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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/19/2003 3:35:42 PM EDT
I recently bought a RRA two stage trigger off ebay, and installed it to my lower. I worked the trigger with my thumb over the hammer and there didn't appear to be a first stage at all, just a light 2nd stage. I then attached my upper to lower, and tried it again with the same results. Does anyone have any suggestions? The trigger is supposed to be new, and appeared that way. The hammer and the trigger has the letter "R" stamped on them. Does RRA stand behind what they make?
Link Posted: 9/19/2003 4:13:30 PM EDT
Hmmmmm...new, huh? Strange. My RRA 2-stage NM trigger turned into a VERY light single stage after about 700-1000 rds. I've actually came across a lot of references to this as of here lately. Had I known of this little "problem" before hand, I would not have gotten this trigger to begin with. The only info I've heard regarding fixing this problem has been to lightly file the contact points of the hammer and disconnector (??) making sure that the flat edges retain their squared profile. FWIW, a lot of the instructors at some of the shooting schools advise against installing aftermarket triggers in a duty rifle, rather he advises to stay with the stock trigger assemblies. I know that Pat Rogers of Gunsite fame specifically advise against showing up for their courses with aftermarket triggers. Please post any info you come across regarding any kind of warranty RRA may have regarding these triggers.
Link Posted: 9/19/2003 4:43:43 PM EDT
Had the same thing happen to my RRA trigger after less than 500 rounds. Im sticking with stock trigger parts now. No need to re-learn what people with much more practical experience than I have been saying all along.
Link Posted: 9/19/2003 4:44:59 PM EDT
I hope the guy didn't knowingly sell me a P.O.S. The more I look at it, I noticed the notch on the pin side of the hammer doesn't make any contact to the front side of the trigger. I quess that would be the first stage? I say that it looks new because there are no visible scratchs or grooves on the face of the hammer from the carrier or on the inside of the holes for the pins. Thanks for the reply.
Link Posted: 9/20/2003 10:07:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2003 10:10:12 PM EDT by RBPRECISION]
Who did you get it from?, RRA will stand behind it 100% I would send it back and let them go through it. Their number 309-792-5780, Open customer service phone at 8:00 Central. One item to note, there are variences in tolerance between manufacturers, it is a "match" trigger tuned to a 4 1/2 pound range, a small difference in pin location can make a huge difference at the far ends of the engagement surfaces,(remeber the ole hypotenuse of a triangle rule from geometry class) I would give it a chance I am certain you will be happy you did. Robert
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 5:28:04 AM EDT
I'm sure Rock River can take care of the problem but... If the hammer is held back by the trigger that is the first stage. The second stage is caused by interferance with the disconector. Simply remove the disconector and file the flat area that sets the angle of the disconector allowing it to rotate toward the hammer. I'm sure it won't take much. There is a guy in Illinois, John Holliger who runs White Oak precision, that can tune the trigger to the 3 1/2 pound match standard. Many here sing his praises. http://alccrl.org/whiteoak/whiteoak.htm (Make sure you understand how all of the trigger works before you start working on it)
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 12:57:57 PM EDT
Thanks for all the replys. I think I'm going to send my lower with trigger to RRA and let them have a look at the trigger. I have to add that this site is by far the best place for info and also full of nice people. Dunk
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 6:41:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2003 6:47:42 PM EDT by Dano523]
Oldguy hit the problem on the head. Like a M-14 FCG, the first part is to polish the sears to allow a clean break, then to adjust the disconnector to apply pressure just before the break point give you point of reference just before break. On the RRA trigger, the sears self polish by shooting, and with the disconnector set for an unpolished trigger, you loose the reference before sear break because the resistance of the disconnector on the hammer is too light. To see the problem, open the action and cock the hammer. Then slowly pull the trigger (keep something in front of the hammer to keep it from striking the receiver). Just before the hammer releases, the edge of the disconnector (ABOVE THE SEAR) should contact the hammer. This applies both trigger spring pressure (first stage) and additional disconnector spring pressure (second stage) to the pull. To increase the amount of pressure on the second stage, you remove metal from the disconnector at the trigger contact point to cam the disconnector forward. This brings back the second stage that is lost once the sears have self polished and broken in. The sad thing about the trigger is that if the disconnector was set to polish/break in and set after a few hundred rounds is that everyone would bitch about the second stage being too heavy from the start, and few would take the time to break the trigger in to achieve the desired effect. Like all parts, everyone wants perfection from the start, but never takes into account that parts do break in/polish out, and may need to be reset once everything settles in.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 3:47:26 PM EDT
UPDATE. OK, now I really feel like a dumbas_. I went to a dealer close by that deals mainly with AR-15's to ship my lower to RRA. He had a ar-15 with a rra two stage already installed and it felt just like what i have. He said that was normal feel for a RRA trigger and nothing was wrong with mine. Up untill now I had only felt a Knights two stage and it had more of a distinct feel to it, so I quess thats what i was looking for in the RRA's.I'm in no way trashing the RRA two stage it's fine for my target practice gun. Thanks for all the help. Dunk
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 12:26:48 PM EDT
Dano523 a picture would be nice. I have a similar problem and would like to fix it. If I see things correctly my filing will go straight up from bottom as the parts sit in the receiver.
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 5:50:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By gordonm1: Dano523 a picture would be nice. I have a similar problem and would like to fix it. If I see things correctly my filing will go straight up from bottom as the parts sit in the receiver.
View Quote
I can't get/logon to the home server for a couple of weeks, still running remote in Palm Beach. Once I can get a photo of the RRA parts break down, I can walk you threw the tweak, including the needed amount of engagement that the disconnector should have on the hammer (primary sear/hammer movement left before engagement with disconnector) before release. also, if you get a wild hair and start before I can post the write up, your not stoning the contact sears on anything, just the disconnector base pad poit where it rides in the trigger saddle. This allows the disconnector to cam slightly more forward, which increase the second stage engagement pressure of the disconnector on the back of hammer (above the hook).
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 6:29:22 PM EDT
Your tweak may be the fix for my RR trigger in AR10A4. I have had a couple doubles though on Portugese ammo. I wish I had the tool to check my firing pin protrusion too just to be sure the trigger is the problem. So far, removing all lube from engaging surfaces has made the trigger feel crisper and safer. I still need to try it ths way ("dry").
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 2:27:58 PM EDT
The Ar-10 bolt uses a firing pin spring; so don't worry about the pin causing slam fires as long as the pin moves freely in the bolt channel and the firing pin spring is present. What may be happening is that the disconnector is either set to light (finger bouncing), or the disconnector is releasing the hammer before the front hook is in the correct position to retain the hammer (releasing as the jolt bounces your trigger finger ever so slightly). What you may want to check is the disconnector release. Cock the hammer back to be retained by the disconnector, then very slowly release the trigger. If the hammer misses the front hook at a slow trigger release, the disconnector needs to be reset to release the hammer latter in the trigger forward stroke. As far as trigger related problems, Both of listed problems are solved by resetting the disconnector to release the hammer later during the forward stoke, and the same as setting the disconnector to apply more pressure on the second stage stroke during take-up. As soon as I get home, I will do a write up on setting a two stage trigger and post it to help you guys out. Dano
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 5:24:40 AM EDT
Hi Danno; On another subject, what do you think of the Jewell triggers? You appear to be up on AR's and I would like your opinions. I am a 200-300yd non compeditive shooter using a match Bushmaster AR with a 26/7.7 inch Kreiger barrel. My trigger is getting to act differently shot to shot( after 4500 rounds) and my re adjustments per instructions do not seem to help. I have been told to go to a Jewell. pwiz
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 2:08:42 PM EDT
Pwiz, The AR-15 Jewel trigger has set the standards at which all other AR triggers are judged. This is due to the fact that the Jewel trigger is fully adjustable, and can be reset at will to any given persons ideal of what a Semi auto match rifle should be in regards to perfection. If your looking for a match trigger, then you will hard pressed to find a better trigger that is a drop in, and owner tunable. The only real down fall to the trigger has little to do with match shooting, but more to duty use of the rifle. The trigger can be tuned to the point of borderline reliability (read light as hell). With a trigger set this light, the slightest bump on the trigger will set the rifle off. Bottom line is if your rifle is used for match/target shooting, spend the $175 and never look back. ________________________________________________ As for my person choice of triggers, I prefer a Single stage trigger. But, the difference between you/I is that I don't mind spending a few hours every thousand rounds resetting a worked over stock trigger group, and have the tools and time to do so when needed. Also, it helps to have a few extra match/target rifles colleting dust in the safe, and available when a trigger/FCG does go south and needs to be reset. If you have only the single rifle, run with the Jewel trigger. It can reset in as little as a minute in the field if when it goes out to tune. Plus, when you do start to shoot matches, the weight turned up on the spot if you every fail a DCM trigger pull test.
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 5:04:50 AM EDT
dano; Thanks for your input, I will go the jewell route. pwiz
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 10:47:39 AM EDT
pwiz, Just put a Jewell in my RR Varmint. Easy it install and easier to get it adj. just the way I wanted! This is after @$%^*# around with a JARD for the last 3 weeks! Arnold Jewll sure has the right name! Here's some interesting reading on Arnold Jewell and his triggers: http://www.highpowerrifle.com/Jewell.htm Mike Orwan's tips on tuning {at he bottom}: http://www.mikesshooters.com/random2.htm Interview with Arnold Jewell: http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/jan97jewell.html
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