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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/10/2004 10:40:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 10:43:26 AM EST by jblachly]
So I am going to order about 500-1000 rounds of ammo, and Winchester Q3131A and Lake City XM193 are the same price.

Both are 55 gr FMJ, new production.

Does it matter which I get?

edited to add: does one have less flash than the other? smaller groupings? etc.?
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 10:43:42 AM EST
I shoot them both exclusively. Which ever is cheaper and available, I buy.

You can't go wrong with either. I can get 500 rounds at the gunshow for $85. The XM193 is usually more plentiful around these gun shows.

HS1
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 11:10:58 AM EST
The Q3131A has a flash retardant in the powder that the XM193 does not, so if you want less flash, go with Q3131A.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 11:11:41 AM EST
I find the Q3131A to have less muzzle flash than the XM193.

The XM193 has a hell of a flash.

Just my observations.

Colt_SBR
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 11:13:49 AM EST
I shoot Q3131A exclusively because A) they sel it at academy and B) I hear it has the flash retardent.

There was a post about how easy XM193 is to load on stripper clips because of the box design. You might want to check it out if that is a concern
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 11:37:38 AM EST
I prefer Q3131A, it is said to be first rate, while the XM193 is supposed to be rejected lots. I havn`t have any problems with XM193, but it sure is alot more banged up and dirty than Q3131A.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 11:56:31 AM EST
xm193 is a little hotter YMMV
Remman
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 12:00:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 12:47:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By DigDug:

Originally Posted By IronSamVane:
I prefer Q3131A, it is said to be first rate, while the XM193 is supposed to be rejected lots. I havn`t have any problems with XM193, but it sure is alot more banged up and dirty than Q3131A.



M193 is the same way. It goes bang every time. I don't care how "pretty" it is. My vote is XM193. Seems to me there have been some concerns over Q3131A lately. Anyone have a link to the threads?



I havn`t seen any complaints on the Q3131A stuff i have been shut down with no connection since hurricane Ivan for the last month. I mention the xm193 being rejected lots so that someone who might not know that there was some reason the Gov. didn`t want it. It being banged up and filthy is just a personal annoyance of mine, i havn`t had any failures with it. Only had to toss some rounds that were too damaged..
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 12:51:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 1:12:08 PM EST
Q3131 white box is the one with problems. Q3131A is IMI made and I haven't heard of any problem. You might have confused the two.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 1:35:25 PM EST
Call me weird, but I like that big ole fireball!!!



XM193 all the way!!

Doc
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 1:39:01 PM EST
XM193 has a heckuva flash, especially if you don't have a FH. It is hotter - I forget the exact numbers, but in that G&A "Book of the AR-15" (yes, I know that issue was filled with errors, but the chrono tests were done by a separate guy ;) ) it was a good 50-100 ft/s faster.

I shoot the XM193 almost exclusively. Good stuff.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:25:11 PM EST
I have an old battle pack of the M1A3(89 vintage) anygood or so old I should open it up and blast it off?

Bob
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:33:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By bobbyjack:
I have an old battle pack of the M1A3(89 vintage) anygood or so old I should open it up and blast it off?

Bob



Not too old, hell look at the WWII surplus that people still shoot, that 8mm Mauser ammo ain't new manufacture.

As for me Q3131A is my personal choice.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:13:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By IronSamVane:
I prefer Q3131A, it is said to be first rate, while the XM193 is supposed to be rejected lots. I havn`t have any problems with XM193, but it sure is alot more banged up and dirty than Q3131A.





I don't know where you are getting your XM193 ammo. The stuff that I get comes in 500 rd. sealed cases, 25 brown boxes containing 20 rounds each. The cases and boxes are labeled Federal XM193. The brass is Lake City. All of this ammo is brand-new and as bright, shiny, and undented as any big-name factory ammo that you'll find on a dealers shelf.

It is very accurate in my AR's (for mil-spec ammo), and chrono's about 200fps (20" bbl.) higher over my Ohler 35P than any of the factory 55gr. ammo labeled .223, but it does exhibit more muzzle flash.

I like the Q3131A ammo, but I prefer this XM193 stuff and will continue to use it until the supply runs out. I buy an extra case (for my stash) from my local dealer ($90) every time I have a few extra bucks to spend. I've stashed five cases so far!

I understand that this ammo is NOT rejected stuff, but an overrun on Federal's Lake City military contract (they run the arsenal now). I wonder if the "XM193" that you describe is comprised of the M193 'floor sweepings' that one reads about, or some of the contraband that mysteriously 'disappeared' from the military? Did the ammo that you describe come packed loose in cans? If so, I don't believe that it's the same as the true XM193 that most people on this thread are refering to!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 5:53:35 AM EST
I'm a fan of 193. This summer I had been shooting some white box and ran out so I loaded up some 193 I had as well. Very noticable when shooting one after the other that the 193 had more spunk. Louder, big fireball, and the rifle actually recoiled a little!
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:33:38 AM EST
I bought two thousand rounds of XM193 Lot 1 when it became available a few years ago. It's hot, fairly accurate, and reliable, but it looks like shit. As long as it goes bang, I don't care. (I can't speak about the later lots of XM193, however. Is it the same stuff as the early lots?)

I've bought two thousand rounds of Q3131A over the past few years. It's hot, fairly accurate, and reliable, but it's shiny and pretty. As long as it goes bang, I don't care.


IMO, for its intended use, and for the same price, you're good to go with either one. Flip a coin.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:49:11 AM EST
With my 24" Bushy Hbar, the XM193 has zero flash in daylight. It just goes "bang" when I squeeze the trigger. Was it supposed to flash?

I hear it is loaded hotter, and my 24" barrel should give it an extra 100 or so fps muzzle velocity, but I didn't see or hear anything extraordinary. The bullet shoots very consistently (under 2 MOA at 100 yd).

The reason I went with the XM193 was that I heard it was loaded hotter than the Winchester.

XM193 is "dirtier" on the outside, and there were some dents on the brass. But out of the 5 boxes I used (Lot-075) none had any problems.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 9:52:52 AM EST
Since someone figured out how to quickly load stripper clips with xm, I pick xm.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:19:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By metroplex:
With my 24" Bushy Hbar, the XM193 has zero flash in daylight. It just goes "bang" when I squeeze the trigger. Was it supposed to flash?



Not from a 24" barrel.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:29:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Remman:
xm193 is a little hotter YMMV



+1. I agree with that.

I sense a slight bit more recoil with the '193 than the 3131.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:55:53 AM EST
Anyone got chrono data on them? I'd like to know what the avg difference is.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 10:58:36 AM EST
the XM193 is a shade more accurate than the Q3131A in my ar15....don't really notice the flash difference............
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 11:15:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Str8shot:
I wonder if the "XM193" that you describe is comprised of the M193 'floor sweepings' that one reads about



You mean its like an ammo wing hunt?



I'm going to shoot the 193 from my 20" hbar exclusively to get the high speed and fragmentation. I've got a case of the olympic m193 right now so we'll see how that turns out.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 11:18:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 1:00:00 PM EST by jblachly]
If 193 is hotter then I may sock some of that away for some end of the world type unlikely situation where I would need increased fragmentation range, otherwise for plinking I guess I'll take the lower-flash.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 12:04:50 PM EST
A good flash hider negates the lots of flash so who cares?
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:35:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By Str8shot:

Originally Posted By IronSamVane:
I prefer Q3131A, it is said to be first rate, while the XM193 is supposed to be rejected lots. I havn`t have any problems with XM193, but it sure is alot more banged up and dirty than Q3131A.





I don't know where you are getting your XM193 ammo. The stuff that I get comes in 500 rd. sealed cases, 25 brown boxes containing 20 rounds each. The cases and boxes are labeled Federal XM193. The brass is Lake City. All of this ammo is brand-new and as bright, shiny, and undented as any big-name factory ammo that you'll find on a dealers shelf.

It is very accurate in my AR's (for mil-spec ammo), and chrono's about 200fps (20" bbl.) higher over my Ohler 35P than any of the factory 55gr. ammo labeled .223, but it does exhibit more muzzle flash.

I like the Q3131A ammo, but I prefer this XM193 stuff and will continue to use it until the supply runs out. I buy an extra case (for my stash) from my local dealer ($90) every time I have a few extra bucks to spend. I've stashed five cases so far!

I understand that this ammo is NOT rejected stuff, but an overrun on Federal's Lake City military contract (they run the arsenal now). I wonder if the "XM193" that you describe is comprised of the M193 'floor sweepings' that one reads about, or some of the contraband that mysteriously 'disappeared' from the military? Did the ammo that you describe come packed loose in cans? If so, I don't believe that it's the same as the true XM193 that most people on this thread are refering to!



All my XM193 has come from Ammoman, all in the brown boxes of 20. All of it has been dirty and dinged, sometimes badly. The latest XM193 i have is Lot 030, so maybe they have started putting out clean shiny stuff since then. I believe i read Troy stating that the LC ammo was rejected lots and the Q3131A was first tier. *shrugs
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:12:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By IronSamVane:

Originally Posted By Str8shot:

Originally Posted By IronSamVane:
I prefer Q3131A, it is said to be first rate, while the XM193 is supposed to be rejected lots. I havn`t have any problems with XM193, but it sure is alot more banged up and dirty than Q3131A.





I don't know where you are getting your XM193 ammo. The stuff that I get comes in 500 rd. sealed cases, 25 brown boxes containing 20 rounds each. The cases and boxes are labeled Federal XM193. The brass is Lake City. All of this ammo is brand-new and as bright, shiny, and undented as any big-name factory ammo that you'll find on a dealers shelf.

It is very accurate in my AR's (for mil-spec ammo), and chrono's about 200fps (20" bbl.) higher over my Ohler 35P than any of the factory 55gr. ammo labeled .223, but it does exhibit more muzzle flash.

I like the Q3131A ammo, but I prefer this XM193 stuff and will continue to use it until the supply runs out. I buy an extra case (for my stash) from my local dealer ($90) every time I have a few extra bucks to spend. I've stashed five cases so far!

I understand that this ammo is NOT rejected stuff, but an overrun on Federal's Lake City military contract (they run the arsenal now). I wonder if the "XM193" that you describe is comprised of the M193 'floor sweepings' that one reads about, or some of the contraband that mysteriously 'disappeared' from the military? Did the ammo that you describe come packed loose in cans? If so, I don't believe that it's the same as the true XM193 that most people on this thread are refering to!



All my XM193 has come from Ammoman, all in the brown boxes of 20. All of it has been dirty and dinged, sometimes badly. The latest XM193 i have is Lot 030, so maybe they have started putting out clean shiny stuff since then. I believe i read Troy stating that the LC ammo was rejected lots and the Q3131A was first tier. *shrugs



Interesting! I'm quite sure that Troy knows more about this subject than I do. All of my XM193 is from LOT-50 and looks as good as it shoots. I remember looking at some M193 maybe a year or so ago that was dirty and dented as delivered. It came loose in surplus ammo cans from two large mail order outdoor supply houses. The word at that time was that the stuff was LC rejects and cosmetically it looked like it. But it seemed to work just fine.

A point has been raised that the present XM193 from Federal is rejected ammo because it lacks the bullet and primer sealer as required by mil-spec. A source that's close to the origin of this ammo claims that the individual components were already a surplus before being assembled as complete cartridges and Federal put these components together so they could sell them on the commercial market and realize a handsome profit out of something that had the potential of being a loss. As you well know, the sealers are just an extra expense and not really necessary for commercial use. Why should Federal go through the additional sealing operations if they didn't have to?

But this is only an "I heard" situation, and although the person that I heard it from is in a position to know, for me it's still only hearsay, so I make no claims as to its accuracy!
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