Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4/4/2006 6:26:35 AM EDT
Hello.

Got one of these and will install it soon.
I recall reading that "out of the box" they may have some creep etc which I really don't want in a $100 "match" trigger.
If my trigger has symptoms like that, is it ok to polish the parts? Or are they hardened only on the surface like standard AR trigger parts?
With other rifles I've had very good results, very little effort in terms of polishing usually has given much improvement.
But I wonder if anyone knows if it is ok to do with the RRA National Match 2 Stage trigger.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 6:53:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 6:54:43 AM EDT by ToeBall]
You can polish the parts, it won't hurt anything, but they'll polish out on their own in a few hundred rounds. There's a fair bit of takeup in the trigger, which is your first stage. Who told you it's a "match" trigger? Jewl or White Oaks are match triggers, the RRA is a "National Match" trigger which means it has to work in a manner comprable to a stock, mil-spec, trigger.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 12:52:51 PM EDT
I’ve used the White Oaks Trigger and the RRA. I really like the RRA trigger better. It’s very robust and all of mine break like a glass rod.

I use Moly on the parts and I’ve been very happy.

I’d put the trigger in and shoot it a while before you do anything. You can always pop them out and polish till your hearts content.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:49:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ToeBall:
You can polish the parts, it won't hurt anything, but they'll polish out on their own in a few hundred rounds. There's a fair bit of takeup in the trigger, which is your first stage. Who told you it's a "match" trigger? Jewl or White Oaks are match triggers, the RRA is a "National Match" trigger which means it has to work in a manner comprable to a stock, mil-spec, trigger.



Where the hell did you come up with that line of shit? Do you work in a gunshop or something?


The RRA 2 stage is a non adjustable by the user POS trigger no different in function from a 2 stage POS Bushmaster trigger. These triggers do not need to be used in your "National Match" guns. You can use any trigger that looks like a "stock" trigger from the outside of the rifle. That means that you have to have a curved trigger. Jewel, or Geisselle triggers are adjustable to give you different weights. When shooting in Service Rifle class you must have a trigger that will hold 4.5 pounds. A Match Rifle trigger must hold 3.5 pounds. The difference between a Service Rifle or Match rifle trigger is the weight it must hold, that is all.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 4:21:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 4:25:35 PM EDT by ToeBall]

Originally Posted By HighlandMac:

Originally Posted By ToeBall:
Jewl or White Oaks are match triggers, the RRA is a "National Match" trigger which means it has to work in a manner comprable to a stock, mil-spec, trigger.



Where the hell did you come up with that line of shit? Do you work in a gunshop or something?


The RRA 2 stage is a non adjustable by the user POS trigger no different in function from a 2 stage POS Bushmaster trigger. These triggers do not need to be used in your "National Match" guns. You can use any trigger that looks like a "stock" trigger from the outside of the rifle. That means that you have to have a curved trigger. Jewel, or Geisselle triggers are adjustable to give you different weights. When shooting in Service Rifle class you must have a trigger that will hold 4.5 pounds. A Match Rifle trigger must hold 3.5 pounds. The difference between a Service Rifle or Match rifle trigger is the weight it must hold, that is all.




No, I work in computers... I just like to play with guns.

I never said you MUST use a match or national match trigger in anything anywhere in my post. I also said a National Match trigger must function in a manner compatible with the stock spec trigger. Most match triggers are adjustable, but not all. National Match triggers are not adjustable by their very definition. A Bushmaster stock trigger or a Rock River stock trigger or an Oly stock trigger being a POS is purley a subjective opinion. They are RELIABLE. I, personally, happen to like the way a stock Oly trigger feels, and lover the way the RRA 2-stage feels. One thing to keep in mind is that if the rifle is to be used for self defense, there are legal implications to using a match trigger because the gun is modified in a manner making it easier to fire. A national match trigger is, by design a stock trigger, weather or not it is cleaned up. Don't get me wrong, if you're hunting or killing nothing but paper, then match triggers are awesome, but if you use it as a looter shooter be ready to get sued. I'm not even going to get started on the misconception and misuse of "match" and "match grade".
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 5:43:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ToeBall:

Originally Posted By HighlandMac:

Originally Posted By ToeBall:
Jewl or White Oaks are match triggers, the RRA is a "National Match" trigger which means it has to work in a manner comprable to a stock, mil-spec, trigger.



Where the hell did you come up with that line of shit? Do you work in a gunshop or something?


The RRA 2 stage is a non adjustable by the user POS trigger no different in function from a 2 stage POS Bushmaster trigger. These triggers do not need to be used in your "National Match" guns. You can use any trigger that looks like a "stock" trigger from the outside of the rifle. That means that you have to have a curved trigger. Jewel, or Geisselle triggers are adjustable to give you different weights. When shooting in Service Rifle class you must have a trigger that will hold 4.5 pounds. A Match Rifle trigger must hold 3.5 pounds. The difference between a Service Rifle or Match rifle trigger is the weight it must hold, that is all.




No, I work in computers... I just like to play with guns.

I never said you MUST use a match or national match trigger in anything anywhere in my post. I also said a National Match trigger must function in a manner compatible with the stock spec trigger. Most match triggers are adjustable, but not all. National Match triggers are not adjustable by their very definition. A Bushmaster stock trigger or a Rock River stock trigger or an Oly stock trigger being a POS is purley a subjective opinion. They are RELIABLE. I, personally, happen to like the way a stock Oly trigger feels, and lover the way the RRA 2-stage feels. One thing to keep in mind is that if the rifle is to be used for self defense, there are legal implications to using a match trigger because the gun is modified in a manner making it easier to fire. A national match trigger is, by design a stock trigger, weather or not it is cleaned up. Don't get me wrong, if you're hunting or killing nothing but paper, then match triggers are awesome, but if you use it as a looter shooter be ready to get sued. I'm not even going to get started on the misconception and misuse of "match" and "match grade".



Function like a stock trigger how? What the hell does that mean? If you mean one one shot per pull that is about all that need to be the same.

Have you ever shot a CMP match? Have you been to Camp Perry for the National Matches? Have you read the fucking CMP or NRA rule book? If not you should stick to computers instead of giving shitty misinformed advice about what you can use in a match. By your statement no 2 stage triggers are allowed at the National Matches. You missed that one. Nearly every gun at the Nationals during CMP and NRA week has a 2 stage trigger.

He never said what the hell he is doing with the trigger he only asked what can be done to make it better.

Your self defence and reliability argument dont work either. If 2 stage triggers are so unreliable why has the M1 Garand never had these reliability issues? Or the 03 Springfields? Or any of the other main battle rifles of WWII with 2 stage triggers? A good trigger is just that. I have thousands of rounds through my Jewel triggers and they have never failed. I have 3 of them in different guns and all work flawless.

A good (legal) shoot in self defense is a good shoot regardless of the gun used. Should everyone not carry a 1911 because the trigger is easier to pull and more "dangerous" than a Glock? Should everyone carry a wheel gun so they have the "least" dangerous and hardest to shoot gun to defend ones self with?

No offense but where do you come up with this?


Sorry for the rant but some of your statements are just outlandish.

For the original question a little bit of Flitz on a cotton Dremel wheel works great to polish the sear engagement surfaces. You dont need to make a mirror and you shouldnt go through the hardend part of the trigger. You can also put a lighter weight trigger spring in it to take a littel weight off the first stage.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:43:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 7:45:51 PM EDT by ToeBall]

Originally Posted By HighlandMac:

Originally Posted By ToeBall:
No, I work in computers... I just like to play with guns.

I never said you MUST use a match or national match trigger in anything anywhere in my post. I also said a National Match trigger must function in a manner compatible with the stock spec trigger. Most match triggers are adjustable, but not all. National Match triggers are not adjustable by their very definition. A Bushmaster stock trigger or a Rock River stock trigger or an Oly stock trigger being a POS is purley a subjective opinion. They are RELIABLE. I, personally, happen to like the way a stock Oly trigger feels, and lover the way the RRA 2-stage feels. One thing to keep in mind is that if the rifle is to be used for self defense, there are legal implications to using a match trigger because the gun is modified in a manner making it easier to fire. A national match trigger is, by design a stock trigger, weather or not it is cleaned up. Don't get me wrong, if you're hunting or killing nothing but paper, then match triggers are awesome, but if you use it as a looter shooter be ready to get sued. I'm not even going to get started on the misconception and misuse of "match" and "match grade".



Function like a stock trigger how? What the hell does that mean? If you mean one one shot per pull that is about all that need to be the same.

Have you ever shot a CMP match? Have you been to Camp Perry for the National Matches? Have you read the fucking CMP or NRA rule book? If not you should stick to computers instead of giving shitty misinformed advice about what you can use in a match. By your statement no 2 stage triggers are allowed at the National Matches. You missed that one. Nearly every gun at the Nationals during CMP and NRA week has a 2 stage trigger.

He never said what the hell he is doing with the trigger he only asked what can be done to make it better.

Your self defence and reliability argument dont work either. If 2 stage triggers are so unreliable why has the M1 Garand never had these reliability issues? Or the 03 Springfields? Or any of the other main battle rifles of WWII with 2 stage triggers? A good trigger is just that. I have thousands of rounds through my Jewel triggers and they have never failed. I have 3 of them in different guns and all work flawless.

A good (legal) shoot in self defense is a good shoot regardless of the gun used. Should everyone not carry a 1911 because the trigger is easier to pull and more "dangerous" than a Glock? Should everyone carry a wheel gun so they have the "least" dangerous and hardest to shoot gun to defend ones self with?

No offense but where do you come up with this?

Sorry for the rant but some of your statements are just outlandish.

For the original question a little bit of Flitz on a cotton Dremel wheel works great to polish the sear engagement surfaces. You dont need to make a mirror and you shouldnt go through the hardend part of the trigger. You can also put a lighter weight trigger spring in it to take a littel weight off the first stage.




Let's see... according to the CMP rule book
6.1.1 (1) Trigger Pull: Must be at least 4.5 lbs, except as otherwise perscribed in the rules.
6.1.3 (5) No modification may interfere with the original functioning of the rifle and its saftey devices.
6.1.3 (6) No modification may change the external configuration of the rifle.

So, you must have at least 4.5 lbs of pull and as much take up as an "as-issued" rifle. That's what's required to make it national match

You can tune a match trigger to perform as national match but you can also tune it to be better. You cannot, however, tune an as issued trigger to perform better because it's no longer as issued.

I've never been to camp perry or competed, but that dosen't mean I don't have a very fine apreciation of the intent behind the rules for CMP. Now for my question... have you actually read my post or skimmed it? You seem to put some odd data coming from me which I don't seem to have typed.

I never said anything about what the orignal poster was doing with his rifle, I mearly asked who had told him that a RRA 2-stage is a "match" trigger. I'm sure, if you correctly read my post you would agree that it is not a "match" trigger. I also never said or implied that a WOA, Jissel, or Jewl trigger were inferior products or that they were illegal for any purpose, however you seem to be implying that I did.

I never stated that 2-stage triggers were unreliable, infact I said the EXACT OPPOSITE. I did, however warn that a "match" trigger can lead to a civil lawsuit because the firearm is modified to allow it to be fired easier. Clean shoot or not, civil court is NOT criminal court. If you don't belive me, as any descent lawyer. If you have a stock trigger in your 1911 from a manufacturer with a descent reputation then you shouldn't have any problems. If, on the other hand, you have a spring for a softer trigger pull in your Glock, you are open to that form of attack. You can be shown in court to be a gun crazy maniac who modifyed his gun to make it easier to kill people, regardless of weather or not it is true. And Glock wouldn't even have to send anyone to testify on how safe their gun is because you modified a saftey mechanism. But yes, for the most part defense firearms have a heavy trigger, not because you're likely to accidentally discharge (though that actually is a possibility while on an adrenaline rush) but because it's percived (not actually is) to be another level of safety added to the weapon.

My source is a police trainer on this and another forum I'm on who specifically warned me about it because he's seen it on more than one occasion.

My statements may seem outlandish unless you actually READ THEM PROPERLY. But then again, what do I know, I only work on computers...

Oh, and by the way, have the courtesy to at least trim your quotes.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 9:34:33 PM EDT
I am certainly no expert, but the whole "change the trigger, you're in trouble thing" is the oddest thing I have ever heard...

Are you saying if I use an Aimpoint or EOtech, I have made the rifle more lethal because I
can aim faster and more effectively?

If I use a VFG because it makes the rifle handle better?

A flashlight??

That said, I run a WOA tuned RRA 2-stage and I love it for what it is.
Just hope I don't have to defend my life with it.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 7:37:55 AM EDT

Well at the extreme risk of sounding like an Old hen or a Kill joy or Stuck in the Mud......I will offer you some comments on modifying the trigger group of your Gun.

If you are going to use your handgun "strictly" for pleasure shooting....and puching holes in paper at your local Gun Range then you need not read any further. Modify your gun to your hearts content.

But if you are going to use your handgun for home defense or personal defense........then there are some important issues you should be aware of. Discounting the obvious safety issues of maybe having a FTF in a life and death struggle.There was an in depth discussion of these issues on the S&W forum not to long ago where members described their "real life" incounters with the Law and Civil courts.......regarding the use of deadly force for self defense. So these points are not " could happen or might happen...........but they are actually what did happen and can happen again.

Shoot someone with a gun......and that gun will be taken into evidence( that's a given). That gun will be examined closely by the State and and any attorney hired by (family of) the person shot. When they find that the gun was modified to shoot faster or easier..........you the "shooter" will be made out to be a cold blooded killer...just looking to kill someone. Your image will be one of a person that took a deadly weapon.......and just had to go out and make changes so it would be easier to kill .

Of course, this is all B.S. but they ( attorneys) will march the company rep.s that built the gun ...into court and ask them if this modification is recommended or safe. You will not find one company that will support your modifications--period! Even S&W when they receive a gun for warranty work will remove "any" modifcations to the springs to avoid liability in a court action......and they tell you that before you send them the gun.

So there you sit in court labeled a killer.......building guns to kill faster and easier........do you get the picture. Of course your attorney will do what he can to put you in a better light...but juries nowadays are mostly anti-gun. The guy on the S&W forum was a law enforcement officer and he was found guilty as charged in a "civil Court Action" where the proof can be much less than in a criminal action. Luckily for him he had a friendly judge that fixed his sentence to a fine of $100, which he paid right away. Will you be as lucky ?

The cost of a trial defending yourself is extremely high ( and can destroy your family's finances)..........what you don't need is an attorney going after you in Civil court "loaded" with the facts that you modified a gun so it would be easier to Use ( kill).

I have seen it too many times..........juries are willing to bend over backwards for the criminals or attcakers if they get hurt by the average citizen........why this is so baffles me to this day........but it doesn't change the facts.

I would never use a modified gun for CCW or home defense, where I am altering the mechanical nature of the weapon and is not 100% supported by factory gunsmiths !!

Off my soap box now <smile>

JF



I hope Sniper350 dosen't mind me cut/pasting from a different forum.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 6:37:28 PM EDT
Some very good info. Thank you, Toeball.
So, is there nothing to do about a very hard trigger pull in a home defence ar?
Top Top