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11/9/2018 9:21:38 PM
Posted: 3/9/2005 11:50:21 AM EST
I am piecing together a 16 inch midlength A4 upper with a collapsible stock lower, and was wondering if a match trigger is worth the extra money.

I'll be using the weapon for just about eveything you can use one for, plinking to defense.

Is it worth it???
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 11:51:26 AM EST
If it's not a match type or bench rest rifle I'd say NO it's not worth it. The std. AR trigger group is the most dependable.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 11:51:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/9/2005 11:51:55 AM EST by Forest]

Originally Posted By chris157c:
I am piecing together a 16 inch midlength A4 upper with a collapsible stock lower, and was wondering if a match trigger is worth the extra money.

I'll be using the weapon for just about eveything you can use one for, plinking to defense.

Is it worth it???



No.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 11:53:57 AM EST
Depends.

I like the trigger pull with my RRA NM triggers, but you could try to keep it simple and just use the standard trigger....they get better with use.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 12:07:47 PM EST
That's what I was looking at. The NM 2 stage from RRA. I noticed it's on their govy model...

Why would it not be good for defense? is it TOO easy to pull? LOL!

I'm a Marine, and have owned a couple AR's so I know what the standard trigger feels like... but not the NM...

Would it be worth it even if I had the extra money for it???
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 12:11:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By chris157c:
Would it be worth it even if I had the extra money for it???



Yes.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 12:13:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/9/2005 12:17:24 PM EST by WIZZO_ARAKM14]
They are known to be good triggers, but people have had problems with them wearing down and an becoming a single stage after a couple hundred rounds. I haven't experienced this with mine, but who knows.

There is also the the thing that some people short-stroke their trigger finger by not letting off the trigger enough for it to reset with two stage triggers.

YMMV, of course.

If you really want a match trigger, you could try to find a single stage match trigger, just make sure (by checking on here) if it is well built and durable first.

WIZZO

EDIT:Ain't that wierd: Me instructing a Marine




Come to think of it, I'll bet I'm almost half your age..................................... (wanders of muttering 18 year olds get no respect)
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 12:59:41 PM EST
Only two choices worthy of a self defense rifle, other than stock: Accuracy Speaks or KAC.

<­BR>


(and I though I wouldn't get to say that this week )
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 1:08:16 PM EST
IMHO, RRA 2-stage triggers don't belong in any kind of defensive carbine.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 1:08:45 PM EST
If you don't mind paying out the azz for a trigger go with KAC. You won't be dissappointed. Not once have I regretted upgrading my AR's to KAC triggers, to include my M4gery.
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 2:50:36 PM EST
Thanks for the info guys... i guess i saved a bunch of money by switching to ARFCOM...

...They might not save EVERYONE money, but when they do, it's an average of 15%... and if they'll do that for you now, imagine what kind of service they'll give you if you become a member...



by the way... i'm only 22, and don't believe every Marine is a weapons freak, I know more than most, and i'll admit i don't know squat...LOL!
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 2:51:46 PM EST
standard
Link Posted: 3/9/2005 4:55:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By chris157c:
Thanks for the info guys... i guess i saved a bunch of money by switching to ARFCOM...

...They might not save EVERYONE money, but when they do, it's an average of 15%... and if they'll do that for you now, imagine what kind of service they'll give you if you become a member...



by the way... i'm only 22, and don't believe every Marine is a weapons freak, I know more than most, and i'll admit i don't know squat...LOL!



Ok, your not that much older than me after all (4 years) , but at least you already know how to shoot....the correct way

I won't get the opportunity to join the Armed forces due to medical reasons, but I still get to play at our farm shooting some longer range stuff with my EBRs(685 yds to be exact)

Stay safe

WIZZO
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 7:45:50 PM EST
Single Stage = Accuracy Speaks (not true drop in)
Two Stage= KAC (true drop in)

I have a KAC 2 stage in my M4 and will not use another trigger. I could never go back to factory.
Link Posted: 3/10/2005 11:16:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By bsbg:
Only two choices worthy of a self defense rifle, other than stock: Accuracy Speaks or KAC.




Originally Posted By rockytherotty:
IMHO, RRA 2-stage triggers don't belong in any kind of defensive carbine.




What's wrong with the RRA NM trigger in a defensive carbine?
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 12:25:38 AM EST
Not reliable
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 2:26:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By DevL:
Not reliable



I guess my RRA trigger making my rifle go bang after thousands of rounds isn't reliable?
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 4:01:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2005 4:02:27 AM EST by CJan_NH]

Originally Posted By OD45:

Originally Posted By DevL:
Not reliable



I guess my RRA trigger making my rifle go bang after thousands of rounds isn't reliable?


There are many people here (myself included) who have had Rock River triggers turn into very light single stages after only a few hundred rounds. Mine currently breaks at less than two pounds.

Considering that issue, and also the light spring they use I'd never want to bet my life on my RRA trigger. With the exception of one carbine with an upgraded Colt trigger my defensive weapons are either stock or have KAC upgraded triggers.

Opinions vary of course-it sounds like you got a good one.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 4:28:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:

Originally Posted By OD45:

Originally Posted By DevL:
Not reliable



I guess my RRA trigger making my rifle go bang after thousands of rounds isn't reliable?


There are many people here (myself included) who have had Rock River triggers turn into very light single stages after only a few hundred rounds. Mine currently breaks at less than two pounds.

Considering that issue, and also the light spring they use I'd never want to bet my life on my RRA trigger. With the exception of one carbine with an upgraded Colt trigger my defensive weapons are either stock or have KAC upgraded triggers.

Opinions vary of course-it sounds like you got a good one.



I also run only KAC (precision weapons), standard, or the Colt enhanced for any serious weapons. I have two LMT lowers with their 2-stage trigger that I am going to be T&Eing for myself. If they prove reliable, then they will stay. If not, then I'll replace them with KAC.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 4:36:29 AM EST
While I have heard of many RRA 2 stages going single stage.... (including one I owned) it is a simple fix.

I have *never* heard of one going to non-functioning mode... tho I imagine that could happen. The failure on the RRA is simply losing the second stage.... so it's just like a standard AR or AK trigger, only lighter. It doesnt fail to go bang.... so I still cannot see the argument against it for defensive use. It would be different if they failed outright. I have 4 RRA triggers in 4 different rifles, and only one has had a problem. One of mine had gone around 5,000 rounds... zero issues and still breaks where it did when I bought it. I wont hesitate to use what works for me.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 5:58:28 AM EST
I run Jewell triggers in all of mine and have put thousands of rounds through them. The amount of adjustments you can make on them is great. And if it comes out of adjustment(I have never experienced this) you can just resetup your trigger. If you want to change the way your trigger feels you can do it all. Not so with RRA.

Link Posted: 3/11/2005 6:25:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
While I have heard of many RRA 2 stages going single stage.... (including one I owned) it is a simple fix.

I have *never* heard of one going to non-functioning mode... tho I imagine that could happen. The failure on the RRA is simply losing the second stage.... so it's just like a standard AR or AK trigger, only lighter. It doesnt fail to go bang.... so I still cannot see the argument against it for defensive use. It would be different if they failed outright. I have 4 RRA triggers in 4 different rifles, and only one has had a problem. One of mine had gone around 5,000 rounds... zero issues and still breaks where it did when I bought it. I wont hesitate to use what works for me.


After losing the first stage I used mine a lot to see if I could make it fail completely. While it hasn't failed outright, igniting hard primers in milspec ammo (like LC M193 for example) is now less than 100%.

My RRA trigger no longer has the power necessary to reliably ignite hard primers, and that's a deal breaker for me in a defensive carbine. For this reason mine will only be used at the range. With all of the reports here of RRA triggers suddenly going TU, are you willing to take a chance when it matters?

Like you, mine behaved perfectly until the day I lost the first stage. When that range session started the trigger was fine, but within a couple of mags I felt a drastic difference. In other words, I had about 60 rounds worth of warning that something wasn't right. At first I thought it was my imagination, but after the first mag I shotgunned the upper and dryfired a few times, letting the hammer drop onto my thumb to avoid damage to the bolt catch. Sure enough, the trigger was going TU. I did a function test and the hammer was still caught by the disco when the trigger was reset after the hammer was cocked manually, so I continued on. By the end the first stage was gone and the second broke at less than two pounds.



Link Posted: 3/11/2005 6:30:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By pcurtis:
I also run only KAC (precision weapons), standard, or the Colt enhanced for any serious weapons. I have two LMT lowers with their 2-stage trigger that I am going to be T&Eing for myself. If they prove reliable, then they will stay. If not, then I'll replace them with KAC.


If KAC made a version that fit into a large pin Colt I'd probably run KAC in everything. They are expensive but worth the price of admission. I like my Colt enhanced triggers a lot, but I'm finding myself becoming spoiled by the KAC.

Last year Wes from MSTN mentioned that he had been working on a 170 KAC trigger. I think I'll e-mail him to see if any progress is being made
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 6:33:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2005 6:54:33 AM EST by rockytherotty]

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
While I have heard of many RRA 2 stages going single stage.... (including one I owned) it is a simple fix.

I have *never* heard of one going to non-functioning mode... tho I imagine that could happen. The failure on the RRA is simply losing the second stage.... so it's just like a standard AR or AK trigger, only lighter. It doesnt fail to go bang.... so I still cannot see the argument against it for defensive use. It would be different if they failed outright. I have 4 RRA triggers in 4 different rifles, and only one has had a problem. One of mine had gone around 5,000 rounds... zero issues and still breaks where it did when I bought it. I wont hesitate to use what works for me.


1 problem with a trigger group out of 4 is still too much for me. My first RRA trigger performed well so I bought a second. I quickly lost the first stage and it turned into a dangerous single stage trigger with like a 1lb pull if that, it was insane. I sent that back to RRA and got a replacement, that one had a hard second stage it broke at about 5 lbs. There is no consitency with these RRA triggers and I won't own another one.

I just put a LMT 2-stage in my SMA-R clone and so far so good with it. My only complaint is the 1st stage feels gritty. The second stage has a nice clean crisp break though. I thought it would be a better trigger especially for the money but I'm not really impressed with it like I thought I would be. As far as I'm concerned the first stage should atleast be smooth @ $140
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:33:19 AM EST
Another option you might consider is having a Williams Trigger Specialties [www.williamstriggers.com] install a set trigger. This allows you to have a standard trigger pull or or a set trigger pull. You 'set' by rotating the safety selector counterclockwise past the fire position. This will give you a trigger pull of about 2 lbs with little creep or overtravel. I have found this modification to be completely reliable and it has greatly improved mechanical accuracy for me. Please note, I don't think set triggers are legal for service rifle competition.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:19:44 AM EST
I did a search for the KAC trigger in the EE to look at prices, but couldn't find one...

Anybody got a website with these so I can take a better look, and possibly purchase?
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:26:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2005 8:26:45 AM EST by NH_Joe]
www.operationparts.com lists the KAC trigger, but they ran out when I bought their last one ealier this week.

Joe
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:43:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2005 8:50:36 AM EST by Rmplstlskn]
I put a McCormick single-stage curved trigger in my M4gery and love it. For fast competition shooting (3-gun, etc... not long range precision), the McC S-S would be hard to beat...

As for 'defensive" purposes needing a heavier trigger (stock), I don't completely agree. I don't see myself EVER, as a civilian on US soil, Zombies or not, running through the forests with my AR, loaded down with full tactical vest, web gear and the like, fighting a guerilla war... Nor do I see myself doing anything like what our troops in A-stan and Iraq are doing right now. It just ain't likely. If it were, a heavy and gritty stock trigger would be a huge ASSET against mis-fires/impacts and I would put mine back in...

More realistically, I see an M4gery being used for house clearing duty or property patrol. Both of which would be in SAFE position until ready to fire. Once that decision TO USE LETHAL FORCE has been made and I put my finger into the guard area, I prefer the glass-like S-S my McC offers me...

Although a more remote possibility but imaginable would be a M4gery or A2 on a good single or 3-pt sling ready for quick access and me in DISCRETE MODE with a "go-bag" of mags (or tactical vest under coat) and other "gear based on need and threat" leaving an area affected by a radiological, biological or chemical terrorist attack... (I live 120 miles from DC so not too impossible) The last thing I would want is to draw attention to myself from nervous, edgy law enforcement or NG soldiers by looking like RAMBO as I leave to somewhere safer. For this sceanrio as well, I would want my McC S-S trigger...

YMMV, but that is how I see my TOOLS being used. The precision trigger is desirable for my intended JOBS...

Most likely, my M4gery and A2 will only see duty at the range... McC again.

Rmpl

Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:29:08 AM EST
Its nice to see the AR community realise that whether a trigger has a set screw in it or not has nothing to do with its reliability. I am a bit disappointed in people making reccomendations for triggers based on their sample size of one. Just because YOUR trigger does not malfunction does not mean its a reliable trigger when all RRA triggers are included. I am sure there are unreliable AKS but that does not mean that all all are unreliable because one is not does it?

Simple fact. RRA is less reliable and has a worse feel than a KAC. Just because the KAC has set screws does not make it less reliable by default.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 2:02:34 PM EST
what would be best for IPSC from 25m to 300m?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 4:02:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By anothernewbie:
what would be best for IPSC from 25m to 300m?



A nice single stage - Accuracy Speaks, JP or McCormick would do fine for competition.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 5:08:44 PM EST
For plinking around shooting cans and shit go Stock. If you want to go LONGGG distance and touch holes together easier on paper, go Two stage or Jeweled. The end.
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