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Posted: 9/26/2004 3:38:06 PM EST

Well, I have a Bushmaster M4A3 on the way right now, so after that I am looking at getting a longer range weapon for shooting in the prone. I am not an accomplished long range shooter right now, but I have a long range operators' course coming up soon, I hope. Anyway, purely because of personal preference, I want a 20" A4 in 5.56mm, as 'bone stock' as possible. I will add a good optic,Harris bipod, and possibly one of those new drop in two-stage triggers, but that will be about it.

So, I need to know which stock A2 offers the best accuracy out of the box. Also, recommendations on quality glass would certainly be appreciated. I have a 600 yard range available nearby, and I hope to get MOA out to 500 yards or so. Thanks for any advice.

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:17:01 PM EST
I would like to hear of your accuracy results as well.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:21:42 PM EST
I have a standard 1/9 twist Bushmaster A3 20" rifle.

It is very accurate up to 200 yds(Never tried beyond that yet)

It shoots under 1 MOA at 100 from a benchrest.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:22:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By Timanator:
I have a standard 1/9 twist Bushmaster A3 20" rifle.

It is very accurate up to 200 yds(Never tried beyond that yet)

It shoots under 1 MOA at 100 from a benchrest.



Can I ask how much that set you back? What optics are you using? Thanks.

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 4:28:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 4:30:55 PM EST by 223-4me]
this is my results with my stock 20" Bushy with 9x scope shooting 77grain moly(most accurate)
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=201197
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:08:21 PM EST
Just get a bushy varminter model and forget about who has the best ,, unless you go to a custom builder. I shoot p-dogs 3"wide 9" tall target with my old eagle arms action master at 400 yrds with almost 0 misses and a very few misses at 500 yrds. on a calm day.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:06:59 PM EST
Rock River Arms hands down....

Rock rivers are preffered by many competition shooters, and are often used right off the shelf with no modifications, the fit and finnish is top notch, and there known for haveing an unusually tight fit an aspect prized by competition shooters no accu-wedge is needed there so tight you might not even be able to get one to fit in the first place.... There also built heavier makeing them more durabal and also cutting back the recoil slightly, and the quality of finnish is equally good, they just look good silky smooth, when I first held mine I could have sworn it was plastic if I hadn't have known better, and the finnish matches up the best I've seen I bought my upper and lower seperately from 2 differant sources at differant dates and the finnish matches up completely, also Rock Rivers usualy come standard with a 2 stage match trigger, and it's a drop in part meaning theres no modifications made to the rifle so you can take it out and drop in the standard trigger if you like, and to top it off Rock River is one of the cheaper manufacturors hundreds of dollars less than Bushmaster, and Colt....

The biggest issue though is the generic 1:9 barrel, this is a compromise to except the wide range of commertial ammunition it is not desighned for long range shooting, and cannot properly stabolize heavier bullets like the kind that would best perform at long range I would reccomend the correct 1:7 barrel and for very long range shooting Seirra Match Kings, Rock river says they don't make these barrels so you'll have to use another manufacturor Bushmaster makes 1:7 barrels but you'll have to spetial order them, or you can also use a Colt barrel, as they seem to be about the only manufacturor still mass produceing them, or you could use Fultan Armory as they have a small supply of millitary over-run barrels from FN, you can install the barrel, yourself, have a gunsmith do it or if you order your rifle or just upper reciever from ADCO you can send them your barrel and install it for free and take $100 off the price of the upper, or complete rifle your ordering....

As for 4 MOA at 500 yards how shall I put this not a chance in hell, the rifle is not capable of that unless you get a VERY unusual one, not in stock anyway (and by the way I applaud your choice to make it as correct as possible, most people like to put on at the gee-wiz, super duper "tactical" stuff, it's refreshing to see that I am not the only one who is after authenticity....) in order to get that kind of accuracy out of an AR it would requir pretty extensive modification, that and you say tour new to long range shooting even if your rifle were capable of 1 MOA at that distance, but your only a 10 MOA shooter meaning that good rifle or not 10 inches is the best you can manage then the best possible group you could get would be 10 inches, which isn't bad actually even useing a match quality rifle like a Rock River, and useing Match grade ammunition 10 inches is about the best you can expect, and if particularly as a new shooter your getting 10 inch groups at 500 yards your doing pretty good....
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:42:01 PM EST
Luepold has always been on my center fires...

Snag a Rifleman for 250 bucks for a 4x12.


Good stuff...


Paps has one on his .17HMR and its nice, need an Armalite scope mount, some A2 HG's and then I can slap one on my AR. I have the Cabelas Alasakan Guide Compact 3-9x32 scope...

Its okay, but I would rather the gold ring
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:45:20 PM EST

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:46:13 PM EST
that wasn't for you ich.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:58:19 PM EST
Oh okay... I was going for the shovel...


Gunno have to whup your ass

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:51:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 3:52:09 AM EST by Griz]

Originally Posted By 9245:
As for 4 MOA at 500 yards how shall I put this not a chance in hell, the rifle is not capable of that unless you get a VERY unusual one,



I have to disagree violently with you there. Even the most beat-up, shot-out AR15 should easily shoot 4 MOA at 500 yards! Heck, the bullet could be tumbling by the time it got there and still do 4 MOA.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:04:12 AM EST
I think he means 4 inches
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 4:14:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 5:21:03 AM EST by FALARAK]
People.... MOA DOES NOT CHANGE WITH DISTANCE.

4MOA @500 yds is still 4MOA. This means a 20" group at 500 yds.

1MOA = 1" group at 100yds.
1MOA = 2" group at 200yds.
1MOA = 4" group at 400yds.
1MOA = 10" group at 1000yds.

1MOA = 1" group at 100yds.
2MOA = 2" group at 100yds.
4MOA = 4" group at 100yds.
10MOA = 10" group at 100yds.


If you mean inches... say inches.

So.... the BEST standard rifles can shoot 1MOA.... typically... with match ammo. As one of the other posted said... for a box stock rifle, the Bushy varminter is going to do better, simply because out of the box it is designed with long range shooting in mind.... and is common to be *sub* MOA.... at any range, as long as the bullet is still stable. The tiny .223 bullet is going to be affected more by the environment at longer distances..... so typically you see it measured out to 600yds.... and only further in extreme cases....

Only thing I could say, for long range shooting.... get a good quality barrel and free float it. Kreiger, White Oak, Compass, etc.... If you want an off the shelf... then Bushy Vmatch or varminter..... if you dont mind heavy, then the RRA varmint upper is sweet, but heavy.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:09:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By FALARAK:

1MOA = 1" group at 100yds.
2MOA = 2" group at 200yds.
4MOA = 4" group at 400yds.
10MOA = 10" group at 1000yds.




Uh...aren't those ALL 1 MOA groups?

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:20:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 5:21:40 AM EST by FALARAK]

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:
Uh...aren't those ALL 1 MOA groups?



DOH!!!! I tried to explain it and screwed it up. Editing!
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:21:17 AM EST
There.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:28:36 AM EST
OK, so this might be a dumb question but what in the heck is MOA refering too.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:29:07 AM EST
1 MOA equals one inch at 100 yards. (Actually, 1 MOA equals 1.047 inches at 100 yards. Because .047 is so minute, it is not taken into consideration.

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:30:03 AM EST
Well. With all due respect to 9245, I'd have to bring up DPMS. I have their "20" panther classic" and cannot say anything negative at all. Fit/finish are immaculate, and even. The rifle currently has a (yeah I know) belive it or not, Tasco varminting scope 2.5x-10x(42-44 obj.adj for parallax) true mil-dot mounted on the carry handle, A2 stock, with the "Delta cheek piece", Panther arms target grip, and Harris bi-pod. Also, Smith muzzle break. On a good day, and when the pilot does his job, I can get 5rounds into 0.38 of an inch. Never tried the Rock River, but from the replies on here I'd guess they JUST might be liked.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:03:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By azeagle:
OK, so this might be a dumb question but what in the heck is MOA refering too.



MOA stands for minute of angle - a mathematic term. I will probably screw up this half-assed description, but here goes.

A circle can be divided into 360 degrees. Each degree is divided into 60 minutes. If you made a circle with a 100 yard radius, each minute would be exactly 1 inch apart. Double that at 200 yards, etc.

Does that help? I THINK that is it.

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