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Posted: 11/10/2002 1:47:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Troy,
How different is civilian RA9SXT from RA9T? I've been carrying 147 gr. RA9SXT since I can't find a source for RA9T. |
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Posted: 11/11/2002 8:27:53 AM EDT
[#2]
The Black Hills 124 +P with the Gold Dot bullet meets the specs, costs less and is not listed. It performs as well as the Speer load and has less muzzle flash. The Gold Dot is the only bonded jacket hollow point readily available to civilians.
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Posted: 11/11/2002 9:03:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Innocent Bystander,
The Civilian SXT is an older style bullet that suffered from a lack of reliable expansion and ease of being clogged with clothing material. The new Talon loads have been redesigned to not suffer these problems, and as such, are MUCH more reliable defense loads. In addition, they offer better performance against glass, they are unlikely to experience core-jacket separation (unlike the SXT), and offer broader expansion. |
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Posted: 11/11/2002 9:26:39 AM EDT
[#4]
Whatever happened to the +p 115gr Corbon JHP that used to be such the rage? It has a good rep for stopping, and I carry it, yet you never hear about it anymore. Why is that?
Then again, being a Civilian CCW holder,I doubt that I'll be requred to shoot through many windshields or hard targets... |
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Posted: 11/11/2002 9:41:49 AM EDT
[#5]
I carry the Speer GD 124+p and it is hot stuff, 1300fps out of a G19.
The Corbon is available, but does not meet the penetration criteria. It generaly penetrates about 8". |
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Posted: 11/11/2002 11:16:43 AM EDT
[#6]
Neither of these was the focus of the testing criteria. Tests were primarily based on performance on bare gelletin and on denim-covered gelletin. As stated, the Corbon 115gr +P load gives insufficient penetration. DevL, The BH load is more or less equivalent to the factory load, so, yes, you're right. -Troy |
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Posted: 11/11/2002 11:26:14 AM EDT
[#7]
I don't suppose us lowly peasants can purchase RA9T? Any sources out there?
-Gloftoe |
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Posted: 11/11/2002 12:21:51 PM EDT
[#8]
I keep 124gr +p Gold Dot HP's in my P228 9mm. Great stuff. :)
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Posted: 11/11/2002 12:32:35 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 11/11/2002 12:59:04 PM EDT
[#10]
They sell to civilians? I know that some places don't sell "Law Enforcement" ammo to us regular people. Thanks for the link, BTW!
-Gloftoe |
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Posted: 11/11/2002 4:12:21 PM EDT
[#11]
Troy,
I saw the Federal 135 grain and the Federal 124 +p but I don't see the Federal +p+ 124 grain (Hydra-Shoks). Any information on it? Thanks. |
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Posted: 11/11/2002 5:35:15 PM EDT
[#12]
The Hydra-Shoks don't expand reliably in the denim test, as the bullet cavity gets clogged, and it acts more like a FMJ bullet. While it would probably be acceptable in warmer climates where folks don't dress heavily, it would be bad in winter or in places where folks dress in heavy clothes.
-Troy |
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Posted: 11/11/2002 6:22:14 PM EDT
[#13]
brouhaha, I've been loading the Ranger RA9SXT. Is this the same preferred round they're referring to? Mine are sold in boxes of 50 with the same identical LEO packaging as shown in the photo, brass case, black lubalox coating. Am I alright, or is this still the 'inept' civilian version?
TIA! |
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Posted: 11/11/2002 6:44:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Is the Speer GD 124gr +P an LEO only round?
Reason I ask is that I buy the stuff at my local gunshop out of the discount bin for $16 a box of 50. |
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Posted: 11/11/2002 7:23:19 PM EDT
[#15]
No, it's still the old version, similar to the Black Talon. The new stuff does NOT have the coating on it. Look at the end tabs of the box. You'll see a product code there. The new stuff has a code of RA9TA and RA9T. What you have is still pretty good ammo (I have several boxes myself), but there's just newer better ammo out there. |
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Posted: 11/11/2002 7:37:10 PM EDT
[#16]
So will they sell to civilians or not? Anyone know?
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Posted: 11/12/2002 3:45:25 AM EDT
[#17]
I found the following after searching the net regarding the Speer 9mm +P round mentioned above.
. . Speer 9mm 124-grain +P Gold Dot Ammunition Distributor Speer markets its 9mm 124-grain +P Gold Dot cartridge to law enforcement. It currently is not offered to private citizens through the commercial market. (This might change in the future.) However we've located an ammunition distributor who's recently been authorized by Speer to sell the +P cartridge, by the box, to private citizens. Be advised that we recommend the +P cartridge for use only in compact handguns with barrel lengths less than 4-inches. The 124-grain Gold Dot bullet seems to provide optimal penetration and expansion performance when propelled at approximately 1150 fps. The +P load is designed to propel its bullet at 1220 fps, and this could lead to over-expansion and under-penetration when fired out of a handgun with a barrel length that is 4-inches or longer. When fired from a handgun that has a barrel length less than 4-inches, the +P bullet is unable to reach its full velocity potential of 1220 fps before it exits the muzzle. When we tested this load last August using a handgun with a 3.4-inch barrel, the bullet's average velocity was 1155 fps, the ideal velocity for optimum performance as designed by Speer. If you have a 9mm handgun, and you're not comfortable loading it with 147-grain bullets for personal defense, the Speer 124-grain Gold Dot is an acceptable alternative choice. If the barrel length of your handgun is 4-inches or longer, we suggest you use the standard velocity (1150 fps) load. If your handgun has a barrel length less than 4-inches, we suggest you use the +P (1220 fps) load. Speer 9mm 124-grain +P Gold Dot ammunition (Speer product number 53617, 50 rounds) . I found this information here--->www.firearmstactical.com/briefs13.htm I have no idea is any of this is correct but if it is, it would appear those of use with Glock 17's and 19's would be better served using something else.....UGH!!! Don't ya just love the net? Regards, Gary |
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Posted: 11/12/2002 7:10:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Go check www.ammolab.com and you will see that the +P 124grn Gold Dot loading penetrates fine in the longer barrels.
If any onf you cant find the Speer Gold Dot ammo then consider the Black Hills loadings as they use the same Gold Dot bullets propelled at the same velocities while costing considerably less. Anyone find out if civilians can buy the Winchester Ranger ammo from that website yet? |
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Posted: 11/12/2002 9:16:03 AM EDT
[#19]
Be advised OMB Police Supply won't sell to California! I found this out about a year ago while trying to place an order with them. The owner has a sister store in NorCal who they have a "no compete" agreement with, so if you want Ranger ammo you guys in CA can order from them. Unfortunately, I deleted the email with that store info, so you'll have to contact OMB to get the name of the store.
My preferred 9mm defense load is Win Ranger 127gr +P+ JHP in a Glock 19. It's too expensive to practice with so I found that Win 9mm NATO 124gr approximates the bullet weight, MV and POI of the Ranger ammo. I order my Win 9mm NATO ammo from Miwall Corp, but OMP Police Supply also carries it for you guys outside CA. Another source of Winchester Ranger ammo is The Hunting Shack in Montana. |
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Posted: 11/12/2002 9:59:32 AM EDT
[#20]
Are the RA9T, and the RA9SXT the same stuff?
-Gloftoe |
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Posted: 11/12/2002 10:48:09 AM EDT
[#21]
No, the RA9SXT is the older bullet design. Good, but not as good as the RA9T. -Troy |
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Posted: 11/13/2002 7:40:47 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 11/14/2002 3:41:36 PM EDT
[#23]
OMB is not a source! They do not sell Ranger-T to the public. I contacted them and that was what they said. Let's try to do the leg work before stating someone is a source. |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 1:50:17 PM EDT
[#24]
bumping for a RA9T source.
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Posted: 5/8/2003 4:33:09 PM EDT
[#25]
Ammoman still has some of the Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP for sale it is listed as part number 953617B, however, I'm pretty sure it is the same thing listed here. Get great ammo at an awsome price.
MM |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 4:35:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Mail sent
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Posted: 5/9/2003 2:28:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Just my $.02, but I remember some time back Evan Marshall & Ed Sanow had real street results of each load's effectiveness posted on their "stopping power" web site. I just checked the site and now you have to buy the book to get the results.
Anyway, the 115gr +P+ used to be one of the most effective loads you could use. I'm not sure how many people have been attacked by 18 inches of ballistic gelatin, but their results were/are based on actual bad guys who have been shot. Like I said, just my $.02. |
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Posted: 5/9/2003 4:17:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Marshall & Sanow's street results were based on some seriously flawed statistics and methods. They've been pretty well discredited by real scientific researchers like Fackler & Gary Roberts. [url]www.firearmstactical.com[/url] has a couple reviews of the M&S books that go over the faults in their methods.
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Posted: 5/10/2003 12:42:16 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Just my $.02, but I remember some time back Evan Marshall & Ed Sanow had real street results of each load's effectiveness posted on their "stopping power" web site. I just checked the site and now you have to buy the book to get the results. Anyway, the 115gr +P+ used to be one of the most effective loads you could use. I'm not sure how many people have been attacked by 18 inches of ballistic gelatin, but their results were/are based on actual bad guys who have been shot. Like I said, just my $.02. Me and Jimbob dun figured that 115 grain prefragmentle bullets kilt more % of opossums dead than a 45. Corsin we counted em all if they didnt hits an arms or legs. I think Jimbob shots all them opossums in the head with his Hipower though. I shots the opossums in the body with the .45 but if in its a good enuf way for Marshall and Sanow to ditermin stoppin' power its good enough for me to. [noclue] Edited to add: Oh yeah the stoppin power of 168 grain .308 Gold Medal Match is 99% 1 shot stops. Corsin that cant be cause they shots em in the head could it? Hmmm... wonder if Jimbob shoulda shot more opossums in the belly to see ifin they rolled over as fast. I bet I coulda untreed more opossums ifin I shots em in the head with the .45 but at least we is scientifical like The Marshall & Depty Sanow. |
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Posted: 5/10/2003 6:36:03 PM EDT
[#30]
[ROFL2]
-Troy |
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Posted: 5/10/2003 7:26:19 PM EDT
[#31]
Here is some info on the Winchester Ammo
RANGER® 9mm "T" SERIES · (RA9T) - 5 SHOT AVERAGE Bare Gelatin 4 Layer Denim Heavy Cloth Wallboard Plywood Steel Autoglass Penetration (inches) 13.8 15.7 15.6 14.2 14.8 19.6 14.3 Retained Weight 98.0% 100% 98.0% 100% 100% 100% 81.0% Instrumented Velocity (fps) 1016 898 1024 1026 1021 1022 1019 Expansion (inches) 0.66 0.66 0.65 0.63 0.63 0.44 0.49 RANGER® 40 "T" SERIES · (RA40T) - 5 SHOT AVERAGE Bare Gelatin 4 Layer Denim Heavy Cloth Wallboard Plywood Steel Autoglass Penetration (inches) 13.6 14.6 13.5 13.8 16.8 17.8 12.2 Retained Weight 97.0% 100% 99.0% 99.0% 99.0% 100% 71% Instrumented Velocity (fps) 943 931 951 952 948 943 947 Expansion (inches) 0.68 0.70 0.68 0.67 0.62 0.49 0.56 RANGER® 45 "T" SERIES · (RA45T) - 5 SHOT AVERAGE Bare Gelatin 4 Layer Denim Heavy Cloth Wallboard Plywood Steel Autoglass Penetration (inches) 12.6 14.0 15.6 12.9 13.9 18.6 13.0 Retained Weight 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 99% 77% Instrumented Velocity (fps) 820 855 843 849 854 828 838 Expansion (inches) 0.77 0.76 0.76 0.75 0.75 0.54 0.76 Just try to align the columns I don't scan stuff. |
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