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Posted: 5/3/2005 10:47:22 AM EDT
My first few outings were with Remington 300grn HP's....they were cheap, feed very well and had great accuracy. Only problem was the seating stem was deforming the noses a bit because it was designed for the barnes semi spitzer. Not a big issue, I have Lee 44 one on order.

So the next time around I figured I would order up some of the 300 grn semi spitzers from barnes. Im beginning to think that was a big mistake. I loaded them to the COAL listed in martys spread sheet and thats when the fun started. I began having cartridges get stuck in the barrel...to the point where I had to really tug on the charging handle and in one instance pry on the bolt a little bit to help out. In fact one round basically pulled the bullet right out of the casing...and there was a very strong crimp on it so it took alot of effort. I went back and carefully reseated the majority of them and this helped out a bit.

I guess I am wondering if anyone else had these problems? I dont think I will be buying them again....they really didnt do anything better than the Remington HP's and they cost more. But I was just curious if I had overlooked something. The obvious solution was to seat them below the 2.25 listed.
Link Posted: 5/3/2005 11:10:07 AM EDT
I've had no problems whatsoever with Barnes SS.

Wild guess.... your case is too long. What did you trim them to?

Double check your C(ace)OAL.

Were these new, unfired brass cases or reload fired?

-LS
Link Posted: 5/3/2005 12:16:28 PM EDT
I'm betting you have one of the group buy barrels? Those loads were developed with some of his first barrels, and from everything that I've heard, are hot and long compared to what we got with the new barrels.

This has proven true with my upper that I got through the GP and another one that I got from the EE after the GP. I would suggest that you approach all information in the spread sheet as "Advisory" and work from there, both with powder charge and with seating depth.

I found this out the hard way with the Speer 400gn FN, I could not seat it out any longer than 2.090, but the Remington 405gn works for me at 2.200.

Tom
Link Posted: 5/3/2005 12:47:48 PM EDT
By having a bullet actually pull out of the case, it sounds like they are loaded too long.
Or, even with the crimp, the bullets are pulling out some from recoil.
HTH
Link Posted: 5/3/2005 1:33:51 PM EDT
Yea looks like they are just loaded too long. May have to investigate a lil further and see whats up.

The casings were once fired (my gun, reloaded.). Upper was bought from castle arms and was a recent shipment they recieved from Marty. Think it was in Feb. they got them in.

I'll check into the casings tonight, what is the trim to length for the .458 Socom? I doubt the bullets are pulling out from recoil, it is a very heavy crimp and when I unloaded the magazine to measure them again they hadn't moved any....just a matter of them being seated too long.

Thanks for the replies guys!
Link Posted: 5/3/2005 4:06:15 PM EDT
I have a max. trim of 1.595" to a min. of 1.575"
Link Posted: 5/4/2005 4:22:50 PM EDT
What's the exact part number for the bullet you're using?
Link Posted: 5/4/2005 5:34:53 PM EDT
Id have to look for the box, but I think its "ORI-457010". Barnes original semi spitzer 300grn bullet, 458 Diameter
Link Posted: 5/4/2005 5:38:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2005 5:39:10 PM EDT by DoubleARon]
That's your problem right there. Based on a conversation I had earlier today wtih Marty, he suspected that you were using the Barnes Original. He was unable to reply last night, as he was otherwise occupied. He should be along later this evening. The .458 was designed(and chamber reamers cut) for the 300 grain Barnes X. The ogive on the Barnes Original is significantly different than that of the X bullet. BTW, Marty is a member of the Barnes Advisory Staff.
Link Posted: 5/4/2005 7:14:19 PM EDT
OK, now that I don't have 30 lbs of sleeping little one in my arms ...

As Aaron pointed out, significant difference in the bullets we are talking about:


On the left, the 300 gr Barnes X Spitzer. Note the X in the name. This is the bullet the cartridge was designed around. Note that this bullet is such that the crimp groove matches the seating depth of the .458 SOCOM at the trim length of 1.575 (which is what I trim to and should be optimal for using the crimp groove on this bullet as well as the Rem 300 JHP). In other words, trim to 1.575, seat to 2.25 and you should be able to crimp into the groove (For the 300 Rem JHP this is at 1.575 and 2.02) This is also known as the 300 XFB, with a SD of .204 and BC of .340. At the muzzle velocity of the .458 SOCOM, it is just barely fast enough to expand, this is one fired at 1800 fps recovered at 50 yards.



On the right is the 300 gr Barnes Original SSSP. Note the shorter length, and the significantly different profile. Seating this one out to 2.25 is less than ideal, as it will not be seated to take full advantage of the neck, and the powder charges will be less than ideal with the remaining open space. Also, due to the different ogive, when seated out to 2.25", this one is likely to engage the rifling, which is what you encountered. This can lead to some real pressure spikes. I see no reason not to use this bullet, but seat it deeper, to where the tapered section is just about into the case mouth. YOU WILL HAVE TO WORK UP YOUR OWN LOAD FOR THIS!! DO NOT USE OUR LOADS FOR THIS AS THEY ARE MEANT FOR THE BULLET MENTIONED ABOVE. BTW, SD for this bullet is also .204, but the BC is .291 ....

When ordering from Midway, the part number for the X bullet is 669033 (~$15/20) and the SSSP bullet is 635838 (~$23/50) Both can be ordered from Barnes direct as well 300 gr X order info and 300 gr SSSP Order Info

The latest GB uppers all had the barrels cut with a JGS Carbide reamer, made to the exact same specs as the original (first) reamer, which was designed around the 300 gr X bullet seated at 2.25". Some of the other barrels were cut with standard reamers that may have seen some dulling and therefore may have tighter necks and shorter throats. We have encountered only one instance where this was significantly affecting the loads. This can be remedied easily with a .458 throater. The Speer 400s have the same ogive profile issue and can indeed not be seated out as far as one would like. Besides, the recoil impulse of the 400 gr FN loads is the worst and snaps the hardest. I avoid shooting them whenever I can ...

Hope this clears things up

Marty


Link Posted: 5/5/2005 10:06:28 AM EDT
Ahh thanks guys that solves it then. I thought the bullets were setting out of the case a bit too much. Hahah...guess I should have paid more attention to what I ordered. On a good note today my seating stem arrived (forgot I ordered it from CH4D, not lee) so I can seat the JHP without having to worry about deforming the nose.

Once again thanks everybody!
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 7:49:39 PM EDT
I am glad this was brought up. I am using starline brass, rem 300gn JHPs and a COL of 2.02- 2.05. With my starline brass that has been fired once, and even with the new brass, when the round is in the chamber, it is impossible to pull it out by hand. I have to rap the butstock on the deck. I thought it was gust being new and needed to break in. Additionally, sometimes the round doesn't seat all the way in the chamber and I have to clear it and attempt to rechamber another round. Could this be headspace? What do ya'll think?
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 8:26:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VEPRguy1:
I am glad this was brought up. I am using starline brass, rem 300gn JHPs and a COL of 2.02- 2.05. With my starline brass that has been fired once, and even with the new brass, when the round is in the chamber, it is impossible to pull it out by hand. I have to rap the butstock on the deck. I thought it was gust being new and needed to break in. Additionally, sometimes the round doesn't seat all the way in the chamber and I have to clear it and attempt to rechamber another round. Could this be headspace? What do ya'll think?



Headspace would not cause the sticking you describe, and your upper was test fired with both new CorBon loads as well as my reloads. The Starline brass should drop in the chamber without issue. Try a new piece of brass, FL size it, clean off the lube, trim to 1.575 and drop in the chamber by hand. It should fall right in. I think your extractor might be giving you fits, but again, every upper is tested first with about 20 dummy rounds hand cycling and when it passes that, it goes to test firing, typically 2 rounds HV JHP and 2 rounds RN Subsonic. Only when it passes without failure does it go to cleaning, packing and shipping ...

If issues persist, ship the upper as is to me, I will pay shipping, and I will test it to see what might be the issue.

Marty
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 9:00:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/5/2005 9:02:28 PM EDT by VEPRguy1]
Thanks Marty, I'll try that and get back to you. The round drops in fine and so does the brass. This is only when the bolt is home with a round in the chamber.-John
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 9:09:07 PM EDT
That sounds like the extractor. Did you alter it in any way (add the D-fender, etc?) If not, I can send you one or two in the mail to swap, should make the problem go away. The 223 version looks so damn much like the regular, we had 100 of them shipped to us and about 15 of them were the 223 kind instead of the .458 kind. This problem you describe happens when the hook is out too far (pushed out by the rim) while trying to go in battery. Thus my suspicion of the extractor. The fact that brass drops right in indicates this is where to look for the problem.

Marty
Link Posted: 5/6/2005 6:07:26 PM EDT
That sounds more likely. I haven't done anything tp it. I'll shoot you my address if you don't still have it. Thanks-John
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 11:52:58 PM EDT
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