Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
PSA
Member Login

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 12/22/2004 1:50:36 PM EDT
Just received kit, several days early, from M1S.  45 minutes later, had a new pistol.  Mounted EOTech sight, which boresighted perfectly(!!!!) Couldn't get it to function semi-auto, as I am a moron and put the buffer assy together wrong.  Plus, it was sub-zero F at the time, so I did not correct the malfunction.

Feeding one round at a time, I was able to fire and hit 9" x 12" box at 50 yards, off-hand, using the Weaver stance, repeatedly.  Muzzle flash and Noise were not noticeable, recoil non-existent.  

I'm thinking the "double up on your hearing protection", "two-foot flame visible in daylight" crowd are full of crap.  This thing is fun and easy to shoot and VERY accurate out to 50 yards.  I cannot wait to go to the "big-boys" range to try it out on downrange targets.

Just as an experiment, I fired it in an enclosed space, and "noticed" the extra noise, but in no way was it debilitating, or even distracting.  

Round one of the experiment is down.   How many other myths about this lash-up will hold up???
Link Posted: 12/22/2004 3:27:16 PM EDT
The Pistol buffer is crap.  On mine the thing would fire one round then the bolt carrier would recoil back and forward and then bounce back about 1/8-1/4 in off the barrel extension.  Just enough to keep the firing pin from hitting the primer.  I think it is actually dangerous.

If I reseated the bolt carrier I could then fire another round.
Link Posted: 12/22/2004 3:38:11 PM EDT
Let see some pics!
Link Posted: 12/22/2004 6:11:50 PM EDT
I have tried posting pics before, but no luck.  Someone want to explain how that is done, or link me to some instructions???

Or, alternatively, I can e-mail you some pics of my new machine.

Link Posted: 12/22/2004 6:16:05 PM EDT
Go to http://imageshack.us/index3.php and upload your pic, then copy and paste the url it gives you.

Link Posted: 12/22/2004 6:53:43 PM EDT
my 10.25 made a big flame in daylight, loud too, night time shooting was like fireworks, not a myth
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 5:51:29 AM EDT
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/120mm/PDR_0586.jpg

I'm wondering about that fireball thing.  Mine had a regular A2 flash-suppressor, and from the operator's end didn't seem out of line for flash and bang.

Perhaps it is a personal tolerance thing.  For instance, I didn't think the recoil or flash/bang on my BSA U9 lightweight in .300 Weatherby was bad.  I need to get someone to shoot it for me and tell me what they think.

Link Posted: 12/23/2004 7:27:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2004 7:28:23 AM EDT by rockytherotty]
Did you get it to fire semi-auto yet? or are you still having problems with the M1S buffer & tube setup?

P.S.  Looks awesome!
Link Posted: 12/23/2004 7:02:54 PM EDT
I took it out today, in -4 F weather.  (Without the windchill from the 30 mph wind calculated in.)  Couldn't get it to fire semi-auto, but my buddy couldn't get his AK to fire at all(!!!!!).  The slide cycles fine indoors, but once we got out into the howling Iowa wind, you have to break your hand trying to chamber a round.  I want to give this gun a fair shake, and Sunday should be the first day of above-freezing weather.  If I still have trouble then, I'll start chasing down the malfunction.  Until that time, I'll play hide and seek with the UPS guy who is holding my M231 buffer assy hostage and refusing to come to my front door where I can hear him knock.

Link Posted: 12/24/2004 11:12:31 AM EDT
I ditched the M1S pistol tube and buffer? assembly.  I could see how you could make it work, somewhat, by trimming the spring, but I really don't want the pain.  I received and installed the M231 buffer assembly, and just removed the wire stock and the chunk of metal it fit on.  I taped over the spring for the pin retainer with electrical tape.  The action is a lot freer and smoother, so I expect it to function semi-auto, now.

Here's a pichttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/120mm/PDR_0591.jpg
Link Posted: 12/24/2004 2:47:41 PM EDT
My crystal ball says all your functioning troubles are over now.  You are indeed wise to cut your losses and not keep beating your head against the wall trying to make something work that has such a poor track record.  You are going to love that pistol but there is one thing you must pay attention to and be concerned with.  They are ammo hogs and you can shoot yourself into the poor house.  Next to full auto, these pistols tend to eat up vast amounts of ammo, and who cares if you hit anything.  They are just plain fun to shoot, tiny groups be damned!
Link Posted: 12/24/2004 2:59:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2004 3:05:05 PM EDT by nascar3n8fan]
One of the reasons I get a fireball and big bang out of mine is because I did not put a flash suppressor on.  Nor will I be able to unless Bushy comes out with a quick detach FS (I've got one of the type 97 carbon 15 pistols).  It does have a muzzle brake, which increases the noise.

Not a myth.  The other guys at MODCC give me a rough time when I shoot it without warning them (even though they've already got their ears on) because it's so loud.

ETA
Link Posted: 12/24/2004 3:46:34 PM EDT
Give BM a call.  I am pretty sure I just read someplace that they either now or will have soon a quick disconnect FS for their pistols.
Link Posted: 12/24/2004 4:03:06 PM EDT
I just ordered my 10.25" kit from Model 1. Now I just need to find something to replace the P.O.S. buffer they provide. Please give us a range report soon. I hope she runs like a top.
Link Posted: 12/24/2004 4:43:11 PM EDT
I recently bui;t one as well.  I have to admit that the thing is a good deal louder than  a 16" AR and does  put out a heck of a concussion to the sides.  As far as shooting it goes, its not any better or worse than my 16".  Be warned though, we tried to fire this thing in dim light and a 4 foot fireball really does come out (with a A1 birdcage or 3 prong).
Link Posted: 12/24/2004 5:48:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/24/2004 5:49:35 PM EDT by g33inmypocket]
I'm thinking of getting the Model 1 Sales A2 upper when my Mega lower comes in. Rifle lower came in yesterday and fits to the RRA upper nice. Guess from surfing this board their buffer doesn't work well. Any one try the Bushmaster pistol buffer?  And BTW, beautiful pistol!
Link Posted: 12/24/2004 7:19:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By g33inmypocket:
I'm thinking of getting the Model 1 Sales A2 upper when my Mega lower comes in. Rifle lower came in yesterday and fits to the RRA upper nice. Guess from surfing this board their buffer doesn't work well. Any one try the Bushmaster pistol buffer?  And BTW, beautiful pistol!



I addressed this the other day but nobody verified if my conclusions were correct or not.  I have looked at several BM CF firearms and their buffer tube, same used on their CF rifles and pistols, looks to me to be made in one piece with the receiver or glued in so that it does not come apart.  There is no lock nut, threads, or anything else to hold the buffer to the lower so it is either made in one piece with the lower or glued on.  I have not be albe to find the CF buffer tube offered for sale as an individual part either.
What most of us who are having their pistols run correctly are using is a CAR length buffer tube.  Either the M231 Bushmaster wire telestock, CAR tube, or ARFX entry tube.  All use the standard CAR buffer and spring and works perfectly with the pistol builds.  And yes, the CAR length tubes are perfectly legal to use on a pistol build and you do not need to alter the tube to keep a stock from being attached.  Just make sure if you do own a stock that can be attached that you also own an upper with a barrel of 16 inches or longer.  And also make sure you never put the stock on with a barrel of less than 16 inches.
Link Posted: 12/24/2004 8:31:17 PM EDT
Well, if you all want to spend the extra money for a different buffer system, go a head.  The $9.00 fix is order a new spring from Wolff gun springs.  Order the 1911 Long slide spring, power rating of #1.  Trim to fit and install.  My M1S kit and 10.5" upper works fine after the new spring.

The only reason I would want a 'conventional' buffer system, is to be able to uses 9mm uppers (Colt style).  Since the Colt sytle 9's have a weight in the back, the incert for the M1S type has no where to go.....

But congrats on getting it running!    (My next lower will use a conventional lower....why mess w/ my 1st AR pistol...it works fine.)
Link Posted: 12/25/2004 8:02:07 AM EDT
I agree, Kaliburz.  The only reason I didn't go the new spring route, is that this upper and buffer assy will eventually live on a Class III M16A2 lower, and I really want the wire telestock.  I also think that an enterprising individual could make the existing spring work.  Note to that individual, do NOT rack the slide back hard, until you've done your initial trim of the spring, as it will kink the spring which will be tough to fix.

Of course, the Wolff spring would just rock.  I think I'll try it next, anyway
Link Posted: 12/25/2004 9:44:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2004 9:45:35 AM EDT by alwaystryin]

I received and installed the M231 buffer assembly,


How long is the 231 buffer tube? Is it shorter than a car tube?
Link Posted: 12/25/2004 10:28:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2004 10:30:12 AM EDT by Kaliburz]

Originally Posted By alwaystryin:

I received and installed the M231 buffer assembly,


How long is the 231 buffer tube? Is it shorter than a car tube?




If I recall reading other posts, the 231 buffer is the same length as the CAR.  Only the tube is "different".....



Originally Posted By 3-4CAV:
I agree, Kaliburz.  The only reason I didn't go the new spring route, is that this upper and buffer assy will eventually live on a Class III M16A2 lower, and I really want the wire telestock.  I also think that an enterprising individual could make the existing spring work.  Note to that individual, do NOT rack the slide back hard, until you've done your initial trim of the spring, as it will kink the spring which will be tough to fix.

Of course, the Wolff spring would just rock.  I think I'll try it next, anyway



So far, I have "only" 4-500 rounds through the pistol w/ that Wolff spring.
Link Posted: 12/25/2004 10:33:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2004 12:30:21 PM EDT by Matt_B]

Originally Posted By 3-4CAV:
I ditched the M1S pistol tube and buffer? assembly.  I could see how you could make it work, somewhat, by trimming the spring, but I really don't want the pain.  I received and installed the M231 buffer assembly, and just removed the wire stock and the chunk of metal it fit on.  I taped over the spring for the pin retainer with electrical tape.  The action is a lot freer and smoother, so I expect it to function semi-auto, now.



3-4CAV, I have a couple of questions for you if you don't mind regarding the M231.

First, I can't tell from the pic but does the M231 use a standard castle nut? The reason I ask is because I would like to use a KAC receiver sling mount with an AR pistol.

Second, what was entailed with removing the wire stock and metal chunk? BTW, I know what the M231 looks like from the website/catalog but I have not seen one up close.

TIA.
Link Posted: 12/25/2004 10:36:03 AM EDT
tagged.


considering a pistol build for one of the extra lowers i have
Link Posted: 12/25/2004 7:08:10 PM EDT
I went out today, and it still wouldn't fire semi-auto, but it wanted to.  It ejected 4 out of 30, and I had two stick in the chamber.  I watched the action move, and it is, most of the time, not moving back very far.

If I were going to troubleshoot this, where should I start?  I'm shooting Wolf ammo, so I think I'll start with something close to the military ball, just to eliminate ammo sensitivity.

Would it be worthwhile to trim the spring at all?  That would be cheap, anyway.  I suppose I should take a look at the chamber, and maybe polish that?  As well as slick up the bolt a little bit, I suppose.  The gas system is a cipher to me.  I guess I could look at the gas system for a blockage, etc..

Believe it or not, I actually like this stuff.  AND I'll value this gun more after I've coaxed it into working well.

Link Posted: 12/25/2004 7:16:06 PM EDT
tag

If you want to get rid of that pistol biffer kit, i'd be interested at tackling it.
Link Posted: 12/25/2004 8:56:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 3-4CAV:
I went out today, and it still wouldn't fire semi-auto, but it wanted to.  It ejected 4 out of 30, and I had two stick in the chamber.  I watched the action move, and it is, most of the time, not moving back very far.

If I were going to troubleshoot this, where should I start?  I'm shooting Wolf ammo, so I think I'll start with something close to the military ball, just to eliminate ammo sensitivity.

Would it be worthwhile to trim the spring at all?  That would be cheap, anyway.  I suppose I should take a look at the chamber, and maybe polish that?  As well as slick up the bolt a little bit, I suppose.  The gas system is a cipher to me.  I guess I could look at the gas system for a blockage, etc..

Believe it or not, I actually like this stuff.  AND I'll value this gun more after I've coaxed it into working well.




Had to remind myself you were using a 7.5" barrel.  Okay, some suggestions.  Clean the chamber and gas tube well- use chamber cleaner and pipe cleaner for gas tube.  Oil the Heck out of the carrier.  Try the same ammo you did before after the cleaning and oiling.  If no go, try different brand.  If no go after several brands of ammo, you might think about drilling the gas port bigger or getting a "pig tail" gas tube.  The pig tail gas tube is said to be a good way to solve the prob (well, so says the guys w/ full auto's and 7.5"....)  That's about all I can say.....
Link Posted: 12/26/2004 7:12:13 AM EDT
An easy source for the pistol buffer tube is to take the tube out of the old post ban fixed CAR stock.  I had a fixed BM stock a friend gave me and I just drilled out the two pins.  Makes a real nice pistol tube.  It is not drilled with the stock position holes, so it looks decent.  
Link Posted: 12/26/2004 10:30:59 AM EDT
nascar3n8fan -

Bushmaster now makes ($24.95) an adapter that has the three ballbearings and coller on one end so it will fit the end of your barrel and 1/2 x 28 threads on the other end which will fit just about any flash suppressor or muzzle brake.  If you are able to purchase Noise Suppressors in your state the adapter will screw into any threaded Noise Suppressor and you will then have a quick attach / detach set up.

MadDog
Link Posted: 12/26/2004 4:48:34 PM EDT
The M231 chunk o' metal just slips over the base of the buffer tube, so you can just leave it out.  I don't even know what a castle nut is, but I'd think a standard sling mount thingie would fit on it just fine.  

Link Posted: 12/26/2004 5:37:01 PM EDT
those are awesome. how about bumpin up to class 3?
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 7:20:35 AM EDT
Speaking of class 3, yesterday we attached my M1S 7.5 upper to a M-16 lower.  Damn that thing runs like a raped ape.  No problems whatsoever.

Tyrone
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 7:22:05 AM EDT
Excellent 3-4CAV. Thank you for the info.
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 7:40:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2004 8:32:06 AM EDT by 98Zixxer]

Originally Posted By 3-4CAV:
I'm thinking the "double up on your hearing protection", "two-foot flame visible in daylight" crowd are full of crap.



Now I said two foot flame but NEVER said in the day light. As a matter of fact I clearly stated EVENING.

BTW It will shoot a two foot flame, but you can only see that in the evening hours when the sun is headed down.
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 1:37:25 PM EDT
Thanks for the info Bigbore and Maddog.
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 1:56:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tyrone:
Speaking of class 3, yesterday we attached my M1S 7.5 upper to a M-16 lower.  Damn that thing runs like a raped ape.  No problems whatsoever.

Tyrone



Thats great to hear. I just ordered a 10.25 pistol kit. If I may ask, what kind of turn around time have you guys seen, and what type of ammo were you using?
Link Posted: 12/27/2004 5:50:25 PM EDT
h8mtv -

It took two weeks for my Pistol Upper to arrive.  I did not get the kit, just the upper because I built the lower from parts I already had and used a CAR buffer tube instead of the pistol buffer that Model1 sells.  Shot my pistol in a dimly lit indoor range today and didn't notice any flash.  Of course I had Model 1 install a Phantom flash hider instead of an A2 so that may be why I don't notice any.  If it is louder than my 16" I can't tell, all I know is it's the most fun AR I have.

MadDog
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 10:56:03 AM EDT
Forgot to mention that my pistol build didn't work at first with the CAR buffer and buffer tube.  The buffer I used was an H buffer and might have been a little too heavy.  The pressure generated by the short barrel and gas tube was just enough to eject an empty but not strip a new round from the magazine.  I tried all fourteen of my mags, some old and some new with no success.  The next day I took a cordless dremmel with me to the range and started chopping off coils from the buffer spring.  At two coils cut off, it cycled perfectly but would  not lock back on an empty mag.  At three coils cut off the buffer spring, it cycled perfectly and locked back on every empty mag.  It now runs 100% with 750 rounds through it so far.

MadDog
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 11:21:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2004 1:15:28 PM EDT by h8mtv]
I asked M1 if they could sub a collapsible for the pistol buffer and they did. Very nice of them. I wonder if too many coils is the problem with the M1 pistol buffer. It is amazing to me that they sell something with such a bad rap, but I dont know anyone else who sells a pistol kit.
Link Posted: 12/28/2004 12:12:46 PM EDT
Also,

3-4CAV, did you do anything to permanently fix the tape over the spring setup? I saw a really nice pistol the other day that had the retainer spring cut short and the hole it goes in was tapped, and sealed with a small machine screw.
Link Posted: 12/29/2004 6:36:28 AM EDT

I have looked at several BM CF firearms and their buffer tube, same used on their CF rifles and pistols, looks to me to be made in one piece with the receiver or glued in so that it does not come apart. There is no lock nut, threads, or anything else to hold the buffer to the lower so it is either made in one piece with the lower or glued on. I have not be albe to find the CF buffer tube offered for sale as an individual part either


The lower is threaded and the buffer tube is seperate and it screws into the lower. It doesn't have a locking nut, it threads in pretty tight and has a rubber o ring that gives it more resistance to coming unscrewed.

Another chance to show my favorite gun...haha
Link Posted: 12/29/2004 3:09:09 PM EDT
SBR? Very nice, legal?
Link Posted: 12/30/2004 3:11:53 AM EDT
I received my complete pistol kit in 4 days.  Over the Christmas holiday, to boot.  My Vulcan lower took 24 hours to get here.

Link Posted: 12/30/2004 5:31:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2004 5:31:40 AM EDT by HK_DUDE]

SBR? Very nice, legal?




Yes, Yes, and you damn skippy!
Link Posted: 12/30/2004 3:40:55 PM EDT
That is soooooo sweet!

3-4cav, did you ever fix the tape over the spring setup?
Link Posted: 12/30/2004 7:20:12 PM EDT
My Pistol is running 100% and putting me in the poor house.

MadDog
Link Posted: 12/31/2004 6:20:26 AM EDT
The 20 round magazine is a terrific idea, especially if your goal is to make it as small as possible for use inside a vehicle.  Thanks a lot for that idea, whether intended or not.

Link Posted: 12/31/2004 8:35:34 AM EDT
Okay, I clipped off some spring coils, and now, while it fires, it fails to extract, and then double feeds the next round.  Is this just an extractor problem, or did clipping the coils affect extraction?  

Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/31/2004 9:42:00 AM EDT
This is generally due to the bolt carrier  moving to hard and fsat backwards allowing the round to slip off the claw.  You can try these things, not necessarily in any order:

1) Check Extractor, replace if worn.  Replace extractor spring and add Dfender.
2) Polish Chamber to make sure there are no burrs that might cause a slight hang up.
3) Get a Heavy Buffer

4) All else fails get a pigtail or some other gas adjustable gas tube.
Link Posted: 12/31/2004 12:05:35 PM EDT
I have another buffer spring, I'll try trimming that back and not be so aggressive.  I obviously screwed up and trimmed off too much spring.  I may still need the other fixes, though.
Link Posted: 12/31/2004 12:07:24 PM EDT
So does anyone know of a buffer tube and spring combo that will work with these pistols without any problems?  It seems nothing works...
Link Posted: 12/31/2004 6:18:23 PM EDT
Its usually the gas port not sized properly, in this case may be too big.  I prefer chrome-lined chambers myself as the lining aids extraction.  Also I had my barrel cut down from a USGI Colt 1:7 20in barrel and the hole sized by a gunsmith.

Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top