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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/17/2006 8:05:20 PM EDT
I've been shooting my AR since around august usually every other weekend or so and have about 2500 rounds fired through it. My accuracy has steadily improved over time to where I am right now.

My equipment:
DPMS 16" M4 with free float rail handguards

Current results:
I can make consistent 2-3" groups with as many shots as i want in slow fire at 50 yards, and put about 2/3 of my shots on a 5" Shoot N See at 100 yrds, again in slow fire. I fire sitting at a bench with my rifle supported on a bipod. I'm using stock iron sights with IBZ.

I've been spending a lot of time practicing my aiming, breathing and trigger squeeze. I think I'm getting to the point where I am not seeing much more improvement.

What I'd like to know is what kind of REALISTIC grouping I can expect with my setup? I'm a young guy with good eyes (about ready to head off to pilot school if that says anything). Even with my eyes the target and the front sight seem to blend at 100 yards.

If I can get significantly better, I would appreciate some advice on HOW to do so. Thanks for the help.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:06:30 PM EDT
Start doing dry fire.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:18:53 PM EDT

I'd say that, realistically, you should be able to put all of your shots in the 5" circle at 100 yards on a good day - with iron sights (if your eyes are still good).

I agree with the "dry fire" advice. When I was a kid (about 10 or 11), and first started shooting, I would spend a lot of time dry-firing, really practicing breathing and getting the trigger pull down.


Link Posted: 1/17/2006 9:39:00 PM EDT
We use to teach 'minute of coffe cup' shooting in the 60's when I was in the Army. If you could keep your shots inside an area which could be covered by a coffer cup rim, you were shooting just fine.

Remember, combat shooting is also about getting a 'good enough' shot off 1st, not trying for a perfect shot and ending up second.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 5:48:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By USAF_Hop_N_Pop:
Even with my eyes the target and the front sight seem to blend at 100 yards.



This statement makes me wonder if you aren't losing focus on your front sight......if you do lose focus, your groups will open up.

My $0.02

Link Posted: 1/18/2006 6:01:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 6:04:38 AM EDT by QUIB]

Originally Posted By USAF_Hop_N_Pop:
Even with my eyes the target and the front sight seem to blend at 100 yards.




You might be trying too hard. If I shoot too much I start to strain my eyes and my vision goes blurry. After that I get the same effect as your getting with your sights going blurry.

You might want to reduce your range time a bit. On average I shoot about 180-200 rounds per session. But you have to be complimented on your determination to better your shooting skills!
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 6:06:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 6:09:20 AM EDT by Dorsai]
At 50yds from the bench, if you are using proper technique you should be able to keep your group the size of a quarter or better.

It's been a long time since I did high power competition, but as I recall, 200 yds was shot off hand standing and to be competitive, you needed to keep your shots in a 6" group or less.

The key is a sharp, hard focus on the front sight. Take a breath and let it half out and hold. Steady pressure on the trigger and don't try to make it shoot. Let it fire. Don't try to time it to any movement. If you do, you'll be looking at the target, not your front sight and you'll likely jerk the trigger. Shoot your group and THEN look to see where they hit. If you shoot, look, adjust, shoot, look, adjust, you'll never have a group because you keep shifting. Shoot the group first, then adjust.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 6:54:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 7:01:25 AM EDT by RRA-A2]
From a bench? I'd think you'd get better than what you are.

I'm starting to shoot paper more now that I have a good sling. I've never shot it from a bipod/bench, but I'll try it sometime just to see.

Here's 50 yards, sitting, tight sling, rapid, A2 irons on a 20" non-floated rifle.
The 4oz. can of CLP is there as size reference.


The wind was blowing left to right at about 15 to 20-ish mph. Probobly blowing the rifle and me more than the bullets. I know I have ALOT of room to improve that group, but it's a start.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 7:07:04 AM EDT
Dry fire a lot.. lay a dime on the barrel near the muzzel, the goal is to keep the dime on the barrel while you pull the trigger.

Link Posted: 1/18/2006 8:24:21 AM EDT
With the front sight bending it sounds to me like you might have beginning stages of Macular Degeneration. Usually common in older adults but is generally the number one reason why so many people need long term care assisted living.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 8:39:10 AM EDT
Go to jarheadtop.com and read the sample chapters to "Sight Alignment, Trigger Control and the Big Lie". I did and it has helped my shooting already. I plan to order the book next.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 9:37:03 AM EDT
I was kidding.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:02:58 AM EDT
A few months ago I E-mailed DPMS to ask if they had an accuracy guarantee on their rifles. I believe their reply was that their rifles are in the 3/4" - 1 1/2" MOA range at 100 yards. I'm assuming that's with match ammo.

If you're using regular non-match ammo and only a bipod with bench for support, you're not doing too bad with irons in my opinion. You should consider getting involved in something like the Civiliam Marksmanship Program (CMP) if you want to improve your skills further and learn to shoot in other positions that may prove useful in the field.

I also second that you should read the referenced article at jarheadtop.com and incorporate some dry fire into your practice routine.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:00:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IANick:
Go to jarheadtop.com and read the sample chapters to "Sight Alignment, Trigger Control and the Big Lie". I did and it has helped my shooting already. I plan to order the book next.



BIG + 1 on this.... download the sample chapters, read them till they make sense, dry firing will help alot.

All of this advice has been great, it's just alot to think of at the same time when you're new, and trying to improve.

Sight picture, focus on front sight post, etc all contribute. It's consistancy that you're after. Keep up the good work, it's great to see someone focused on getting better.
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