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Posted: 4/23/2013 8:45:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2013 8:45:53 PM EDT by headmonkey]
I've had a minor setback on some lower builds. Admittedly, I'm a noob, and I dont have the magic touch
apparently required to get the bolt catch pin in.

I read the howto, I saw the punch / hammer method and the pliers method. I tried both, and stopped when
the pin deformed and it looked as if I was going to ruin the bosses. Luckily, I didn't.

The LPKs I'm using are DPMS and they come with the C style pins, which according to wikipedia are called
"slotted spring pins." Very soft material, as they are obviously supposed to deform somewhat, but they suck,
or at least, they suck just enough to not make up for the fact that I suck.

I looked at all the special punches available from Brownells and the like, but didn't think I'd fair any better
with the pins that I have, so does anyone know know where to get the good coiled style pins ?

Coiled Style Pins <-- wikipedia diagram for reference.




Link Posted: 4/23/2013 8:58:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2013 9:01:01 PM EDT by AR-4C]
The Citizens Armory. http://www.thecitizensarmory.com/Lower_c_13-2-0.html

Place a shop towel over the receiver, and insert the roll pin from the rear of the receiver. Use a jewelers hammer and the correct size punch (can't remember off the top of my head) Hold the pin with some tweezers, or small needle nose pliers, and gently tap the pin into open ear. Also, oiling the pin will help with the install, to lessen the friction of metal on metal. After the pin is started, but not blocking the opening between the ears. Insert all the necessary parts, then gently tap the roll pin through the bolt catch. Keep an eye on the hole in the bolt catch to make sure it's lining up with the roll pin. BTW: the brass side of the jewelers hammers works better.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 9:05:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR-4C:
The Citizens Armory. http://www.thecitizensarmory.com/Lower_c_13-2-0.html

Place a shop towel over the receiver, and insert the roll pin from the rear of the receiver. Use a jewelers hammer and the correct size punch (can't remember off the top of my head) Hold the pin with some tweezers, or small needle nose pliers, and gently tap the pin into open ear. Also, oiling the pin will help with the install, to lessen the friction of metal on metal. After the pin is started, but not blocking the opening between the ears. Insert all the necessary parts, then gently tap the roll pin through the bolt catch. Keep an eye on the hole in the bolt catch to make sure it's lining up with the roll pin. BTW: the brass side of the jewelers hammers works better.


The picture in the link you provided at the citizens armoy looks like a standard C pin.

As for installation, I've started making a custom tool, as well as, a "roll pin holder" which I already made out of some hardened steel rod soldered inside
of some square brass tubing. I'm taking pics at each step, so if it all works according to plan, I'll have a long howto with pictures to make a tool that
simplifies the task.

So, do you know for sure citizens armory has "coiled" pins, or are they C pins, or should I call them and ask ?
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 9:06:56 PM EDT
You are probably deforming them because you aren't keeping the holes lined up.  Most LPKs come with an extra pivot/takedown pins detent pin.  Press the bolt catch into place and slide the detent pin into the hole to keep things lined up.  The spring pressure keeps the detent pin in place while you get the roll pin started, and as the roll pin goes deeper, it begins to push the detent pin out of the way.  No oil, no special tools, no more cookies and bullshit.

Another possibility is that those holes in your lowers are out of spec.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 9:13:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2013 9:16:28 PM EDT by AR-4C]
A standard pin will do the job as long as you oil the pin. If you want to go with a coiled pin; http://www.mcmaster.com Though you'll have to buy the min quantity through them. They don't list shipping when placing order, but it'll be cheap. I ordered from them, and the facility in Atlanta serves me if they have the stuff I need. The shipping is usually $6 to Northwest Florida.

You'll have to measure the factory pin to make sure you get the right size. The cad blueprints will be listed with the coiled pins on McMaster Carr's site. Though you take a chance of the pin may or may not fitting. Unless, you can find someone that's already used a coiled pin, and lists the correct size.

BTW: using an extra punch inserted from the front side can keep everything aligned while tapping the pin through from the opposite side.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 9:18:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR-4C:
A standard pin will do the job as long as you oil the pin. If you want to go with a coiled pin; http://www.mcmaster.com Though you'll have to buy the min quantity through them. They don't list shipping when placing order, but it'll be cheap. I ordered from them, and the facility in Atlanta serves me if they have the stuff I need. The shipping is usually $6 to Northwest Florida.

You'll have to measure the factory pin to make sure you get the right size. The cad blueprints will be listed with the coiled pins on McMaster Carr's site. Though you take a chance of the pin may or may not fitting. Unless, you can find someone that's already used a coiled pin, and lists the correct size.

BTW: using an extra punch inserted from the front side can keep everything aligned while tapping the pin through from the opposite side.


Thanks for the McMaster link. Although ordering 50 of them isn't ideal, its better than none at all.

Muchos gracias
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 9:33:40 PM EDT
Look at it like this! You'll have 49 attempts, and one more chance at getting it right!! *j/k
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 9:36:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR-4C:
Look at it like this! You'll have 49 attempts, and one more chance at getting it right!! *j/k


Wait until you see the "special tool" i hacked together from shit I found at Lowes today.

It's good for a major "omfg talk about over complicating a simple task" facepalm.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 9:52:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
Wait until you see the "special tool" i hacked together from shit I found at Lowes today.

Or just put grease on the pin and squeeze it in with pliers.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 9:54:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
Wait until you see the "special tool" i hacked together from shit I found at Lowes today.

Or just put grease on the pin and squeeze it in with pliers.


Winner.

This is so simple.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 10:19:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Alaska511:
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
Wait until you see the "special tool" i hacked together from shit I found at Lowes today.

Or just put grease on the pin and squeeze it in with pliers.


Winner.

This is so simple.


Yeah, it looked simple enough in the how to, until it started going all wrong in the real world.

In any case, for $50 from McMaster-Carr I ordered 50 coiled bolt catch pins, 50 coiled trigger guard pins,
and enough stainless tubing and hardened pins to make several sets of "roll pin holder punches."

I've got 3 of these things to assemble now, and I'm sure there will be more later, so if I can engineer
a monkey proof method, all the better. The pliers just didn't work for me, and now I'm all risk averse
to try it again.

Thanks for the help all.

Link Posted: 4/24/2013 2:15:11 AM EDT
I read here somewhere a good hint to try freezing the pin before trying to insert it. I have only installed the pin once and it went smoothly,  but freezing the pin makes sense and worth trying.
Link Posted: 4/24/2013 3:36:02 AM EDT
i have the brownells bolt catch punch pin...ill squeeze in one side of the pin slightly, tap it in line up my bolt catch spring and detent and have it held in by a punch then ill use my bolt catch punch to punch it threw

i've always went in the mag side also. never had any issues.

eletrical tape to cover up  your lower may help as well.
Link Posted: 4/24/2013 4:48:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cmfarmer53:
i have the brownells bolt catch punch pin...ill squeeze in one side of the pin slightly, tap it in line up my bolt catch spring and detent and have it held in by a punch then ill use my bolt catch punch to punch it threw

i've always went in the mag side also. never had any issues.

eletrical tape to cover up  your lower may help as well.


Cover your lower with blue masking tape, then duct tape for an extra measure of protection if you like.


Link Posted: 4/24/2013 5:30:40 AM EDT
Did the 2 pins types look like this?




Vs the nice McMaster purchased Spring Roll Pins below?




Link Posted: 4/24/2013 8:52:05 AM EDT
Too bad you bought the spiral roll pins. I had some extras that I could have parted with,
Mine are the US made Spirol brand pins in carbon steel with a black phosphate finish.
I have complete sets of forward assist, gas block, bolt catch assembly, and trigger guard pins.
They are rated for standard duty.

The last time I checked with McMaster-Carr, they could not guaranteed  the manufacture or the country of origin.
To be safe I chose the good old USA brand.
Link Posted: 4/24/2013 9:39:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By gomlin:
I read here somewhere a good hint to try freezing the pin before trying to insert it. I have only installed the pin once and it went smoothly,  but freezing the pin makes sense and worth trying.


Good idea. The lower temp should help it resist deformation.


Link Posted: 4/24/2013 10:10:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By patrick0525:
Too bad you bought the spiral roll pins. I had some extras that I could have parted with,
Mine are the US made Spirol brand pins in carbon steel with a black phosphate finish.
I have complete sets of forward assist, gas block, bolt catch assembly, and trigger guard pins.
They are rated for standard duty.

The last time I checked with McMaster-Carr, they could not guaranteed  the manufacture or the country of origin.
To be safe I chose the good old USA brand.


Thanks for the tip on Spirol. Bookmarked for next time.
Link Posted: 4/24/2013 10:41:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2013 10:41:46 AM EDT by 123gt]

In any case, for $50 from McMaster-Carr I ordered 50 coiled bolt catch pins, 50 coiled trigger guard pins,
and enough stainless tubing and hardened pins to make several sets of "roll pin holder punches."

I've got 3 of these things to assemble now, and I'm sure there will be more later, so if I can engineer
a monkey proof method, all the better. The pliers just didn't work for me, and now I'm all risk averse
to try it again.

Thanks for the help all.



Want to sell a pair of each? I would like to use the swag deluxe coiled pins when I assemble my lower.
Link Posted: 4/24/2013 10:43:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2013 11:06:13 AM EDT by headmonkey]
Originally Posted By 123gt:

In any case, for $50 from McMaster-Carr I ordered 50 coiled bolt catch pins, 50 coiled trigger guard pins,
and enough stainless tubing and hardened pins to make several sets of "roll pin holder punches."

I've got 3 of these things to assemble now, and I'm sure there will be more later, so if I can engineer
a monkey proof method, all the better. The pliers just didn't work for me, and now I'm all risk averse
to try it again.

Thanks for the help all.



Want to sell a pair of each? I would like to use the swag deluxe coiled pins when I assemble my lower.


Certainly. As soon as they get here, and I verify they are the right size and work as intended, I had
planned to offer the extras to everyone to enjoy.

I'll start a list with your nick in the #1 slot.

Not looking to profit, just looking to help, in case I'm accidentally violating any rules.

Anyone else, message me ( 2 people already have ) w/ qty.

Will share them at whatever they cost me.

Note ... the ones I ordered are stainless, not black, in case that matters to you.


Link Posted: 4/24/2013 4:03:03 PM EDT
Are you sure the hole is the correct size? I would buy a 3/32" reamer and run it through the holes and then attempt the pin installation. I just built 3 lowers and used 2 Stag LPKs and a DPMS LPK and all 3 roll pins just pressed in with pliers and I finished them with a couple of punch/hammer hits.
Link Posted: 4/24/2013 6:49:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2013 6:50:13 PM EDT by headmonkey]
Originally Posted By edgephoto:
Are you sure the hole is the correct size? I would buy a 3/32" reamer and run it through the holes and then attempt the pin installation. I just built 3 lowers and used 2 Stag LPKs and a DPMS LPK and all 3 roll pins just pressed in with pliers and I finished them with a couple of punch/hammer hits.


I am certain the hole is smaller than .110" and larger than .090" as it wont accept some .110" rod I have, but it will accept
a .090" drill bit I have.

As far as exact dimensions and reaming it, I plan to do that with the parts that I ordered, as the holes are impossible to reach with
any of the tools I have, hence the reason I ordered some extra length of shaft, so that I can attach a drill bit / reamer to the shaft
and reach the holes with ease. Will check this before attempting pin installation.
Link Posted: 4/24/2013 8:42:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cmfarmer53:
i have the brownells bolt catch punch pin...ill squeeze in one side of the pin slightly, tap it in line up my bolt catch spring and detent and have it held in by a punch then ill use my bolt catch punch to punch it threw

i've always went in the mag side also. never had any issues.

eletrical tape to cover up  your lower may help as well.


Re the Brownells Bolt Catch Pin Punch

Which one exactly do you have, and does it have a recessed area that holds / squeezes the pin, or is it just flat ?
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 4:15:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
Originally Posted By cmfarmer53:
i have the brownells bolt catch punch pin...ill squeeze in one side of the pin slightly, tap it in line up my bolt catch spring and detent and have it held in by a punch then ill use my bolt catch punch to punch it threw

i've always went in the mag side also. never had any issues.

eletrical tape to cover up  your lower may help as well.


Re the Brownells Bolt Catch Pin Punch

Which one exactly do you have, and does it have a recessed area that holds / squeezes the pin, or is it just flat ?


this

it says for removal but i use it for installing
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 5:22:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2013 5:23:28 AM EDT by headmonkey]
Originally Posted By cmfarmer53:
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
Originally Posted By cmfarmer53:
i have the brownells bolt catch punch pin...ill squeeze in one side of the pin slightly, tap it in line up my bolt catch spring and detent and have it held in by a punch then ill use my bolt catch punch to punch it threw

i've always went in the mag side also. never had any issues.

eletrical tape to cover up  your lower may help as well.


Re the Brownells Bolt Catch Pin Punch

Which one exactly do you have, and does it have a recessed area that holds / squeezes the pin, or is it just flat ?


this

it says for removal but i use it for installing


So ... the end is flat then ? The strike face that contacts the pin is flat ?

The picture doesn't show the business end, just the "look we ground the side flat" part.

Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:11:04 AM EDT
Ok,

I've installed hundreds of these literally...

95% of the time...Rollpin punch and small hammer...

I've yet to need to replace one from issues installing it...

I've had a couple tight ones...but not bad enought to flatten the pin...

I've see them come in that way...usually there is a nice circle in the bolt catch or trigger guard explaining the reason...

I have c and coil pins...I have never had either one fail...

Bit, I also don't reuse them...if they are removed for whatever reason they get a new one...thier cheap...

And yes just like the set screw trigger mod...order 50 each...give them out like door prizes...

In fact, if you order the standard parts you'll have a decent order...

I use msc but mcmaster is fine too...for online...

I also have a fastenal rep that stops by every weekor two...

They keep my shop supplies in stock...
Bret

Bret
Link Posted: 4/25/2013 8:50:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
Originally Posted By cmfarmer53:
Originally Posted By headmonkey:
Originally Posted By cmfarmer53:
i have the brownells bolt catch punch pin...ill squeeze in one side of the pin slightly, tap it in line up my bolt catch spring and detent and have it held in by a punch then ill use my bolt catch punch to punch it threw

i've always went in the mag side also. never had any issues.

eletrical tape to cover up  your lower may help as well.


Re the Brownells Bolt Catch Pin Punch

Which one exactly do you have, and does it have a recessed area that holds / squeezes the pin, or is it just flat ?


this

it says for removal but i use it for installing


So ... the end is flat then ? The strike face that contacts the pin is flat ?

The picture doesn't show the business end, just the "look we ground the side flat" part.



it has a nipple in the middle of the pin so that it centers into the roll pin properly
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