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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 5/4/2003 9:45:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 11:15:36 AM EDT by ncc1701]
Results of Wolf 223 data poll
Data provided by forum shooters
Please note this poll was taken before wolf stoped sealing case necks.
Question was “Does Wolf 223 function in your rifle”

Manufaturer Response
Armalite Yes 4 No 0
Bushmaster Yes 20 No 3
Colt Yes 13 No 0
DPMS Yes 4 No 0
Eagle Arms Yes 2 No 0
HK Yes 1 No 0
J&T Yes 1 No 0
Krieger Yes 2 No 0
M&A Yes 4 No 0
Olympic Yes 8 No 0
Robinson Yes 0 No 1
RRA Yes 3 No 0
Ruger Yes 3 No 0

What does this all mean?
Wolf ammo should function fine in your rifle.

If your rifle will not function with Wolf, your rifle is the problem.

Before the Flames begin and people get upset please look at the data and read the next lines.

Wolf is plinking ammo (not loaded to military pressures) and as such will expose problems in an action such as binding parts, improper gas port size, mag problems.

Wolf ammo has a case coating that will grab onto not spec, rough, or unclean chambers leading to FTE related jams. The data did not show any correlation between chrome lining and reliability with wolf ammo.

Final thoughts, Even though wolf is shot by the truckload across the US because it’s cheap plinking ammo, it should not be used for critical situations such as home defense.

Final Verdict Wolf ammo is not to blame, I know many people will be upset to hear that there pride and joy is the culprit. A rifle in good functioning condition should work fine with wolf and if it doesn’t look to the rifle.

Ps. I don’t work for wolf and many people might remember me asking them to provide data for this post, I have no great love or hate for wolf ammo “it does what it does”
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 3:05:49 PM EDT
Yeah I agree Wolf is good ammo! Any GOOD AR15 can eat it up! I dont know why Bushmaster will void warranty if you shoot wolf? Ive shot every kind of 5.56mm and 223 that I can find and all went FINE! I can only complian about 1 brand Ive tried and it was WINCHESTERS M855 that had 4 to 1 tracer on LINKS that came from Desert storm! It was the Dirtyest ammo I ever shot!Other than that it was FINE
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 3:27:47 PM EDT
"Final thoughts, Even though wolf is shot by the truckload across the US because it’s cheap plinking ammo, it should not be used for critical situations such as home defense." Why? What data supports this claim?
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 3:31:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 3:59:08 PM EDT
While I really don't want to argue with Captain kirk here [;)] - I shoot this ammo through my rifle. That being said, saying that it is your rifles fault if it won't shoot this ammo is a little strong of a statement. All rifles are particular to what they will shoot well. Quality of rifle and ammunition do not have to be a factor. Some rifles that are high quality just will not shoot some ammo well, others will. No one can tell you how a round will funtion, or how accurate or a round will be in a particular weapon.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 4:16:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 4:32:54 PM EDT by gootmacher]
i am under the assumption that a good assault weapon/combat rifle should function with any brand of ammo, if your in eastern europe and are in a firefight and run out of american 223 ammo are you going to ask the enemy to stop and wait for you to go back to america and get some american ammo? Or grab some ammo off of the dead enemy and use theirs. A good assault rifle will have the capability of feeding any ammo you have to feed it in a combat situation. just my thoughts. no flamage intended to those people with bench rifles that wont function on anything but american ammo. i wouldnt use wolf for self defence, i have milspec ammo for that kind of stuff, but its great plinkin ammo. i been through 8000 rounds of wolf with no problems.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 6:20:32 PM EDT
Try a poll asking the question "Have you been able to run 1000 rounds of Wolf through a particular AR-15 with zero failures to function." Cleaning between shooting sessions, of course. I just wonder how many of your "yes" voters are willing to put up with some malfunctions to save money on the ammo. Just curious. I have never shot Wolf in my AR. I have shot 7.62X39, it is dirty stinky stuff. A friend of mine locked up his HK USP .45ACP on about the fourth round of Wolf. The spent case was practically welded into the chamber. By the time he got it pried open, we both though he had broken some parts. He asked me if I wanted the rest of what he had. [>:/] I declined his generous offer. I've read both sides of this ongoing debate many times. If you like it, shoot it. I just think your poll falls short of providing convincing evidence that would settle the debate.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 7:45:49 PM EDT
A friend of mine locked up his HK USP .45ACP on about the fourth round of Wolf. The spent case was practically welded into the chamber. By the time he got it pried open, we both though he had broken some parts.
View Quote
That elusive 'friend' always has such terrible luck! Everyone mentions how this 'friend' fellow has had wolf destroy just about every firearm it was shot in. This poor 'friend' guy must not have any working rifles left! That wolf is a killer!
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 7:47:29 PM EDT
I think that even if someone bought a new AR and ran 10,000 rounds thru it the results would still not be accepted.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 8:01:28 PM EDT
Wolf runs fine in all my weapons. It is dirty and I have had about 1 or 2 failure to fire per 1000. But we are talking about range ammo, for blasting. I do not know anyone who insists on 100% perfection from blasting ammo. YMMV. Bob
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 8:36:37 PM EDT
I've run quite a bit of wolf .223 and 9mm...
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 9:09:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 9:10:43 PM EDT by Ianq]
I've never heard of this, is it true?
Yeah I agree Wolf is good ammo! Any GOOD AR15 can eat it up! I dont know why Bushmaster will void warranty if you shoot wolf?
View Quote
If it is true, isn't this illegal??? It's like when ford (maybe it was another car manufac.) said that their customers HAD to use brand X oil or their car warranty was voided. Went to the courts and it was ruled illegal to void the warranty, that customers could use any oil they wanted. Wouldn't the same apply here? If the gun is designed to shoot .223 ammo (or 5.56) a manufacturer can't tell you what brand you can/can't use as long as you use the correct cal. ammo. P.S. Don't ask me for dates/more info the the court case. I read about it a few years ago and I know it was a long time ago. [argue]
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 9:57:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 9:58:53 PM EDT by gootmacher]
i have shot over a thousand rounds of wolf thru my bushmaster with zero failures, i usually go through 300 to 400 rounds when i go out to shoot. i clean my rifle after every session and havent had any problems, except when i bought some usa mags and tried to use them. i use okay and thermolds mags. i just bought a 20" bushmaster and shot 300 rounds through it to break it in, i also shot 300 rounds out of my 16" bushmaster also. no failure whatsoever. its not bad ammo just stiky and dirty. i have looked at my bushmaster warranty and cannot find where it states shooting wolf ammo voids the warranty.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 10:01:07 PM EDT
by the way , i believe wolf ammo was responsable for the sinking of the kursk submarine, but i heard that from a freind.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 11:19:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 11:27:40 PM EDT by ncc1701]
I will try to explain the results with a simple bit of logic so you can know I did my homework. (1) If part A fails to function in device B, But does function in device B’s clone then.. (1a) B devices can not be truly identical. (2) If part A falls into mass production (ammo) and fails repeatedly in B but not B’s clone then.. (2a) It is statistically (almost) impossible for B to always be getting the bad A part. For the ammo to be at fault B rifle would "always" have to be getting the bad ammo. This would be like reaching into a deck of cards and pulling only aces repeatedly. Unless you’re a very unlucky person, you have to look at device B the rifle. As for ammo count not being included in the poll, I did assumed each shooter shot more than 1 cartridge. I would think most people would find that assumption reasonable. So unless a great many shooters only shot 1 round then the above (1) & (2) must be true.
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 6:58:01 AM EDT
Wolf works fine for me, unless I want to hit somthing. I get about 6 MOA with it. My gun doesn't like Guatemalean 5.56mm either, I get about 4 MOA with that. I do agree with the main premise. Wolf works, but not in all rifles. Therefore it is the rifle's fault if Wolf won't work. That doesn't mean it is a bad rifle. The most accurate rifles probably have the most problems with Wolf.
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 8:09:48 AM EDT
No problems with Wolf 223, even before they stopped putting the red lacquer around the case neck. On the other hand, my HK USP40F does not like Wolf. When I first acquired the weapon, I bought a box of Wolf, hoping that it would work and it would save me some money. No dice. In the first fifty rounds I had five failures to eject the spent case. Each was jammed in the chamber. So after that, no Wolf in my USP. I started reloading my own .40 for blasting at that point. I know that other folks use Wolf pistol ammo with no problems. [pistol]
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 8:21:55 AM EDT
"The most accurate rifles probably have the most problems with Wolf." I did not find the above data poll to support that statement. Many of the "yes" respondent’s rifles were target models.
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 8:26:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ncc1701: "The most accurate rifles probably have the most problems with Wolf." I did not find the above data poll to support that statement. Many of the "yes" respondent’s rifles were target models.
View Quote
I'm talking about .223 chambered stainless steel rifles that shoot .25 MOA. Not my Bushmaster E2SA3 "Target Rifle".
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 5:44:16 PM EDT
I have fired 1500 rounds of Wolf ammo thru my Bushmaster 16" barrel. I only expierenced one problem with a case getting stuck in the chamber after shooting two 30 round mag and on the third mag the forth round case stuck in the breach. It took a little effort to remove the round, and after that I continued to fire 500 rounds with not one miss feed or miss fire.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 3:48:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tonys68l36: I think that even if someone bought a new AR and ran 10,000 rounds thru it the results would still not be accepted.
View Quote
I think Tony nailed it... [;)]
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 12:53:42 PM EDT
Yes BUSHMASTER TOLD ME THAT USEING ANY STEEL CASE AMMO WOULD VOID WARRANTY! This is the only reason I no longer shoot the stuff! Wolf out of my bushmasters is a bit more accurate than Q3131,Q3131A,XM193! Any good AR15 / Bushmaster Should eat up Wolf!!
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 7:01:10 AM EDT
The only thing that I do not like about Wolf is that it is difficult to use with stripper clips. Otherwise, it is great blasting ammo. Go Wolf!
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:54:43 PM EDT
If Wolf is so good then why are people constantly having to defend it? If your rifle malfunctions while using that junk then you get what you deserve.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:58:17 PM EDT
... All my ARs eat Wolf like a child eats candy. Oh course, mine are properly configured and maintained.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 7:59:01 AM EDT
Great post, ncc ! ! I too use Wolf as blasting ammo. In the 223 caliber I use it in a Armalite, a Bushy, and sometimes in a Colt. All chrome lined. And . . in a SAR-3 too ! About one FTF in 1000 rounds on the average. Now in the 7.62 X 39 caliber, I have never had any problems ! Would never (well. . . at least I hope ! ) use it as a defense round, but for blasting and the steel plate shoots, it works fine. Just clean and maintain your equipment (read that "rifle") and Wolf will work for you too. Again - - -GREAT post ! ! !
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 10:43:05 AM EDT
BeeBee2, Without a doubt, proper cleaning and maintenance is critical no matter what ammo a person chooses to use.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 11:18:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By armatt15: If Wolf is so good then why are people constantly having to defend it?
View Quote
Same reason people have to keep defending the AR rifle or the 5.56 cartridge. When I first got my rifle I tried running some Wolf through it, as I had used it in my SKS. Every other shot was a jam. Kind of scared me off it. Then I found you don't lubricate like a bolt action rifle! I hadn't tried Wolf again until last week. 300 rnds, no problem. Got about 3" groups at 100 yards.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 2:08:06 PM EDT
I've put at least 5,000 rounds of Wolf through each of my AR's. Never had an ammo related problem. What's not to like about blasting ammo that runs around $90/1000 rds? If your rifle doesn't like Wolf--don't use it!
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 3:47:36 PM EDT
TennVol, Amen
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 9:21:14 PM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 11:40:09 PM EDT
Well there was this one time at band camp and my friend had some wolf ammo....
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 3:41:06 AM EDT
I just fired 120 plus along with 200, Federal, Lake City and Winchester out of a Bushy XM15-E2s that had only fired a box of Ultramax at an indoor range in its short "history." Not only zero FTEs, FTFs, but I really couldn't even tell the difference in noise, recoil and maybe not accuracy although I shot most Wolf from the offhand yesterday. Need to clean my stuff tonight and tomorrow, but at first glance it didn't seem overly dirty. I will buy more Wolf and I will even shoot its HPs from a local indoor range as I did not find the slightly different smell offensive either. Who needs SA anyway?
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