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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 9/9/2002 6:00:08 PM EST
I've decided that I want to get an LED based, rifle mountable flashlight for my AR. It has standard A2 grips.

I am open to suggestions as to brand, model,
beam color, etc.

I've decided only that it is to be an LED based light because LED's don't break when you drop them, while bulbs often do. The greater battery life is a big plus, too.

If any LED flashlights for this application are variable color, that'd be a big plus. Ideally I'd want one that did white, red, green, blue, UV, and IR all in one!

"...and in that castle lived a fairy princess."


Tomorrow I have the immense pleasure of voting AGAINST JANET RENO!!!
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 6:17:34 PM EST
The only way an LED light be variable color is if it had a bunch of different LEDs. The reason LEDs have such a low power draw and generate so little heat is that they only produce light at one color. A regular bulb wastes a lot of energy generating light well above and below what the eye can see and everything in between.

I've never heard of an LED weapons light except for the auxilary lights on the high end Surefire weapon light.

Keychain LED lights are small and light enough that you can just tape one to your handguards without having to worry that it'll come loose under recoil.
Link Posted: 9/9/2002 6:36:44 PM EST
Actually, multicolor T1 3/4 size LED's have been available for several years. They have red, green, and blue chips all in one package. Not very bright, though. I have some. I think there are newer ones available that are the modern high intensity type but I haven't yet seen them being used in any packaged products.
Also, multicolor LED matrix assemblies are available, too. Any color is possible with them.

I think there would be a real market for selectable color tactical lights. Select IR for night vision illumination, red for saving your own night vision, blue for tracking blood trails (blood shows black in blue light), white for general purpose illumination. Green for when you want green. UV (black light) could be used to help track somebody by causing bits of clothing to fluoresce, etc. I've also heard that some body fluids fluoresce under black light. I wonder which ones? :)


Link Posted: 9/10/2002 3:48:18 AM EST
Streamlight M3-LED
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 4:42:36 AM EST
Is the M3 an LED-based light? All I know is that it's an excellent suggestion, as the $130 price (I got mine for $115 - lucky) is very nice and the mounting options are numerous.
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 5:09:01 AM EST
The M3 led has a normal bulb, plus an additional LED "navigation light" like the M6 has an additional laser. The nav light is going to be akin to a photon microlight in output.
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 5:21:59 AM EST
Are we talking about something in development? As far as design, price and performance, the M3's got a lot going for it. Nav lights might be cool. I'm not too keen on the laser, so they can just remove the laser module from the M6 and give me the nav light.
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 5:30:11 AM EST
Wow. I just went to the Insight site. Now I've got something to replace the M3 I keep switching between my Glock and my AR. Thanks for the heads up.
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 1:36:31 PM EST
I've got an Inova 5 LED (mine are white light LEDs) I got from TR Gear. Lot more light than the M3 Streamlight LED, but a lot less than the Streamlight incandescent. All depends on what you want. With the Inova you also have to come up with some way to mount it, but it's only about $50.00 too, so.....

In my experience most LED nav lights aren't worth much unless it's really dark and your eyes are fully adapted. In urban area lighting conditions they're just too dim when moving around under varying conditions.

Agree it's nice to have them nearly shock-proof and run so long though.

Several people make headband-mounted LED lights now too that you may want to consider.

Link Posted: 9/10/2002 1:59:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By GLOCKshooter:
The nav light is going to be akin to a photon microlight in output.

Actually the LED on the M3-LED is significantly brighter than either the ASP or Photon LED lights.

Link Posted: 9/10/2002 3:04:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2002 3:27:04 PM EST by Size15s]
There is nothing to stop you putting one of these Bezels on your SureFire M95 or M96

They will stomp all over other LED-based lights.

The "KL2" will screw onto the M96 three cell SF123A WeaponLight and is designed for the M3 Millennium CombatLight.

The "KL3" will screw onto the M95 two cell SF123A WeaponLight and is designed for the M2 (and all two or three cell SF123A standard body SureFires)

Released very soon, I can give you guys quite a lot of details.

The KL3 is a single "Luxeon" Super LED that produces more of a "beam" rather then a spread (flood) of light. Whilst I would not personally consider the KL3 to have much real range when compared to the likes of the standard P60 Lamp from SureFire, it produces very clean white (with LED slight bluish tint) light ideal in it's flashlight form for indoor illumination, close-range path and 'navigation' as well as general near-field "I need to see what I'm doing" light. One thing though, the blinding effect of this very white light is more then an E1e or E2e SureFire. I guess your eyes just aren't able to cope with such daylight type light.

The KL2 is a 19 LED Bezel that has been shown off back at the SHOT Show 2001. I had a proto-type back then and things have improved on an already very impressive unit. Whilst it will put out more spread of white light, the 19 LEDs have little range.
Here is a photo of a KL2 on a SureFire M900:

Here is a photo of the KL2 on a SureFire M961C (note Z48 instead of SW02 to show Click switch interchangeability)
For illustration, also mounted is a KL3 on a SureFire M951C

By the way, the KL1 Bezel is for the E1(e) and E2(e) SureFires.

Not really very suitable platforms for Weapon-mounting, but very ideal for a flashlight to carry with you every day every where. If you'd like more details, please visit the SureFire Discussion Board: www.186thousand.com or email me for details size15s@ntlworld.com

Of course, the KL3 will fit on your Classic Series WeaponLights, and your 6P's and 9P's conversions too.
On Dealer online is allowing pre-orders of the KL3 in either HA or Black to match your setup.


Link Posted: 9/10/2002 5:30:18 PM EST

Actually the LED on the M3-LED is significantly brighter than either the ASP or Photon LED lights.


Yes, you can. This is because the system voltage doesn't determine light output directly. That's a function of the LED's characteristics. Provided their operating voltage isn't exceeded, that is. The individual LED's used in LED flashlights are the same as you might find in a Photon keychain light or even in one of the new LED based traffic lights. The LED's themselves have specific operating characteristics including maximum operating voltage and light output at specified voltage. It makes no difference if they're being powered by D cells or watch batteries, as long as their voltage requirements are met. The larger battery provides longer operating life, and that's all.

A 3600 mcd LED is a 3600 mcd LED, whether it's in a keychain light or in a circuit fed from AC power.

Some people use a light bulb that's rated for a slightly lower voltage than the flashlight delivers, as in using a 3.6 volt Krypton bulb in a 4.5 volt flashlight. This delivers AMAZING brightness, but the bulb lasts a few hours. You can't overdrive an LED like that. Try it and the LED will first DROP output, and then die.
Some LED's will even go through a color change when overdriven, and the change may be permanent..until it burns out.

LED's are taking over. I predict they will eventually almost completely replace the incandescent lamp and may even challenge fluorescent lighting at some point as well.

Investing in the companies that specialize in developing new LED applications and technology is probably a sound idea. LEDtronics, for one, is a good company to look into.

Link Posted: 9/11/2002 10:07:36 AM EST
CJ, excellent. I was just going to make fun of the capitalization. you actually had some proof.

15s, looks great! I have a few Surefires, and I will definitely sacrifice one to the experiment!
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 12:37:37 PM EST
Release dates for these SureFire KLx Bezels is suggested for a couple weeks from now.
Prices have been posted by at least on online retailer and my own dealer has told me his prices.

Did I point out that the Luxeon "super" LEDs are regulated so that the output is maintained throughout the runtime. No more dimming or yellowing.

Link Posted: 9/11/2002 1:03:21 PM EST
These new 'super LEDs' from Surefire are great news! The reduction in heat is enough to justify the expense, let alone any other advantages.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 3:18:56 PM EST

It is true that the beams put practically no heat.

However, the KLx electronics get hot. When you have the bezel constant-on for an hour or so, they get hot to the touch. The KL2 19 LED bezel after 4 hours on the M6 is hot!

If you thought that the cooling fins on SureFires were for show, please think again.

But for momentary-on use and short duration on, the KLx produce nowhere near as much heat as a similar incandescent bulb.

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