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Posted: 1/6/2003 9:38:01 PM EDT
Here are some unofficial pumpkin ballistic tests on a few different rounds...ok, I know they're a tad out of season but we had a few left over in fairly good shape. Three different rounds were used--XM193, Wolf 5.45x39, and Silver Bear .223 62gr. soft point.
Firing Platforms: AR-15 20" for the XM193, Buddy's AK-74 for the Wolf, Mini-14 for the SilverBear.
Distance: ~50yds
Temp: cold
Punkin elevation: atop an old paint can

XM193: .22 cal entry hole and exit hole about the size of a baseball.

5.45x39: .22cal entry hole and exit hole about the size of a softball.

Silver Bear SP: Blew the sucker to bits!!
I kid you not,there were chunks flying 15ft high in all directions. We both stood there amazed at each other, he asked what the heck was that..I said just this ol' cheap russian stuff. We tried it on the larger pieces...same thing, looked like we were throwing M-80 firecrackers at it.

Now...I know this is about as far from real ballistic testing as you can get,and there are about a gazillion variables...but even so,this soft point round is acting nothing like what ammo-oracle says they should. In fact, this round should have mushroomed and only had an exit slightly larger than the entry.
So...my questions are: Is this normal for ANY soft point rounds? Has anybody done any REAL testing on SilverBear ammo (gel,varmint)?

I know I'll probably get hammered by the perfectionists for discussing such unprofessional ballistics profiles, but hey, this is just plinkin' info...so let the flaming begin. But it might come in handy if you are ever attacked by angry pumpkins in the middle of the night.
Man, I can't wait till watermelon season opens.
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 9:41:00 PM EDT
So, are you gonna wait up with Linus for the Great Pumpkin to appear next Halloween?

Link Posted: 1/7/2003 11:02:04 AM EDT
I've heard that SP bullets in .224 caliber tend to fragment violently instead of mushrooming like they tend to do in larger calibers.  It must have somthing to do with higher rotational speeds, higher velocities, and thinner jackets.  Otherwise, I don't know.

The only bullets I have heard of mushrooming reliably are the PowerPoint and the Partition Gold.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 11:24:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 12:15:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 2:11:39 PM EDT
Damn, it never occurred to me I might get attacked by pumpkins [:o]

I don't know how much difference it makes with rifle rounds but handgun rounds can very greatly in ballistic gelatin, depending on if its 'clothed' or not. The charts I have seen published in Hanguns mag indicates that, as a general rule expansion decreases and penetration increases as the clothing becomes heavier. I supposed the hollow points clog up and then the round starts acting like ball ammo.

Link Posted: 1/7/2003 2:19:12 PM EDT
Daen, one more thing to prepare for.......
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 7:03:20 PM EDT
The lesson here is: [b]the medium matters.[/b]

A pumpkin is nothing like human flesh, nor like 10% ballistic gelatin, which was carefully selected and adjusted until it duplicated tissue as closely as possible.  Shooting at pumpkins is fun (pineapples are even better!), but they give you little useful data about human/animal terminal ballistic performance.

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I'm sure you are correct Troy, but to assume that a human body is well reflected by 10% ballistic gel is also of limited use.  Our body tissue is not even close to a uniform block of gel.  My wife does tons of GSW trauma as an orthopaedic surgeon.  It is very rare that a round doesn't strike a bone or connective tissue structure.  

In my book, real life combat experience trumps all lab work.  While one shot in a combat situation doesn't form a trend, thousands of case do.  One thing we know for sure, pumpkins don't shoot well!  Hence, kill more pumpkins.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 1:07:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 5:06:32 PM EDT
I knew I needed one of those VEPR AK type rifles for something and now here it is...... Home deffense Weapon against the Great Pumpkin! Thanks for the excuse guys!


P.S. I like to do informal ammo testing also have shot up all kinds of crap water jugs, wet paper, phone books, dry wall mud, wet clay, dry dirt, cured hams, and alot of hairy varmints... although I probably shouldnt I go by the ammo I judged to be the best from my own results.  
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