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Posted: 2/22/2007 3:28:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2007 4:02:12 PM EST by lawdawg430]
Today I noticed I got nearly a dozen or so ricochets firing 55 grain fmj from my 16 inch Bushy out of 50 rounds fired. With the 62 grain fmj I don't remember any ricochets. How many people get killed or injured each year as a result of ricochets? I am searching for some numbers.
Found some info regarding bullet weight and ricochets: from Tactical Ops,


In such situations, officers can address vehicle or barrier penetration with the Federal TAP barrier penetrator or the recently introduced Corbon DPX solid copper round. Each of these bullets is designed to penetrate barriers with minimal deflection while retaining sufficient weight and velocity to make deep wounds. A number of federal agencies (e.g., DEA, FBI, etc.) issue the 62-grain Federal Tactical round as the primary duty load for the above reasons.

Yet populated, high-density locations may require the reduced penetration and ricochet potential found in more frangible projectiles, such as a 55-grain soft-point. Deploying the .223 with 55-grain soft point in a residential structure, school or workplace environment reduces the likelihood of a bullet passing through multiple walls or doors and striking an unintended person.


FRANGIBLE BULLETS REDUCE RICOCHETS AND ARE EQUALLY EFFECTIVE re: Tissue damage?

Centerfire Frangible Ammunition: Wounding Potential and Other Forensic Concerns.

Articles

American Journal of Forensic Medicine & Pathology. 19(4):299-302, December 1998.
Kaplan, James M.D.; Klose, Roger; Fossum, Roger M.D. *; Di Maio, Vincent J. M. M.D.
Abstract:
Recently developed frangible ammunition of copper particulate construction in .38 Special, 9 mm, and .223 calibers was evaluated for wounding performance by firing into pigs' heads. The ability to match fired bullets with the corresponding gun was also examined. Results showed that wounds caused by 9-mm and .38 Special frangible bullets were comparable in severity to those caused by regular service ammunition of the same caliber. The recovered 9-mm and .38 Special bullets demonstrated class characteristics but not the individual rifling marks necessary for bullet-to-gun matching. High-velocity .223-caliber rifle bullets fragmented extensively within target tissues, causing severe wounding. Radiologic examination of resulting wounds showed images strikingly similar to the lead "snowstorm" picture caused by high-velocity hunting ammunition.

(C) 1998 Lippincott Williams
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 3:31:40 PM EST
Probably about as many as deer killed with tracers.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 3:33:09 PM EST
WHAT the?
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 3:36:56 PM EST
Um, yeah.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 3:44:24 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 3:47:33 PM EST
How do you know it was riccocheting? It could have been breaking up and it was nothing but fragments. I shoot at steel in the backyard with 9mm and it'll cut the leaves to hell on the trees overhanging the target area. However, it just bullet splash, not it riccocheting.
Link Posted: 2/22/2007 3:54:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By fxntime:
How do you know it was riccocheting? It could have been breaking up and it was nothing but fragments. I shoot at steel in the backyard with 9mm and it'll cut the leaves to hell on the trees overhanging the target area. However, it just bullet splash, not it riccocheting.


I can tell by the sound it makes,and it may be fragments of the bullet, but it is still ricocheting. Also, like my friend up there will tell you, i fire tracers from time to time and you can really see and hear the ricochet then.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 1:34:20 AM EST
Were you shooting at steel targets? I wouldn't doubt some ricochets if you were hitting rock behind your target.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 1:40:46 AM EST
I have heard it, too...scary shit...off the berm..

fred
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 4:30:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 4:39:52 AM EST
<Mr. Garrison>Children, children... this is all horribly, horribly wrong! </Mr. Garrison>
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 5:01:25 AM EST
In order to avoid richochets, you need to make sure that the backstop is adequate to the task. In other words, dont shoot at hard-packed flat ground, or water at shallow angles, or rocky hillsides. Placing cans on the ground 25-100 yards away is probably one of the most common mistakes that leads to richochets. Instead, shoot at soft packed dirt banks, or properly designed bullet traps.

As was mentioned, shooting a steel (flat on, not at a shallow angle) causes the bullet to splash rather than richochet. Sometimes a nearly completet bullet will bounce nearly straight back, but has lost most of its velocity when it does-so.

Dave.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 5:13:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By hatt:
Probably about as many as deer killed with tracers TAZERS.


Link Posted: 2/23/2007 5:42:55 AM EST
Talking about richottes...

My bro and I were shooting at those mini CO2 cartridges about 25 yards away on a hillside with a 9mm. One of them exploded, made the pzoooing sound, and flew back at us and barely missed my brothers head. The thing must have been going at about 400 fps, it was really hauling ass... That stopped the activitly quickly enough
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 3:55:39 PM EST
When I was a kid of about 13/14 I took apart one of my shot-gun shells and placed the EMPTY shell on a stool about 15yds away in my back yard. I then broke out my Sheridan Silver Streak(that's a .20cal/5mil for you youngsters) airgun,God I miss that thing! Anyway,I sat on a lawn chair and crossed my left leg over my right and used it for a rest,shot and heard a small POW! and then:zzzrrt! and got this stinging sensation on my inner right thigh! I just barely hit the primer enough to set off and send racing back to me! The damn thing was going fast enough to tear through my trusty 501's and stick in my leg! I puuled down my pants and sure enough,there was the primer stuck in my leg. I still have the small scar to remind me. Good times!!
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 4:07:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By raygixxer89:
When I was a kid of about 13/14 I took apart one of my shot-gun shells and placed the EMPTY shell on a stool about 15yds away in my back yard. I then broke out my Sheridan Silver Streak(that's a .20cal/5mil for you youngsters) airgun,God I miss that thing! Anyway,I sat on a lawn chair and crossed my left leg over my right and used it for a rest,shot and heard a small POW! and then:zzzrrt! and got this stinging sensation on my inner right thigh! I just barely hit the primer enough to set off and send racing back to me! The damn thing was going fast enough to tear through my trusty 501's and stick in my leg! I puuled down my pants and sure enough,there was the primer stuck in my leg. I still have the small scar to remind me. Good times!!



Link Posted: 2/23/2007 4:26:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/23/2007 4:27:13 PM EST by lawdawg430]

Originally Posted By raygixxer89:
When I was a kid of about 13/14 I took apart one of my shot-gun shells and placed the EMPTY shell on a stool about 15yds away in my back yard. I then broke out my Sheridan Silver Streak(that's a .20cal/5mil for you youngsters) airgun,God I miss that thing! Anyway,I sat on a lawn chair and crossed my left leg over my right and used it for a rest,shot and heard a small POW! and then:zzzrrt! and got this stinging sensation on my inner right thigh! I just barely hit the primer enough to set off and send racing back to me! The damn thing was going fast enough to tear through my trusty 501's and stick in my leg! I puuled down my pants and sure enough,there was the primer stuck in my leg. I still have the small scar to remind me. Good times!!


Sorry about the scar there, but its a good reminder huh? That's crazy. I had a buddy who would do the same activity until he got hit. Hey, you are not from S. Texas are you?

(back on topic) The background I was shooting into was a large dirt pile or birm, six feet high and 8 feet thick, from a refuse pit. I would get ricochets when i would rapid fire or burst. Lead me to think the bullet was hitting the bullet in front of it and ricocheting off of it. Is that possible?
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 4:45:28 PM EST
I moved to Harlingen when I was about 10. Graduated from Harlingen High in '87(back when there was still only one HS in town). We lived about 1/4 mile away from Dixieland Lake,it was a water resevior,we used to ride out there on our dirt bikes and shoot the snapping turtles and water-mocassins and do some bass fishing. As far as the ricochets,you were probably hitting something solid just under the surface of the soil.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 10:29:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/23/2007 10:30:14 PM EST by dpmmn]
Link Posted: 2/24/2007 12:50:05 AM EST
I have 31 grs. of a 7.62x39 round in my left shoulder muscle. 18 yrs old, shooting the SKS at scrap, in front of the old oak tree. I decided to try and dent a 1 1/2" X 1 1/2" iron block. Well, it blasted the the block out of sight, but in the process, sent 1/3 of the bullet back into my left shoulder muscle, 1/4" away from my shoulder socket. After a 30 minute solo drive to the ER, while bleeding profusely, and eight x-rays later, the doc strapped on a piece of gauze and said it would do more harm to remove it than to leave it in there. I have a nice scar to remind me. To this day, I get chills when shooting at steel plates....and that was twelve years ago.
Link Posted: 2/24/2007 12:40:57 PM EST
The sound you hear on a ricochet is the sound of energy being shed really fast. Close to the point of ricochet it would be an ugly wound, but when it goes spinning off into the air flopping around so much you can hear it, it ain't going far befor it falls. Not like it's going to reach the next city and kill 3 children playing soccer.
Link Posted: 2/24/2007 4:40:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By lawdawg430:

Originally Posted By fxntime:
How do you know it was riccocheting? It could have been breaking up and it was nothing but fragments. I shoot at steel in the backyard with 9mm and it'll cut the leaves to hell on the trees overhanging the target area. However, it just bullet splash, not it riccocheting.


I can tell by the sound it makes,and it may be fragments of the bullet, but it is still ricocheting. Also, like my friend up there will tell you, i fire tracers from time to time and you can really see and hear the ricochet then.


Tracers don't ricochet any more than regular ammo. A lot of the time, when you see what looks like ricochets with tracers it's just the tracer element breaking off the back of the bullet at impact and going off on its own.
Link Posted: 2/24/2007 4:54:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/25/2007 4:27:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

Originally Posted By eswanson:
Tracers don't ricochet any more than regular ammo. A lot of the time, when you see what looks like ricochets with tracers it's just the tracer element breaking off the back of the bullet at impact and going off on its own.


I think his point was.... fire some tracers to wake you up to the fact of how many rounds you *dont* hear skip right off the berm and keep going.

I always hear about that tracer compund breaking loose.... but in my experience when firing tracers into a berm - a large precentage of them impacted, and kept right on going. It is very obvious when a compound breaks loose, vs a round deflection.
Yeah,you can tell when a tracer frags just by the speed in which its going after the impact. Sometimes they loop-d-loop and other times they take off with authority!
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