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Page AR-15 » AR Discussions
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 2/23/2007 12:39:22 PM EDT
The "Operator" barrel I bought from GTS came with an A2 birdcage flash hider.  I am trying to install a Smith Vortex flash hider on it.  The Vortex instructions say to not use any washers of any type with the Vortex.  It also says the Vortex has a skirt at its back end that fits over the non-threaded end of the barrel, however, the Operator barrel's diameter is too big for the Vortex skirt to fit over.

So, when I hand tighten the Vortex and look at the muzzle, I notice an air gap between the crown and where the Vortex metal begins after the threads.  If the skirt were to slip over the barrel, there would not be an air gap at the muzzle and the Vortex would touch the crown.  I am assuming that the Vortex is designed to touch the crown.  Am I wrong?  Anyone have a solution or suggestions?  Will this 1/8" air gap (which is basically the length of the skirt) create air turbulence at the crown resulting in a decrease in accuracy?  Thanks for all replies...
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 12:50:47 PM EDT
[#1]
I'd be more afraid of fouling building up around the crown and under the vortex than air turbulence.

either way, I don't think a 1/8" gap is a good thing.

the vortex is 8620 hardened steel so I don't know how feasible it'd be for you to grind off the skirt, then touch it up with paint.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 1:04:26 PM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:
I'd be more afraid of fouling building up around the crown and under the vortex than air turbulence.

either way, I don't think a 1/8" gap is a good thing.

the vortex is 8620 hardened steel so I don't know how feasible it'd be for you to grind off the skirt, then touch it up with paint.


If I grind off the skirt, should I then use a washer?
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 1:15:04 PM EDT
[#3]
Noveske sells a M4/M249 Vortex with larger diameter skirt.
I don't know if this will fix you up or not.
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 1:18:07 PM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'd be more afraid of fouling building up around the crown and under the vortex than air turbulence.

either way, I don't think a 1/8" gap is a good thing.

the vortex is 8620 hardened steel so I don't know how feasible it'd be for you to grind off the skirt, then touch it up with paint.


If I grind off the skirt, should I then use a washer?


I don't know if this has been done before so everything from this point on is pure opinion.

so, IMO, if the muzzle threads are visible after grinding off the collar, I'd use a peel or crush washer.

As long as the vortex is flush against the muzzle you should be good to go.  the washer would serve cosmetic purposes only (simply fill he gap).
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 1:26:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 1:27:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Call Denny...
I am sure he has seen this before and has an answer, perhaps he can swap it with a mod'd one... Denny is a great guy to deal with!

Or, a quick chuck up in the lathe as AR15barrels suggested sounds like a solution...
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 1:29:13 PM EDT
[#7]
I ended up throwing in a crush washer on mine.

Hardwarz
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 1:37:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 3:43:56 PM EDT
[#9]
What I what to no, is why not to use a Crush or peel washer.

If it self tightens to the barrel, it can do the same to any thing placed behind it.

I have yet to see a satisfactory answer other then "Don't"
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 3:46:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 2/23/2007 6:17:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Now THAT's a satisfactory answer...thank you..Randall...
Link Posted: 3/8/2007 6:28:59 AM EDT
[#12]
Does anyone know if an AAC M4-2000 Flash Hider (the new Phantom style) will slip over the barrel? It extends back over the barrel like the Vortex.
Link Posted: 3/8/2007 7:04:48 AM EDT
[#13]
I purchase a votrex fash suppressor. it didn't bottom out.  Double checked, and the space is the exact size of a crush washer.  Therefore I used it.  I know it should have bottomed out and went flush.  This made me wonder if there was something up with my barrel.

I checked my other barrel, and it was the same.  Maybe the gunshow sales person sold me a fake one with Vortex paperwork?

Hardwarz
Link Posted: 3/12/2007 5:19:28 AM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
Does anyone know if an AAC M4-2000 Flash Hider (the new Phantom style) will slip over the barrel? It extends back over the barrel like the Vortex.


To answer my own question, my operator barrel arrived Friday and my AAC M4-2000 Flash Hider (the new Phantom style) does slip over the barrel just fine.
Link Posted: 4/9/2007 7:28:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Not me.

I just got my Denny's Recon barrel (16" SS WOA 1:7) and the skirt does not fit over.

Its a Vortex G-6.

I didn't even think about it as the site base is standard. I guess the profile tapers less from the site base than other barrels.

Does anyone know if there is a newer Vortex that will fit and where said vortex could be found? It wasn't really clear from this thread.
Link Posted: 4/9/2007 7:54:26 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 4/9/2007 8:03:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Then send it to you I shall.

I'll send you an email to arrange it.

Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 4/9/2007 8:30:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 10:12:03 AM EDT
[#19]
I have a RRA Elite CAR A4 and just ordered the Vortex.  Anyone know it RRA barrels have the same issues with the fit?
Link Posted: 4/21/2007 10:19:13 AM EDT
[#20]
Just wanted to say that this must be a freak thing -as the Vortex fits perfectly on my Denny's Operator bbl.

Edited:  I re-read the original post and I too have the 1/8" gap between the crown and un-threaded portion of the Vortex.  I remember when I talked to Denny on the phone that he uses a little red Loctite on Vortex installs.  So I guess I am pretty much screwed if I want to take this thing off.

Should I be concerned about safety or accuracy issues with debris and fouling collecting in the Vortex gap?  I wouldn't have selected the Vortex/Operator bbl. configuration if had known about this issue. Hopefully Denny will chime in with some advice or info.

Link Posted: 4/21/2007 11:31:47 AM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 4/22/2007 9:43:36 PM EDT
[#22]
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