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Posted: 7/31/2005 6:58:43 PM EDT
I am going to get a 5.56 upper or complete system in a 16 inch size.it must have rails.no full auto just semi.chrome bore/chamber.with this in mind who would be the best?POF is where I am leaning to.is there a better choice?I am non mil/leo so this is for fun.lietner is the only other I am aware of.any suggestions are welcomed

thanks
Rick
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 7:00:50 PM EDT
I believe both Leitner wise and POF are going to be excellent quality. Or you could go H&K if you feel like dumping well over 2 grand on an upper alone.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 7:10:16 PM EDT
I really like HK but I cannot see paying that much just for a logo.It would be tits to own a 416
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 7:12:18 PM EDT
There are some board members here with Leitner-Wise gas piston conversions and they have been extremely satisfied thus far. In fact, there was a successful group buy just a while ago.

They have a forum in the industry section; I suggest you check it out.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 7:15:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By YELLOWV:
I believe both Leitner wise and POF are going to be excellent quality. Or you could go H&K if you feel like dumping well over 2 grand on an upper alone.



True this, but that upper has everything going for it. Awsome quad rails, very high quality, and it stays clean as a wistle. You get what you pay for. ($2k is too much though I admit)
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 7:18:01 PM EDT
I never said the H&K upper was bad. Like you said it is the sweetest thing since Jessica Simpson's ass in that Dukes of Hazzard video but is it worth $2300? Not to me. I would rather build 3 badass AR's for that.
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 7:22:35 PM EDT
i just got the DSA AR with the new C.R.O.S, have yet to try it out yet thou. little heavier then a normal AR. but i hope it works good. so POF USA is probably the best
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 7:39:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mrrick:
I am going to get a 5.56 upper or complete system in a 16 inch size.it must have rails.no full auto just semi.chrome bore/chamber.with this in mind who would be the best?POF is where I am leaning to.is there a better choice?I am non mil/leo so this is for fun.lietner is the only other I am aware of.any suggestions are welcomed

thanks
Rick




I've seen hk , lw and pof, and i'll have to say the pof looks the most durable..
Link Posted: 7/31/2005 10:05:35 PM EDT
I've shot the LW. The gas piston will outlast the barrel. It did on one of the mules I shot. The barrel was 50K and worn out. Still ran and ran and ran. Still running in fact. It's nothing if not durable. The companion was 40K+ and did 600 rounds no problems. In fact Matt at LWRC thrashes it regularly.

You want a cantilevered rail? For quite a bit less than $2300, you'll be able to get a factory new L-W upper with the ARM-R rail from Grenadier Precision with a low-pro gas block. Unless of course Paul has jacked the prices. The GP rails are sweet and line up perfectly with the upper receiver rail. www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=171&t=147817] pic of rail]

Simon
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 7:44:35 AM EDT
seems LW and POF is a toss up.now I am hosed!seriuosly thanks,thats what I wanted to hear.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 8:59:53 AM EDT
Have the POF, It's awesome.... Nuff said..
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 4:28:47 AM EDT
i have the L-W gas/piston conversion on my 6721

IT IS BEYOND AWSOME !!
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 4:44:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Buttplate:
i have the L-W gas/piston conversion on my 6721

IT IS BEYOND AWSOME !!




You mean the Colt isn't perfect as is?
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 4:49:00 AM EDT
well, being as you put it in those terms NO..!!

there is always room for improvement in any system.., at least, that is my theory !!
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:18:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:46:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 11:37:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Buttplate is apparently an investor in lw, for whatever that's worth. I HAPPEN TO THINK IT IS WORTH A LOT...!! WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ??
Rick-Why do you want a piston upper? Just for the gee whiz bang factor? Gas uppers have been working fine for decades. I know people with 10,000 plus rounds through their regular uppers without cleaning them.

Anyway I think Oly might have some kind of gas piston upper also. I don't know much about it, but they had an AR during the ban that had a stock that screwed off, though I don't know for sure what it's operation was or even if it's still manufactured.

I think ZM's upper is something like that also.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 11:39:06 AM EDT
any way what kind of weird contraption is a ZM ???????
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 4:10:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Buttplate:
any way what kind of weird contraption is a ZM ???????



i still want to know what a ZM is..., any one know ??
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 4:14:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Buttplate:

Originally Posted By Buttplate:
any way what kind of weird contraption is a ZM ???????



i still want to know what a ZM is..., any one know ??



www.yhm.net/store/lr.html--hope this helps
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 4:22:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 4:23:17 AM EDT by gopeterson]

Originally Posted By Buttplate:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Buttplate is apparently an investor in lw, for whatever that's worth. I HAPPEN TO THINK IT IS WORTH A LOT...!! WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ??
Rick-Why do you want a piston upper? Just for the gee whiz bang factor? Gas uppers have been working fine for decades. I know people with 10,000 plus rounds through their regular uppers without cleaning them.

Anyway I think Oly might have some kind of gas piston upper also. I don't know much about it, but they had an AR during the ban that had a stock that screwed off, though I don't know for sure what it's operation was or even if it's still manufactured.

I think ZM's upper is something like that also.




It seems to me that if you are going to be chiming in with your opinion you ought to disclose your interest in the company.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 7:12:48 AM EDT
I agree. Though Buttplate did anounce in a prior thread his involvment with us, so dont come down on him too hard. He's not trying to fool anyone.

mrrick, if you have any specific questions about anything, ask them.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 7:56:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LWRC_Matt:
I agree. Though Buttplate did anounce in a prior thread his involvment with us, so dont come down on him too hard. He's not trying to fool anyone.

mrrick, if you have any specific questions about anything, ask them.



he may not being fooling anyone but hes really obnoxious about it. LW should put him on a leash.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 8:11:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 8:18:40 AM EDT by Variablebinary]

Originally Posted By gplg:

Originally Posted By LWRC_Matt:
I agree. Though Buttplate did anounce in a prior thread his involvment with us, so dont come down on him too hard. He's not trying to fool anyone.

mrrick, if you have any specific questions about anything, ask them.



he may not being fooling anyone but hes really obnoxious about it. LW should put him on a leash.



+1

And I think it's too soon to know which piston system is the most durable and reliable because they are all pretty new. Give it a year or so and then wait till the dust settles. It's also fairly difficult to get neutral, 100% independent comparisons, especially when it comes to LW. Not to say one is better than the other, but an unbiased opinion would be appreciated and for right now I dont think anyone has enough experiance with all three systems to do that

I'm interested in all three to be honest. If HK, LW, and POF were all in front of me, I'd go POF. If it was LW matched with an LW MRS, I'd get the LW (Very impressive if it works as advertised).

I have to say though, POF manages to have high WOW factor in their pics



I thought this LW product pic was nice as well. So many options and so little money
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 8:22:02 AM EDT
POF
HK is nice too but expensive.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 8:49:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LWRC_Matt:
I agree. Though Buttplate did anounce in a prior thread his involvment with us, so dont come down on him too hard. He's not trying to fool anyone.

mrrick, if you have any specific questions about anything, ask them.



I did not think he was trying to fool anyone -- just that his ownership interest ought to be disclosed. Please also let me clarify, that LW may make the best product out so I'm not suggesting that Buttplate is incorrect in his enthusiasm for the product.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:04:22 PM EDT
For what it is worth, he invested after receiving his conversions. I don't know if that makes a difference. I don't think he had any intention prior.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:12:10 PM EDT
To answer your question, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the above mentioned weapons.

This is (IMO) the best time to be an AR guy. So much stuff, so many choices, and most of them good. The thing about piston operation is, either it works or it doesn't. All three of these offer advantage (IMHO) over a standard AR.

You guys made the industry set the bar high. I remember a day where you bought the rifle and had a few choices of accessories other than what the manufacturer or the surplus store offered. Now, we have better kit available to us than the higest budget organizations.

The power of this forum is unbelievable. The service, the mirad of products are because as a group you guys have power.

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:32:05 PM EDT
well I dont have any specific questions.I see how the system works and the 2 companys LW and POF are doing the same thing 2 different ways.I like the benefits and see a coming change. the AR has evolved over the years and this could be another one for a permanant change.the AR used to have many problems that have been engineered out.I was wondering now that I am on this again what about more / less parts.as in more parts to break.is that possibly an issue?or is this too early in the design?I have not seen much of lw system though I would like to and POF looks to be a system of few parts BASICALLY a piston and a sleeve.is the LW the same or is it also incorporating a spring in this assembly?I was thinking of these parts durability and longevity.that is what I am looking for.I think this is the way to go but will the piston assembly have a life like a match barrel or will it out live me?like how I contradicted myself saying I dont have specific questions.damn this addiction!
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:36:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 5:39:35 PM EDT by model927]
My Buddy Roy has the L&W conversion.Its great I love it myself.48th highlander helped alot with the conversion he got and refinished his upper and barrel and installed a phantom on L&Ws dime.How ever based on my buddies experience unless grenadier precision starts doing conversions Im going to pass on dealing with L&W based on my buddies customer experience with them.I think when you pay that much for a service to be done at least you could get a friendly attitude with it.I wish highlander were doing conversions Id have all my carbines done for sure.In any event my buddies conversion has gone so far 2000 rounds without all the muck in the upper associated with direct gas.It definately runs cleaner than any AR I have seen or used including my own.The best thing about my buddies conversion was the service he received from grenadier precision...top notch company and if they ever start doing conversions Ill be first in line....927.Id let my buddy chime in but he uses my computer enough as it isThe system so far seems to be very durable and well made.I hope eventually it becomes simpler to be able to just drop in..that would be a big advantage and cost saver for us civies as well as the military.We shot 400 rounds straight until the barrel was smoking and hot but the carrier and upper never got warm at all.And with no gas going in the carrier its less pressure and less wear and tear on the parts.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:44:01 PM EDT
I did a bit MORE looking and found the assembly.tough job searching the industry section!ha.anyway does the spring seem like it would last the cycling or does it work like any pistol slide guide?
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:46:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 5:52:36 PM EDT by C4iGrant]
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:49:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 5:59:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 6:49:20 PM EDT
These are great times to be an AR enthusiast! We really have unlimited options on how to configure these weapons.
I have the POF upper ( to those who do not know that already) and I love everything about it!!! Trust me.. You will not go wrong getting this upper. Top notch!
That being said, I doubt that you could go wrong with the LW or the HK either. All are very simple yet effective designs. To me, the AR platform is the best design in the world with only one think lacking. Reliability! Yes it is pretty good in that department nowadays because of good springs better manufacturing, upraded extractors, etc...... but its still not on par with an AK ( And I do not like AK's. Other than being reliable, they are shit.). Using a good gas piston only compliments the AR15. This ,I believe is the completion of this design.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 11:54:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Rick-Why do you want a piston upper? Just for the gee whiz bang factor? Gas uppers have been working fine for decades. I know people with 10,000 plus rounds through their regular uppers without cleaning them.




+1
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 2:49:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Buttplate is apparently an investor in lw, for whatever that's worth.



whats that worth?

To me, it means he has put his own hard earned money behind something he seriously believes in.

It should not water down his credibility, but strengthen it.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:03:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By redfisher:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Buttplate is apparently an investor in lw, for whatever that's worth.



whats that worth?

To me, it means he has put his own hard earned money behind something he seriously believes in.

It should not water down his credibility, but strengthen it.



+1 People are reading this the wrong way.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:16:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gopeterson:
[It seems to me that if you are going to be chiming in with your opinion you ought to disclose your interest in the company.



i already have there ol boy !! do a search & you will become educated !!
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:18:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gplg:


he may not being fooling anyone but hes really obnoxious about it. LW should put him on a leash.



am i as obnoxious as you ????????
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:18:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By redfisher:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Buttplate is apparently an investor in lw, for whatever that's worth.



whats that worth?

To me, it means he has put his own hard earned money behind something he seriously believes in.

It should not water down his credibility, but strengthen it.



It shouldn't water it down but on the other hand it shouldn't neccessarily strengthin it either. Those who are invested in companies typically have a very narrow-minded view of all other like products. That narrw-minded view can sometimes blind one to either the advantages of other products or, better products altogether.

Best thing to do is to rely more upon the responses from non-invested product owners and take the advice of those with close ties to any particular company witha grain of salt and a gallon of water.



P.S. I'm not saying there is anything wrong ith LW's products or ANYONES for that matter, I was just addressing redfishers statement.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:24:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Buttplate:

Originally Posted By gplg:


he may not being fooling anyone but hes really obnoxious about it. LW should put him on a leash.



am i as obnoxious as you ????????



You like LW products and from what I've read they are EXTREMELY good. Similarly POF products have gotten almost equally good reviews and HK has another top quality piston system (albeit WAY overpriced.).

Your problem isn't that you are proud of LW merchandice, your problem is that you come off as very arrogant when you preach about them.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:24:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Variablebinary:


I have to say though, POF manages to have high WOW factor in their pics


but that is about all they have, back around Feb. this year i asked POF for reduced priced upper & to send me one for testing, i also asked Leitner-Wise Rifle Co. the same........

guess which one produced results ?????????????????????????????????????????????­

LEITNER-WISE RIFLE Co.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:26:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gopeterson:

I did not think he was trying to fool anyone -- just that his ownership interest ought to be disclosed. Please also let me clarify, that LW may make the best product out so I'm not suggesting that Buttplate is incorrect in his enthusiasm for the product.



SO WHAT ARE YOU SUGGESTING ??
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:27:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Buttplate:
Originally Posted By Variablebinary:


I have to say though, POF manages to have high WOW factor in their pics


but that is about all they have, back around Feb. this year i asked POF for reduced priced upper & to send me one for testing, i also asked Leitner-Wise Rifle Co. the same........

guess which one produced results ?????????????????????????????????????????????­

LEITNER-WISE RIFLE Co.



Dude you troll EVERY POF thread preaching about the LW piston upper, it's incredibly rude! You then expect POF to send you ANYTHING for what would have obviously been biased testing?
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:33:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By model927:
I hope eventually it becomes simpler to be able to just drop in..that would be a big advantage and cost saver for us civies



"drop in" ??????? do you have any idea what is involved in converting a gas operated upper to the piston operated ??

i can just see it now, every shade tree gunsmith will try this & F&*K up more uppers than Colt or Bushmaster can produce !!!!
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:35:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Buttplate:

Originally Posted By gopeterson:

I did not think he was trying to fool anyone -- just that his ownership interest ought to be disclosed. Please also let me clarify, that LW may make the best product out so I'm not suggesting that Buttplate is incorrect in his enthusiasm for the product.



SO WHAT ARE YOU SUGGESTING ??



This:

Originally Posted By gopeterson:


I did not think he was trying to fool anyone -- just that his ownership interest ought to be disclosed. Please also let me clarify, that LW may make the best product out so I'm not suggesting that Buttplate is incorrect in his enthusiasm for the product.



= You may be right about LW, however I (and most here myself included) would like to know just what your affiliation with LW is (i.e Just how far in bed with them are you?).
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:39:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Very interesting....


C4



exactly what is so interesting ?? you don't have any investments ?????? i would much prefer to invest in a gun company than GM, Ford or IBM !!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:41:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Agree! I think we have enough manufacturers, investors and company salesman with fake/false screen names on here to choke a horse! C4



and dealers too !!!
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:46:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By redfisher:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Buttplate is apparently an investor in lw, for whatever that's worth.



whats that worth?

To me, it means he has put his own hard earned money behind something he seriously believes in.

It should not water down his credibility, but strengthen it.



you have to understand here my friend, there is a whole lot of jealousy behind the "what's that worth" comments.., those who have made those comments & the ones who repeat them most likely had to finance their first AR-15 !!
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:50:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 4:51:33 AM EDT by -M60_Gunner-]

Originally Posted By Buttplate:

Originally Posted By redfisher:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Buttplate is apparently an investor in lw, for whatever that's worth.



whats that worth?

To me, it means he has put his own hard earned money behind something he seriously believes in.

It should not water down his credibility, but strengthen it.



you have to understand here my friend, there is a whole lot of jealousy behind the "what's that worth" comments.., those who have made those comments & the ones who repeat them most likely had to finance their first AR-15 !!



Nevermind.
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