Question re. BATF rules

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Question re. BATF rules

Posted: 12/14/2005 5:04:14 AM EDT

Maybe this has been beaten to death, but I find so much conflicting info out there. Perhaps someone who actually assembles and sells ARs could help me.

I want to start selling ARs that I've assembled. Since I'm not manufacturing the lower, do I need anything more than an FFL (and insurance)? Someone wrote on another forum that you can assemble and sell up to 5 in a year w/o an FFL but that sounds far too reasonable for a BATF rule.

Please enlighten me.

Posted: 12/14/2005 5:35:52 AM EDT

[#1]

IIRC, once you start selling rifles at retail, to make a profit, you need an FFL. There is no set number of rifles in any set time frame that defines one as a 'dealer'. GCA 68 is confusing, call the ATF or consult witha firearms attorney. Charles the Gunsmith.

Posted: 12/14/2005 5:49:12 AM EDT

[#2]

Don't forget about the excise tax that will be due when you complete the rifle.

Posted: 12/14/2005 6:49:52 AM EDT

[#3]

tax is only needed if you make more than 25 a year, NRA had this info in there mags a month or two back, along with the bill no.

Posted: 12/14/2005 4:35:09 PM EDT

[#4]

Is it true that has long as it is only uppers you build and sell you don't need to worry about the FFL or BATF stuff?

Posted: 12/14/2005 4:55:35 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
tax is only needed if you make more than 25 a year, NRA had this info in there mags a month or two back, along with the bill no.

Actually it is 50...

Posted: 12/14/2005 6:19:43 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
tax is only needed if you make more than 25 a year, NRA had this info in there mags a month or two back, along with the bill no.

Actually it is 50...

I know you would just be "assembling" them, but wouldn't you need to be licensed as a manufacturer? Forgive my ignorance......but this always confuses me.....
Cheers,
Dave

Posted: 12/14/2005 6:28:12 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
tax is only needed if you make more than 25 a year, NRA had this info in there mags a month or two back, along with the bill no.

Actually it is 50...

I have my Type 07 FFL, and when I started building Rifles, the BATF told me that I had to add the tax on every rifle I build, and I have to fill out a form yearly, on how many rifles, or pistols that I have built that year.

There was no number of rifles I could build with out tax.

Where is this info comming from ?

Or did the BATF lie to me, and I am getting screwed.

Posted: 12/14/2005 6:31:13 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
tax is only needed if you make more than 25 a year, NRA had this info in there mags a month or two back, along with the bill no.

Actually it is 50...

I know you would just be "assembling" them, but wouldn't you need to be licensed as a manufacturer? Forgive my ignorance......but this always confuses me.....
Cheers,
Dave

Yes, at least that is what they told me.

Posted: 12/14/2005 7:08:36 PM EDT

[#9]

I believe the important item is intent. If you are assembling/manufacturing the rifles IN ORDER TO RESELL THEM then you would be a manufacturer and need to pay the tax, licensing, etc. If you are selling off some previous builds or otherwise getting rid of stuff you originally made for yourself then you should be fine. The question is what was your intent at the time you made them. That is my understanding.

Posted: 12/14/2005 7:15:49 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
tax is only needed if you make more than 25 a year, NRA had this info in there mags a month or two back, along with the bill no.

Actually it is 50...

I have my Type 07 FFL, and when I started building Rifles, the BATF told me that I had to add the tax on every rifle I build, and I have to fill out a form yearly, on how many rifles, or pistols that I have built that year.

There was no number of rifles I could build with out tax.

Where is this info comming from ?

Or did the BATF lie to me, and I am getting screwed.

What's a class 07 FFL? Is that the one for gun smithing? I thought the NEW law said gun smiths could build, or "customize" 50 without tax, that may meen just working on a stripped receiver that the customer brought in though, but what do I know?

Posted: 12/15/2005 6:24:43 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
tax is only needed if you make more than 25 a year, NRA had this info in there mags a month or two back, along with the bill no.

Actually it is 50...

I have my Type 07 FFL, and when I started building Rifles, the BATF told me that I had to add the tax on every rifle I build, and I have to fill out a form yearly, on how many rifles, or pistols that I have built that year.

There was no number of rifles I could build with out tax.

Where is this info comming from ?

Or did the BATF lie to me, and I am getting screwed.

Brand new law... call the main branch in Atlanta 1-866-662-2750, they'll fill you in. Basically, you don't have to even fill out excise tax paperwork until you build the 51st gun in a calendar year, HOWEVER, once you build the 51st you are no longer exempt and have to pay excise tax on all 51. It resets each calendar year.

Posted: 12/15/2005 6:29:45 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
tax is only needed if you make more than 25 a year, NRA had this info in there mags a month or two back, along with the bill no.

Actually it is 50...

I know you would just be "assembling" them, but wouldn't you need to be licensed as a manufacturer? Forgive my ignorance......but this always confuses me.....
Cheers,
Dave

Yes, at least that is what they told me.

In the BATFE's eyes (at least the way the main branch in Atlanta is seeing it and passing it on to me) asembling an AR15 for a third party for profit is manufacturing a firearm and requires a Class 07 FFL (which is not that hard to procure)... I have an appointment for my walk through and final approval for mine in the next few weeks.

- HGW

Posted: 12/15/2005 7:08:02 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
tax is only needed if you make more than 25 a year, NRA had this info in there mags a month or two back, along with the bill no.

Actually it is 50...

I have my Type 07 FFL, and when I started building Rifles, the BATF told me that I had to add the tax on every rifle I build, and I have to fill out a form yearly, on how many rifles, or pistols that I have built that year.

There was no number of rifles I could build with out tax.

Where is this info comming from ?

Or did the BATF lie to me, and I am getting screwed.

Brand new law... call the main branch in Atlanta 1-866-662-2750, they'll fill you in. Basically, you don't have to even fill out excise tax paperwork until you build the 51st gun in a calendar year, HOWEVER, once you build the 51st you are no longer exempt and have to pay excise tax on all 51. It resets each calendar year.

I guess I better give them a call, because I usualy only Custom build about 20 to 30 rifles a year, and that tax is cutting in to my profits!!!

Posted: 12/17/2005 8:24:29 AM EDT

[#14]

It is better to get it in writing on official BATF letterhead regardless of "giving a call" to "understand the rules". The best intentions are always up for interpretation based on a "phone call approval".

Ever sit in a deposition and relied on a understanding based on a phone call then tried to explain it? To many BATF satelite offices, BATF individuals, etc. interperret the law how they see it.

Get it in writing.

Posted: 12/17/2005 8:35:45 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
It is better to get it in writing on official BATF letterhead regardless of "giving a call" to "understand the rules". The best intentions are always up for interpretation based on a "phone call approval".

Ever sit in a deposition and relied on a understanding based on a phone call then tried to explain it? To many BATF satelite offices, BATF individuals, etc. interperret the law how they see it.

Get it in writing.

Most Definitely!!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Question re. BATF rules

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