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Posted: 5/29/2014 7:02:52 PM EST
I am ready to pick up an AR, use will be semi frequent and will involve some good tactical type training with at least 3 formal high round count classes per year.
I've been looking at and researching Daniel Defense AR's. Seem like they are an awesome factory built rifle and there are a few I like. From what I can see $1500 seems to be an average price. I find myself questioning if I should maybe go in the direction of a Stag + package instead. Good builder, Life time warranty etc, etc......

The way I see it is for about the cost of the DD (maybe a little more) I could have the stag with a good after market trigger and an Aim Point Pro..... or similar.

Opinions please... feel free to open it up to other manufacturers too.
Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/29/2014 7:14:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/29/2014 7:20:54 PM EST by RJeff21]
I have no experience with Stag so I can't comment to that but if you're not looking to spend $1500 and you want a rifle that will run reliably I'd suggest lookin at PSA.

I've got a few complete PSA uppers with another on the way and a buddy with one of their complete rifles all with at least a few thousand rounds through them.

They just simply run. Quality parts and a great price.

ETA: Stay away from the PTAC stuff. Some people have had decent luck with them but others haven't been so lucky.
Link Posted: 5/29/2014 7:32:31 PM EST
if you're spending enough for a stag you can afford a colt 6920. i would do a colt unless you want the extras the DD comes with like the rail. BCM is also a good option.
Link Posted: 5/29/2014 7:47:45 PM EST
I'd go BCM
Link Posted: 5/29/2014 8:11:50 PM EST
Definitively get the STAG plus all the other stuff you need. Lifetime warranty, if you ever shoot the barrel out, they replace it for free, and one of the best customer service departments in our industry. That would make a perfect combo for you. You'll be getting more so get the DD later, Only buy a Colt to put in the back of the closet. During panics, people pay exorbitant prices for them.
Link Posted: 5/29/2014 10:59:37 PM EST
I personally wouldn't recommend a DD for what you seem to want at this time. The Colt, Stag, and PSA should be fine. I'd also get a plain jane model until you've ran it a bit to see what accessories you like. Even better would be to borrow one and take it to your first and second course and see what you like/want and what you don't.

It appears you have a living location handicap (Cali) so this might be a good starter.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/rifles/palmetto-state-armory/psa-pa-15-moe-qms-carbine-package-ca-model.html

A Walmart Colt would likely be a good starter as well.



Link Posted: 5/30/2014 12:15:24 AM EST
I bought my DD V5 about a year ago and put the few extras I wanted on it. After having it a year now I wish I would have done this the first time around as I never shoot my others anymore. All the money spent buying the cheaper gun and playing with all the add ons I spent enough I could have had what I have now. DD is very nice just go handle a few different brands you'll see the difference they are worth the few hundred extra.
Link Posted: 5/30/2014 1:07:25 AM EST
Why not go Colt for $900-$1,000?: http://www.cdnnsports.com/firearms.html?brand=364
Tomac
Link Posted: 5/30/2014 1:09:27 AM EST
Here's 2 good deals.

https://www.primaryarms.com/Spikes-Tactical-16-ST-15-M4-LE-Carbine-5-56x45-p/str-5025-m4s.htm

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/rifles/palmetto-state-armory/psa-16-pa-15-hf-ss12g2-carbine.html

For the price I like BCM and Daniel Defense. Primary Arms often runs sales for $400 off Daniel Defense rifles.
Link Posted: 5/30/2014 2:37:16 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RJeff21:
I have no experience with Stag so I can't comment to that but if you're not looking to spend $1500 and you want a rifle that will run reliably I'd suggest lookin at PSA.

I've got a few complete PSA uppers with another on the way and a buddy with one of their complete rifles all with at least a few thousand rounds through them.

They just simply run. Quality parts and a great price.

ETA: Stay away from the PTAC stuff. Some people have had decent luck with them but others haven't been so lucky.
View Quote

Link Posted: 5/30/2014 4:50:44 AM EST
Saying you want to get an AR is like saying you want to get a car. It leaves a whole lot of room for refining the question. I'm just guessing (because I wouldn't want to assume!) that you mean a 16" carbine, flat top, with a collapsible stock, in 5.56mm. Do you want one that's as close to an M4 as possible? If so, I'd say "Get the Colt 6920"----like a lot of other people will say.

But Colt doesn't offer much in the way of variation. Me, I've turned into a huge fan of the mid-length gas system. I think KAC was the first to commercially introduce a mid-length. Daniel Defense offers both carbine, and mid-length gas systems. I've got a Bravo Company middy that I really like. I probably won't get a carbine gas system unless I pick up another 300 Blackout (which is a whole different discussion).

There is (obviously!) nothing wrong with the carbine gas system, but I think the middy is the way to go with a 16" (or 14.5" pinned to 16") rifle. Other folks prefer to stick with the carbine gas---like Augee, who knows a lot more about ARs than I do.
Link Posted: 5/30/2014 6:19:03 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Toddler:
Here's 2 good deals.

https://www.primaryarms.com/Spikes-Tactical-16-ST-15-M4-LE-Carbine-5-56x45-p/str-5025-m4s.htm

For the price I like BCM and Daniel Defense. Primary Arms often runs sales for $400 off Daniel Defense rifles.
View Quote


Best bang for the buck imo.
Link Posted: 5/30/2014 6:31:06 AM EST
I'd go DD or BCM.

I've owned PSA, LMT, DPMS, BCM, Seekins Precision, and DD.

DD is my go to rifle and I'd buy another if I had the money right now.
Link Posted: 5/30/2014 6:59:44 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NationalUXO:

A Walmart Colt would likely be a good starter as well.

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Our walmarts(California) dont sell ARs I don't even think they sell firearms?!

Never seen one
Link Posted: 5/30/2014 7:07:56 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cart000:


Our walmarts(California) dont sell ARs I don't even think they sell firearms?!

Never seen one
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cart000:
Originally Posted By NationalUXO:

A Walmart Colt would likely be a good starter as well.



Our walmarts(California) dont sell ARs I don't even think they sell firearms?!

Never seen one


Link Posted: 5/30/2014 7:24:43 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cart000:


Our walmarts(California) dont sell ARs I don't even think they sell firearms?!

Never seen one
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cart000:
Originally Posted By NationalUXO:

A Walmart Colt would likely be a good starter as well.



Our walmarts(California) dont sell ARs I don't even think they sell firearms?!

Never seen one


Same here.
I think the closest thing I can find at walmart is airsoft or nerf guns.
Link Posted: 5/30/2014 8:07:06 AM EST
I like the PSA,
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/rifles/palmetto-state-armory/psa-16-pa-15-hf-ss12g2-carbine.html

It is pretty much the direction I am looking to go, add a good drop in trigger and call it done.
Link Posted: 5/30/2014 8:12:30 AM EST
Colt 6920 OD can be found for $850 right now.
Link Posted: 6/1/2014 7:55:47 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cam784:
I like the PSA,
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/rifles/palmetto-state-armory/psa-16-pa-15-hf-ss12g2-carbine.html

It is pretty much the direction I am looking to go, add a good drop in trigger and call it done.
View Quote



Good choice, OP. I don't have much experience with the MI rail but everything else there is G2G. I think you will not be disappointed.

Get yourself a Geissele SSA and call it a day.
Link Posted: 6/1/2014 8:25:04 PM EST
Another vote for a 6920
Link Posted: 6/1/2014 11:43:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/1/2014 11:49:03 PM EST by rb889]
If you can get a Colt LE6920 for under $900, do so.(I saw one recently with Magpul furniture for around $870 with under $10 shipping, think it was grabagun. LE6920MP in OD green)

BCM and DD would be my next choices, seeing as they'd cost more.(BCM upper+BCG+CH+lower+parts = $1000, give or take. Very high quality, though, and you'll have your preferred stock/grip right off the bat) BCM is running a sale right now, methinks.

DD includes the rail, good kit, but expensive.

PSA is one of the best places to start, but it will cost you more money in the long run, 'cuz you'll keep going back again and again for more. Not to mention, shipping takes forever and a day, and there isn't much in stock at the moment.(I like their 14.7 CHF M4A1 rifle kit, but it's not in stock. Think they have the unpinned basic upper, though)

Best of luck, mate.

EDIT: Did a search, listed the gun and price. You're welcome.
Link Posted: 6/2/2014 4:53:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2014 5:04:55 AM EST by Zenfoldor]
One big bang for the buck item that I suggest is the Boonie Packer slings.

PS: 6920 is an amazing deal. I paid nearly 1500 bucks for mine back in the day. I really love mine. Have aforementioned sling, an Aimpoint Pro, MBUS rear flip sight, an Elzetta mount and a Streamlight polytac on mine(need to replace light). Very high quality product. Top tier HD configuration and had a decent trigger out of the box.

PS: If the gun will be used in HD at all, might wanna stick with something closer to the stock trigger or a heavy 2 stage Geissele. If the gun is for fun, you can play around with light and smooth triggers, but in an adrenaline dump, you wanna make sure you have dependability and positive feedback, lol. Point being, don't wanna use the light JP springs or a really light pull when SHTF. Trigger should make sure the gun A. Fires, and B. Only fires when you want it to. ALG QMS triggers are great triggers with this purpose in mind, and very good "bang for the buck" as well.
Link Posted: 6/2/2014 6:55:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2014 6:56:13 AM EST by washingtonap]
Get the new FN 15 carbine. Around a thousand dollars. I have shot one and its a nice quality ar 15. They currently make the m4s for the military
Link Posted: 6/2/2014 5:34:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Zenfoldor:
One big bang for the buck item that I suggest is the Boonie Packer slings.

PS: 6920 is an amazing deal. I paid nearly 1500 bucks for mine back in the day. I really love mine. Have aforementioned sling, an Aimpoint Pro, MBUS rear flip sight, an Elzetta mount and a Streamlight polytac on mine(need to replace light). Very high quality product. Top tier HD configuration and had a decent trigger out of the box.

PS: If the gun will be used in HD at all, might wanna stick with something closer to the stock trigger or a heavy 2 stage Geissele. If the gun is for fun, you can play around with light and smooth triggers, but in an adrenaline dump, you wanna make sure you have dependability and positive feedback, lol. Point being, don't wanna use the light JP springs or a really light pull when SHTF. Trigger should make sure the gun A. Fires, and B. Only fires when you want it to. ALG QMS triggers are great triggers with this purpose in mind, and very good "bang for the buck" as well.
View Quote


Excellent, thank you!
Link Posted: 6/3/2014 8:54:08 AM EST
Stag is a great rifle, at the $900 price point. (Unless you're a Southpaw)


If you look hard enough you can find a Colt 6920 for that much or less.
Link Posted: 6/3/2014 11:53:39 AM EST
Daniel Defense no doubt makes an outstanding rifle. The fit and finish on them is second to none and they are literally the prettiest AR I have laid eyes on that is factory made. That said I find $1500 steep for a rifle.
So if not Dan Def what? I would suggest looking at BCM, Spikes, and PSA. Palmetto buys seconds from FN who is down the street from them. This means they are parts made for M16A4/M4A1's and are military grade. Not as pretty as Dan Def, but just as functional. This is also the cheapest you will get a rifle. You can order lowers for as low as $150 and complete uppers for low as $300. You won't get the fancy rail like dandef, but you can always add it later if you like. Be warned though they are slow shippers. Spikes is second cheapest coming in around $850 at the lowest I have ever seen one priced. Again no rail, but they also make their rifles with premo materials. Then there is BCM. I only have personal experience with BCM rifles. Hear good things about PSA and Spikes, but never shot either. My BCM mid 16 chews up and spits out anything I feed it, and gets some pretty nice groups with irons when using 62-69 grain ammo. 55 grain literally doubles the group size. So if it is a 4" group with 62 it will be an 8" group with 55. I don't know much about Stag and their plus package, but I can tell you I went BCM and I am glad I did. My next AR will likely be something pieced together out of parts from PSA just because of how cheap it is and i hear good things, but I would certainly never hesitate to buy another BCM due to the high grade materials and my positive experience with the rifle itself.(It has gotten full of sand, mud, and water, and still ran like a sewing machine) I trust that thing to go bang every time more than my Glock and I have a lot of faith in that thing. Good luck finding the rifle that fits you best.

I am off to best a Hobbit a Dwarf and an Elf in a drinking contest and after that some general merriment making.
Link Posted: 6/3/2014 12:58:59 PM EST
I'd go DD first then 6920 second.
Link Posted: 6/3/2014 3:32:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2014 3:33:02 PM EST by VA-BlkRifle]
I'm sorry, my Walmart gets Colts, Bushmasters, I've seen Mossberg AR's and a S&W once
Link Posted: 6/3/2014 4:21:21 PM EST
IMO every AR mentioned in this post is on par with each other. Not a piss hole in the snow worth of difference between them. I would include Windam Weaponry in the same class as the rest. I would go with the best deal right now and buy magazines and Ammo. Worry about the gucci gear later.
Link Posted: 6/4/2014 11:22:16 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gandalf_The_Gray:
<snip>Palmetto buys seconds from FN who is down the street from them. This means they are parts made for M16A4/M4A1's and are military grade. <snip>
View Quote

This is completely false. FN does not sell "seconds" to PSA whatsoever. All FN parts made for PSA are first run. They do sometimes get over-runs but NEVER anything that failed QC or rejects.

And seeing that .mil doesnt use CHF bbls for just one example amongst many more, that would also disprove the second part. TDP alone would prevent that let alone the liability.
Link Posted: 6/4/2014 12:40:26 PM EST
best bang for the buck is always going to be to build one. That said, under 1k I think BCM is best
Link Posted: 6/15/2014 9:57:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2014 10:01:04 PM EST by boltcatch]
Originally Posted By cam784:
I am ready to pick up an AR, use will be semi frequent and will involve some good tactical type training with at least 3 formal high round count classes per year.
I've been looking at and researching Daniel Defense AR's. Seem like they are an awesome factory built rifle and there are a few I like. From what I can see $1500 seems to be an average price. I find myself questioning if I should maybe go in the direction of a Stag + package instead. Good builder, Life time warranty etc, etc......

The way I see it is for about the cost of the DD (maybe a little more) I could have the stag with a good after market trigger and an Aim Point Pro..... or similar.

Opinions please... feel free to open it up to other manufacturers too.
Thanks.
View Quote


I would consider things like a good optic and/or a light before an aftermarket trigger; they're going to be more important, particularly if you're looking at a lot of rifle classes.

If you like what you see on a DD rifle, then you'd probably be quite happy with one. I have nothing bad to say about them. I'm also partial to BCM rifles.

If you want more of a basic carbine, then I have to point out that I'm seeing a lot of Colt 6920's hanging on gun shop walls for ~ $890. No offense to Stag, but at that price I don't see what the point of getting a Stag complete rifle is. In fact, at that price I don't think you're going to find a better deal on a 16" basic carbine anywhere. I personally don't like 16" AR's with carbine gas systems, but the 6920's just work.
Link Posted: 6/15/2014 10:07:02 PM EST
Anybody had experience with a CORE 15 M4??
Link Posted: 6/16/2014 9:40:13 PM EST
I really like Rock River Arms... Their fit and finish has always been top notch, and I truly love their 2 stage triggers; I have them in most of my guns. You can typically find RRAs from $700-1000

For an even more economic build, I highly suggest PSA lowers and uppers... for under $500 you can have a decent piece of gear that will likely give you thousands of trouble free rounds.

Link Posted: 6/17/2014 1:29:15 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 2minkey:
if you're spending enough for a stag you can afford a colt 6920. i would do a colt unless you want the extras the DD comes with like the rail. BCM is also a good option.
View Quote



Damn, First time I've agreed with you.

I'd buy the bare bones 6920. Then change out what you want. My closest one to factory, just has a Colt retro 6 hole single heat shield hand guard on it. Also a ACOG. Well they do get Geissele triggers too.
Also have one with a free float Apex rail on it, with a BUIS and another ACOG
Not really fond of the 6940. Nice rifle, but I don't care for the Quad rail.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 1:33:38 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BEAST33:
I'd go DD or BCM.

I've owned PSA, LMT, DPMS, BCM, Seekins Precision, and DD.

DD is my go to rifle and I'd buy another if I had the money right now.
View Quote



Funny, my go to, is a light weight .308.with a TA11, and a Geissele SD3G.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 6:24:33 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4Tank:


Best bang for the buck imo.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4Tank:
Originally Posted By Toddler:
Here's 2 good deals.

https://www.primaryarms.com/Spikes-Tactical-16-ST-15-M4-LE-Carbine-5-56x45-p/str-5025-m4s.htm

For the price I like BCM and Daniel Defense. Primary Arms often runs sales for $400 off Daniel Defense rifles.


Best bang for the buck imo.



Agreed just finished a mid length. You will be hard pressed to find many people with something bad to say about spikes. Not to mention the customer services is awesome. https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QAX_eVsnmbM/U5747kWulBI/AAAAAAAABeM/Ur60vHynPKA/w1598-h899-no/2014-06-16
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 3:17:55 PM EST
6920
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 3:53:42 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gsd2053:
6920
View Quote

Best value (i.e. price, features, accuracy, quality)?

Colt 6940

Do some research on here and price it at a couple of the site sponsors.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 4:10:01 PM EST
DD or BCM.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 6:16:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2014 6:17:19 PM EST by emb876]
Go PSA.

$350

$190

$370 with Summer Rebate

$320

$1230. Enjoy. You're welcome btw.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:18:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By emb876:
Go PSA.

$350

$190

$370 with Summer Rebate

$320

$1230. Enjoy. You're welcome btw.
View Quote



Sorry guy. The man said QUALITY!
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:01:18 PM EST

BCM 16in mid-lenght lightweight
you can thank me later






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