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Posted: 10/20/2004 12:50:35 PM EDT
Im looking for pics of your targets and what you shot them with.

i am going out to the range and bringing some 1.5in steel plates and other steel plates, up to 3 inchs thick. I wanna get an idea of what ammo you guys have had success with.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 2:12:18 PM EDT
What do you mean by "success"? Penetration?

If so M193 has the deepest penetration on hard targets (mild steel through armor). Velocity is king when looking at penetration on a target harder than the projectile.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:02:01 PM EDT
Here's a pic of the front and back side of a 1 1/4 inch steel plate, not exactly mild steel but it isn't hardened to armour grade either.

The back side shows what a 300WinMag can do with the 163grn AP bullets from old surplus 30-06 M2AP ammo, the heads poking out in the pics were the 2nd load over starting and my final loads now put a hole through the plate from 80 yards away.

The little craters in this plate on the front side are from 5.56x45mm, they are about 3/16 deep by 3/16 deep. The bigger craters are from 190grn SMKs at 2900fps and measure about 3/4 of an inch thick by 1/2 inch deep. The AP loads made a much smaller crater but penetrated much more deeply,
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:16:52 PM EDT
Those are good pics. I wan't to make up some loads like that for my .300 with pulled M2 bullets. Do you know how many grains of powder you used?
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:21:04 PM EDT
I used IMR 4138 while working up to a load just under max.

Definitely start low though, the 163grn bullets have more bearing surface that comes into contact with the rifling than that of a 180grn Sierra Match King.

here's a picture of the 163, an old 168grn Amax, and a 180grn Sierra Match King for comparisons in overall length and bearing surface. It's likely that the 163grn AP bullet raises pressures with lighter loads than you'd see with an ordinary 165-168grn bullet.

It would be fun to use a 300RUM to propel these 163s, the RUM could probably spank the things to 3400-3500fps which is a good 200fps faster than the 3200 that I figure I am getting currently.

Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:23:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 7:31:10 PM EDT by M1-Matt]

Here is a Birchwood Casey 44mag handgun spinner 3/8". I was using WIN M855 out of my 14.5" BM M4 this was shot at 180-190yds. If I was shooting @ 100yds with my 20" it may have penetrated. I have shot at it some more since I took the photos. I did have one penetration @ 200yds with my BM M4 a round went through a previous hit. I will post some more photos tomorrow.

Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:02:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 8:04:36 PM EDT by azsavage]
A piece of super strong 136 LB carbon-manganese railroad rail - complete pass through. 300 WSM and WWII surplus 163 Gr AP.


Link Posted: 10/20/2004 9:02:13 PM EDT
so what is the thickest steel a .223 55gr FMJ winchester will go thru?

PS great pics, keepem comming.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 10:21:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 10:26:04 PM EDT by dablues]
Couple of millimeters maybe? I pounded away at a railroad spike plate where it was about 3/8 inch thick with some plain old .308 Nato ball ammunition and it just spalled the back side.

It would have gone though eventually hitting it in the same spot.

Those plates in the first post are an inch and a quarter thick. When I see the Nat'l guard units up-armoring their Humvees...I wish they had thicker plate to work with.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 10:32:25 PM EDT
.375 Holland and Holland will sail clear through 1/2 inch mild steel [i[at a 45 degree angle, while 5.56 and 30-06 are stopped dead. They leave dime and nickel sized holes, the .375 left a hole larger than a quarter. All at 101 yards.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 10:54:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SFR:
so what is the thickest steel a .223 55gr FMJ winchester will go thru?

PS great pics, keepem comming.

I had complete penetration with XM193 and a 3/8ths Co2 Fire extingushier (1 side) it dimpled the back side. SHot out of a 20" AR @100 yards

I had the pics posted earlier for Markm, I dont know if he saved them or not
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 12:06:15 PM EDT
Now that the weather is getting nicer I should be able to start reloading again soon.

Summers with 100+ degree heat don't leave me with much desire to go out to the garage and start loading rounds.

I need a new steel plate, the old plate is now so cratered from various different loads that it's hard to see what effect it's having. The plates weigh in at 45 pounds if I remember correct and they are at a hardness some where between the mild steel I'm used to shooting and the few hardened steels I've shot. I also want to get a THICK chunk of aluminum to see what kind of holes I can put through it, something like a 2 inch thick piece of aluminum stock but it's so expensive that I doubt I will wind up doing it.

One of the things I clearly remember not even being able to make a dimple on are some old leaf springs out of a heavy duty truck, the spring leafs were maybe 1/4 inch thick and I had them braced very well. M855 or M193, it didn't matter as neither left much of anything, the steel tip of the SS109 barely made the slightest dimple.

I'd love to get that stuff again and pit my 300WinMag loads against it, from a safe distance hopefully far enough away to survive deflection.

I've put regular M193 through steel up to 1/4 inch thick from around 50 yards away, pretty wimpy stuff. And I just don't have much desire to get M855 for anything when it's so expensive and at closer ranges M193 appears to hold an advantage thanks to it's velocity edge.

Eventually a 50BMG is making it's way into the stockpile, that will be an entirely different ball game. 2-3 inch thick mild steel will probably pose no threat while my guess is that 3/4 inch armour rated plate will be right about it's limit.

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