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Posted: 12/2/2018 11:29:30 AM EST
I'm looking at possibly purchasing one to replace my failing EOTech 557.

Basically I was using the 557 with a 5X magnifier on one rifle, to make up to 500-600 Yard/Meter shots ....but when I flipped the magnifier to the side, I could make fast CC shots.

The PA ACSS Recticle appears to be somewhat similar to the BDR in the 557.

Anyway what magnification should I be looking for with these scopes?

Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 12:15:00 PM EST
I have a PA 2.5x and really love that sweet optic! It's as fast cqb to me as a red dot because it has a great field of view, clear glass and good range of eye relief. Plus it lets me comfortably stretch my accuracy downrange to 200 yards pretty easily. I am planning a 6.5 Grendel build for hunting and considering a 5x prism scope or a 1.5x to 6x variable scope. But I like the prism scopes so much I'm leaning that way.
As far as the lower power scopes, I really see no advantage of the 1x versus the 2.5x (still can be found I think). Also probably the 3x. Like I say I know the 2.5x is clear focus as close as 10 feet or less. When you shoulder the rifle, you don't have to "search" for the image at all like you do a regular long scope. It just pops into view FAST! And that reticle they designed centers you on target FAST. Plus the center dot is small enough to let you do precision shooting at longer ranges. I'm not affiliated with PA but I am definitely a Yuge fanboy!
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 12:46:41 PM EST
I have the gen1 5x... I wish they made it in a 4x.

Love the reticle, place where I used to work had most of the models so I could compare before I bought..

I first used it on a pinned and welded 14.5" 5.56, now it resides on a 20" Grendel. Still working fine after three years. Rattle can camo.

Sine the reticle is etched, you'll have it when the battery is dead.

Actually been considering buying another.
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 1:01:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/2/2018 1:09:20 PM EST by GrimEReaper]
Hey Lockstep. Glad to have someone to discuss the 5x on a Grendel. Obviously I know the FOV will be more narrow. But does it still have that quality of a quick "eyebox" to get the sight image quickly? How close can it focus? Would it be any use at all "up close" as in cqb or more of a hindrance? Thanks!

ETA
Italianstallion like Lockstep mentioned the etched reticle works fine in daylight without the illumination on. When I am hunting with mine once dawn is past I turn off the light. Also when target or plinking I rarely use the illumination. When you want the light on just a quick knob turn. Not any of the fuckery with holding buttons or having to program something or wait for it to come on.
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 1:37:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/2/2018 1:44:24 PM EST by Lockstep]
If you need fast, just turn on the illumination with the front cap Closed. Look with Both eyes open, your brain does the rest.

Helps if you're familiar with shooting both eyes open of course..

At 5x, it isn't the fastest
I don't really use this optic much inside 50-60 yards, and like 300 on the outside. More than that and I'd prefer a different rifle with a 4-16x...
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 1:44:54 PM EST
I've gotten away from low power variables due to shitty eye boxes at magnification. I've had multiple PA prisms because of this, but not the 1X.

The 3X will have a considerably better eye box than the 5X, but I feel like the magnification is too low for that reticle. It also only comes in red, and green is immensely better for my aging eyes. Dare I say the 3X didn't feel like 3X past 25 yards? I don't know if that makes sense, but is probably a representation of my eyes I guess.

I love the 5X. I wish the glass quality was better, and the eye box is only 7mm, but this thing combines to become my favorite prism optic. The green illumination is a huge deal for my eyes. Anything red triggers my astigmatism, and it's brighter. Rapid transitions from 25 to 50 to 100 yards off hand, it left the red dots and low powers in the dust.

As to up close work, shut the front cap with the illumination on and use it like a red dot. Seriously. It's off a couple inches at 25 yards, or about where I'd prefer magnification if I needed it more accurate than that. This is another area where the 5X shines. The reticle is "smoother" for this, and it has less POA/POI deflection than the 3X when using it occluded. It's not going to outperform a red dot in speed or accuracy up close, but it will be faster than with the cap open.
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 2:19:38 PM EST
Thanks to everyone for the replies.

So it seems for what I want to do, I'm best served going with 5X?
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 2:25:01 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
I've gotten away from low power variables due to shitty eye boxes at magnification. I've had multiple PA prisms because of this, but not the 1X.

The 3X will have a considerably better eye box than the 5X, but I feel like the magnification is too low for that reticle. It also only comes in red, and green is immensely better for my aging eyes. Dare I say the 3X didn't feel like 3X past 25 yards? I don't know if that makes sense, but is probably a representation of my eyes I guess.

I love the 5X. I wish the glass quality was better, and the eye box is only 7mm, but this thing combines to become my favorite prism optic. The green illumination is a huge deal for my eyes. Anything red triggers my astigmatism, and it's brighter. Rapid transitions from 25 to 50 to 100 yards off hand, it left the red dots and low powers in the dust.

As to up close work, shut the front cap with the illumination on and use it like a red dot. Seriously. It's off a couple inches at 25 yards, or about where I'd prefer magnification if I needed it more accurate than that. This is another area where the 5X shines. The reticle is "smoother" for this, and it has less POA/POI deflection than the 3X when using it occluded. It's not going to outperform a red dot in speed or accuracy up close, but it will be faster than with the cap open.
View Quote
Olds442tyguy, you mention green reticle? On a PA scope? Or is that the Burris scope? Im also wanting to try the Burris because of the green illumination. Green normally catches my eye easier. PA is only red right?
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 2:29:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/2/2018 2:31:12 PM EST by SouthernPhantom]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
I've gotten away from low power variables due to shitty eye boxes at magnification. I've had multiple PA prisms because of this, but not the 1X.

The 3X will have a considerably better eye box than the 5X, but I feel like the magnification is too low for that reticle. It also only comes in red, and green is immensely better for my aging eyes. Dare I say the 3X didn't feel like 3X past 25 yards? I don't know if that makes sense, but is probably a representation of my eyes I guess.

I love the 5X. I wish the glass quality was better, and the eye box is only 7mm, but this thing combines to become my favorite prism optic. The green illumination is a huge deal for my eyes. Anything red triggers my astigmatism, and it's brighter. Rapid transitions from 25 to 50 to 100 yards off hand, it left the red dots and low powers in the dust.

As to up close work, shut the front cap with the illumination on and use it like a red dot. Seriously. It's off a couple inches at 25 yards, or about where I'd prefer magnification if I needed it more accurate than that. This is another area where the 5X shines. The reticle is "smoother" for this, and it has less POA/POI deflection than the 3X when using it occluded. It's not going to outperform a red dot in speed or accuracy up close, but it will be faster than with the cap open.
View Quote
I've also had good results using PA prisms as occluded-eye optics for CQB. Absolutely hammered targets in up-close drills with that technique.

The 2.5x is a great little optic. It has a wide enough field of view and low enough magnification to work well up close, but enough magnification to give you a significant edge in target identification over a red dot. Pretty much a dead-simple rifleman's optic that excels beyond about 25yds and still gets it done up close.
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 2:30:27 PM EST
Well color me happy! I see now PA's 5x has green illumination too!

PA just staying on top!

PA 5x
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 5:34:04 PM EST
Yep, the 5X has green. They sacrifice a few mid range illumination options for a whole nother color and I'm happy about that.

If you have an astigmatism, it can still trigger on illuminated etched reticles, contrary to what most say. I've found circles in general cause it when illuminated, but red is the worst. Green causes some splash for me, but it's still obvious where the dot us, unlike a red dot.
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 7:09:49 PM EST
What is the purpose of the 1X Prism Scope?

Is it supposed to be used with a magnifier to boost the range?
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 7:29:54 PM EST
What type of info did you find in the PA industry sub forum? Also trust that you cross posted this over there too.
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 7:35:41 PM EST
I dig my 3X.
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 7:37:35 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Italianstallion:
What is the purpose of the 1X Prism Scope?

Is it supposed to be used with a magnifier to boost the range?
View Quote
To have a red dot type optic that doesn't rely on batteries or electronics. Also negates astigmatism.
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 8:14:04 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:

To have a red dot type optic that doesn't rely on batteries or electronics. Also negates astigmatism.
View Quote
Thank you.
Link Posted: 12/2/2018 8:54:04 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Italianstallion:

Thank you.
View Quote
Another is that it offers their a acss reticle. None of their other red dots do although a holsun one offered does. The acss really enhances beyond a regular 2 moa dot or whatever because it has a very a accurate BDC built into it as well as wind holds and ranging capability
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 10:34:34 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Italianstallion:
What is the purpose of the 1X Prism Scope?

Is it supposed to be used with a magnifier to boost the range?
View Quote
etched reticle when not illuminated

speed
Link Posted: 12/4/2018 11:06:14 AM EST
The 2.5x is the cats berries. I love it. Huge eyebox. They are on back order or you can find a used one on EE fairly regularly. I have some man sized silhouette steel and at 100 yards the horseshoe presents a perfect size around the head to give you an idea of reticle size.
Link Posted: 12/4/2018 11:11:41 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Italianstallion:
What is the purpose of the 1X Prism Scope?

Is it supposed to be used with a magnifier to boost the range?
View Quote
apparently it can be
Link Posted: 12/4/2018 11:45:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/4/2018 11:50:57 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PA_Mike:
It's not nearly as good with a magnifier as a red dot is. You have to monkey with the adjustable diopter ring on the Cyclops and also the adjustable diopter ring on the magnifier until by sheer luck they align for your eyes so that the reticle is sharp AND the background is sharp. For some people's eyes this never happens at all. Then, when you pull away the magnifier on it's flip to side mount, you have to monkey with the Cyclops diopter AGAIN to set it to work with your eyes at 1x. If you wanted to, you could mark the two Cyclops diopter positions with a dab of paint to quickly switch back and forth, but this is a slow and clunky arrangement that I really can't recommend.

If you want 3x magnification we have our 3x prism scopes available at a great price in both black and FDE colors. These are great little scopes for the money and stupid tough-- we are thinking about putting a picture in next year's product catalog of a Toyota Tundra with it's tire standing on top of one.

If you want great 1x performance and you have astigmatism that makes red dots problematic, and you also want some magnification, the best answer is a low power variable optic like our 1-6x ACSS SFP or our 1-6x ACSS "Raptor" FFP. They are more bulky than our red dots, and a bit more expensive, but by the time you add a magnifier and the magnifier mount you have caught up to the low power variable in both price and size/weight, and the increased capability that a 1-6x gives you is WELL worth it in my opinion.

Anyway, this thread is kind of all over the place, so I haven't stepped in yet, but you guys know I'm always available with honest answers to your questions.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PA_Mike:
Originally Posted By Alaskanforfreedom:
Originally Posted By Italianstallion:
What is the purpose of the 1X Prism Scope?

Is it supposed to be used with a magnifier to boost the range?
apparently it can be
It's not nearly as good with a magnifier as a red dot is. You have to monkey with the adjustable diopter ring on the Cyclops and also the adjustable diopter ring on the magnifier until by sheer luck they align for your eyes so that the reticle is sharp AND the background is sharp. For some people's eyes this never happens at all. Then, when you pull away the magnifier on it's flip to side mount, you have to monkey with the Cyclops diopter AGAIN to set it to work with your eyes at 1x. If you wanted to, you could mark the two Cyclops diopter positions with a dab of paint to quickly switch back and forth, but this is a slow and clunky arrangement that I really can't recommend.

If you want 3x magnification we have our 3x prism scopes available at a great price in both black and FDE colors. These are great little scopes for the money and stupid tough-- we are thinking about putting a picture in next year's product catalog of a Toyota Tundra with it's tire standing on top of one.

If you want great 1x performance and you have astigmatism that makes red dots problematic, and you also want some magnification, the best answer is a low power variable optic like our 1-6x ACSS SFP or our 1-6x ACSS "Raptor" FFP. They are more bulky than our red dots, and a bit more expensive, but by the time you add a magnifier and the magnifier mount you have caught up to the low power variable in both price and size/weight, and the increased capability that a 1-6x gives you is WELL worth it in my opinion.

Anyway, this thread is kind of all over the place, so I haven't stepped in yet, but you guys know I'm always available with honest answers to your questions.
I appreciate your honest response. I dont have personal experience with this product but somebody did correct me in a different thread when I told them it prism scopes cant be used with magnifiers.
Link Posted: 12/4/2018 11:59:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/4/2018 12:00:55 PM EST by PA_Mike]
Link Posted: 12/15/2018 11:39:28 PM EST
2.5x is missing from OP's list.. and there was 4x also (discontinued).

Thoughts on 2.5x vs 3x?
Link Posted: 12/15/2018 11:52:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GrimEReaper:
I have a PA 2.5x and really love that sweet optic! It's as fast cqb to me as a red dot because it has a great field of view, clear glass and good range of eye relief. Plus it lets me comfortably stretch my accuracy downrange to 200 yards pretty easily. I am planning a 6.5 Grendel build for hunting and considering a 5x prism scope or a 1.5x to 6x variable scope. But I like the prism scopes so much I'm leaning that way.
As far as the lower power scopes, I really see no advantage of the 1x versus the 2.5x (still can be found I think). Also probably the 3x. Like I say I know the 2.5x is clear focus as close as 10 feet or less. When you shoulder the rifle, you don't have to "search" for the image at all like you do a regular long scope. It just pops into view FAST! And that reticle they designed centers you on target FAST. Plus the center dot is small enough to let you do precision shooting at longer ranges. I'm not affiliated with PA but I am definitely a Yuge fanboy!
View Quote
Everything he said. It is fast as a RDS at close range - (Just put target inside the horseshoe) and still plenty accurate at distances that a non-magnified RDS may have trouble with. Etched Reticle means even if TEOTWAWKI hits, you can still shoot.

Bonus is that it uses ACOG mounts, so you can also set it up Q.D. - (I used the American Defense Mounts)...

Really like it as a great all arounder set up.

Don't work there (Primary Arms), but wish I did! (employee discount would help with as much as I buy there!)
Link Posted: 12/16/2018 12:27:23 AM EST
Interesting.
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