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Posted: 11/30/2007 12:35:50 PM EDT
Okay everyone, here is a question. I just machined a 0% forging and built my first 6.8SPC. I love it, but the upper is a 20" M1S. Great for long range paper and coyote plinking, but not so great in tight areas (home defense). I am thinking I would like to build a Pistol upper and put together an AR pistol. I live in Illinois, so the SBR route is a no go. Can I build a pistol upper and use it on my home machined lower??? Also, would the stock be the only thing that I would have to change (leave off - replace with pistol tube) to make it leagally be a pistol?? Or, would the flash hider have to come off too??? Lastly, do I need to mark the lower in any certain fashion or register the thing?? I mean without the buttstock, it should be like owning any other pistol...right??? Or am I just totally confused? I would hate to slap a pistol upper on my lower, remove the stock and then end up getting in hot water. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in Advance!

Dan
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 1:54:59 PM EDT
since you made it a rifle first it will always be a rifle ( or if your picky it could go class 3)

you need a virgin receiver that has not had a stock then consult your local and state laws.

If your laws are ok then build it into whatever configuration you wish with out a butt stock or the ability to easily accept a butt stock.
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 2:01:09 PM EDT
Its a home machined lower...it has no serial numbers. So just because I fit an upper to it, now it is a "rifle" lower?? I could understand, if this was a lower from a manufacturer that had been registered as a rifle with its serial #. So what you are saying is machine another lower to use with the pistol upper? Okay, now I have two unmarked lower receivers. I disassemble them, and now, I can't tell which was which....not trying to be an ass, but do you see where I am going?? If they are unmarked, who knows what they were originally intended for...that is part of my question...do I need to mark them in a special manner if the lowers will become pistols?

Thanks!
Dan
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 3:52:29 PM EDT
I dont know your state laws, but in most you can build your own pistol out of a 0% lower, and it does not have to be marked as pistol.

The law states, that it has to be assembled as a pistol first, then you can go from pistol to rifle and back, but if it is assembled/registered as a rifle, it can not be a pistol.

So you have a home built and unmarked lower, how are they going to prove you made it into a rifle first? If you have an A2 stye stock, I am pretty sure you put the receiver extension on first, then the stock body right. That means, that the lower was in pistol form first since the receiver extension can be on a pistol without the stock body.

If you did assemble it as a rifle first, and now want it to be a pistol, with an unmarked/unregistered lower, who is going to know? Who is going to tell?
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 7:26:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By coyotesilencer:
-snip-

So you have a home built and unmarked lower, how are they going to prove you made it into a rifle first? If you have an A2 stye stock, I am pretty sure you put the receiver extension on first, then the stock body right. That means, that the lower was in pistol form first since the receiver extension can be on a pistol without the stock body.

If you did assemble it as a rifle first, and now want it to be a pistol, with an unmarked/unregistered lower, who is going to know? Who is going to tell?


The part in Red is the part were a they get you as you had the parts to assmble the stock, now if you were to only have the buffer tube and assymble as a pistol then you are in the clear as there is no way with the parts you have on hand that it could be assmbled into an illegal configuration (ie- SBR)

as for the unmarked receiver, you are the manufacter and there for have the responibility to be able to identify one reciver from the other. ( you may not need to mark them at all according to law but if it says pistol on all of your home made recivers then that is what they were made as. But you may have a limit as to the # of pistols you can make (by law) in a given time frame, I can't be sure as I have never looked into it that hard)
Link Posted: 11/30/2007 8:23:15 PM EDT
The term"manufacturer" according to "The Gun Control Act Of 1968" Title 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 Definitions is: any person engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition for purposes of sale or distribution. I have also read that this applies to part time businesses. Business meaning something you are trying to make some money from. I have seen nowhere any reference to how many you are allowed
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 1:01:44 PM EDT
so your allowed by federal law to machine your own lower and not register it?
Link Posted: 12/1/2007 1:17:52 PM EDT
Exactly.
That's the cool part. Well, plus, getting an incredibly intimate knowledge of your rifles inner workings.

Link Posted: 12/1/2007 1:33:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shrikefan:
snip


true that there is no sale, so not technically a "manufacturer"; but if there is a need to distiguish between to diffrent receivers that are identical visually, then it falls on the owner of the receivers to be able to do that.

BUt the proble there in lies with the differention between a reciever that is marked in no way but can be built as a handgun or rifle. now if there is no state or local laws against the receiver as a handgun then always mark it/ identify it as such ( ingrave or just always refer to it as a handgun originally) but if you have a rifle kit/build and no buffer parts to legaly construct the receiver as a legal pistol then how can you say that the receiver is a pistol receiver since there is no documentation that it was ever a pistol before it was a rifle.

It all sounds like double talk but it boils down to this:

Allways have a buffer tube that can not accept a butt stock that you own (a pistol tube )

Allways build a reveiver into a pistol first and always refer to it as a pistol receiver

Never instal a butt stocked receiver and a <16" upper together with out it being registered properly
Link Posted: 12/2/2007 4:23:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By snowmonkey:
so your allowed by federal law to machine your own lower and not register it?


Correct. unless state law requires it to be registered, Like cali for instance...
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