FP jumps out of the carrier and ties the gun up. |
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Posted: 12/12/2003 5:15:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Who's making pencil barrels (A1 gov't profile) these days? CJ ------------------- Sarco has what looks like new Chrome lined Light weight M16 rifle barrels for $135. I got a few 1:12 M16A1 barrels from SARCO, they were brand new COLT ! $135. whata deal. |
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Posted: 12/12/2003 6:27:40 PM EDT
[#41]
They still have a couple of those A1 barrels?
Would be a nice barrel for making a light weight varminter, 1:12 for 40-50 grn Vmaxes combined with a flattop upper and light weight freefloat tube. |
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Posted: 12/17/2003 9:17:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Here are a few of the ones I've built:
XM177E2 built on a registered SBR Colt Sp1 lower using one of the XM177 kits I build. [img]http://www.tacticsrange.com/DCP_0245.JPG[/img] M16 and M16A1 copies built on preban Bushmaster lowers [img]http://www.tacticsrange.com/DCP_0361.JPG[/img] [img]http://www.tacticsrange.com/DCP_0364.JPG[/img] |
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Posted: 12/17/2003 9:29:39 PM EDT
[#43]
Lookin' good Colt! But do you have a 3-prongger on the '16?
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Posted: 12/17/2003 9:34:21 PM EDT
[#44]
Built them for friend that wanted a USAF and USA/USMC style M16/M16A1.He didn't want the 3 prong or non trap door stock.
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Posted: 12/18/2003 5:54:01 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Nice project! I like it. I may be crazy but I honestly prefer the older M-16/AR-15 design to newer A2/A4 etc. They are lighter, I prefer the 1" shorter buttstock and to me, they are more sexy. Guns can be sexy, right? LOL. -CH I am with ya bro!!!!!! My A2 doesn't even compare to my SP-1. Total sweetness. I would love to see an ORIGINAL top cocking AR fifteen like the pre Colt ones. They had the upside down RECIPROCATING trigger like the AR 10 did...no need for an FA at all there!!! I didn't even know that the AR 15 had that feature originally until I caught a picture of one in an Armalite add the other day. |
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