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Posted: 8/23/2004 3:30:58 PM EST
What's wrong with this pic of our guys "posed for action" as the quote said?

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/legacyvet-yuma/image637733x.jpg">
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 3:32:19 PM EST
lets try this again, i'm an idiot..

Link Posted: 8/23/2004 3:32:44 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 3:33:12 PM EST
I guess the SAW gunner is going for an OEG effect with that lens cover being left closed.....
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 3:41:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 3:41:32 PM EST by BravoCompanyUSA]
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 3:54:22 PM EST
youse guys are too quick...yep that was on CNN.com this morning on the fighting at the shrine. They are supposedly "snipers" in a hotel across the street. that filter must work great if MY Army is using it.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 3:57:11 PM EST
Damn, I wasted 25 bucks on a killflash when I could have used the cover?
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 3:59:08 PM EST
Keeping the outside lense cap closed is a technique that many special operators utllize. Greg Hamilton encourages his student's to try it. You must keep both eyes open, but it can be effective at short distances. You will notice in the Pic, that the soldier has both eyes open.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 3:59:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By uglygun:
I guess the SAW gunner is going for an OEG effect with that lens cover being left closed.....



Glare / reflection from the glass could alert the enemy as to their covert position. Primary reasoning to keep it blocked until you are ready to fire.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 4:02:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 4:03:17 PM EST by zrxc77]
Is that SAW belt fed? I don't see any ammunition for it, but maybe I just don't know what to look for.

ETA - If it has no ammo loaded up, I guess it doesn't really matter which position the lens cap is in.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 4:03:19 PM EST
I say thats one for the professionals.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 4:17:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By uglygun:
I guess the SAW gunner is going for an OEG effect with that lens cover being left closed.....



I have done that. Works pretty good.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 4:21:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By zrxc77:
Is that SAW belt fed? I don't see any ammunition for it, but maybe I just don't know what to look for.

ETA - If it has no ammo loaded up, I guess it doesn't really matter which position the lens cap is in.



Yes. The nylon camo bag right in front of his finger, directly below the chaging handle.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 4:26:28 PM EST
I use to do the same thing when I had a Reflex NSN and the reticule washed out.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 4:30:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 4:31:12 PM EST by zrxc77]

Originally Posted By Halfcocked:

Originally Posted By zrxc77:
Is that SAW belt fed? I don't see any ammunition for it, but maybe I just don't know what to look for.

ETA - If it has no ammo loaded up, I guess it doesn't really matter which position the lens cap is in.



Yes. The nylon camo bag right in front of his finger, directly below the chaging handle.



Thanks. I wasn't sure if that was a bag/can of ammunition or the legs of the soldier behind him.

ETA - I guess the camo did its job on me.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 4:35:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 4:36:54 PM EST by DM1975]
Maybe others do it but I have never seen an M68 on a SAW... And the bullet bag on the SAW is a 100 rnd nuttsack ammobag...
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 4:41:27 PM EST
Where the hell is the barrel of that M4? Or have we adopted Predator camo for our firearms?!?
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 4:43:13 PM EST
Maybe sticking out that big ass hole he has it stuck in next to the window... Just a guess
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 4:46:20 PM EST
Why do you guys think I mentioned OEG in the first place?


Trijicon Reflex owner here.... Well aware of what the polarizing filter does to help isolate the dot yet allow the shooter to still hit the targets.


It was part meant in jest because it could be a posed shot but it could just as well be a legit use of the sight. Though it looks like the shooter on the M4 probably has a good portion of his barrel sticking out through the hole he's trying to fire through, barely even see a front sight base visible in the picture.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 4:46:53 PM EST
I'd imagine it's pretty bright outside. He's probably avoiding washout.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 4:48:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By uglygun:
Why do you guys think I mentioned OEG in the first place?


Trijicon Reflex owner here.... Well aware of what the polarizing filter does to help isolate the dot yet allow the shooter to still hit the targets.


It was part meant in jest because it could be a posed shot but it could just as well be a legit use of the sight. Though it looks like the shooter on the M4 probably has a good portion of his barrel sticking out through the hole he's trying to fire through, barely even see a front sight base visible in the picture.



Thats not a filter on the 68, it is a flip up cover...
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 4:54:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 4:56:31 PM EST by uglygun]

Originally Posted By DM1975:

Originally Posted By uglygun:
Why do you guys think I mentioned OEG in the first place?


Trijicon Reflex owner here.... Well aware of what the polarizing filter does to help isolate the dot yet allow the shooter to still hit the targets.


It was part meant in jest because it could be a posed shot but it could just as well be a legit use of the sight. Though it looks like the shooter on the M4 probably has a good portion of his barrel sticking out through the hole he's trying to fire through, barely even see a front sight base visible in the picture.



Thats not a filter on the 68, it is a flip up cover...




Yeah.... I kinda acknowledged that little factoid in the original comment as well where I clearly mention the words "lens cover". Most would deduce that my 2nd post when taken in context with the first post would mean that shooting an Aimpoint with the lens cap closed is a lot like shooting a Trijicon Reflex with the polarizing filter closed down, hence giving the OEG effect which I also mentioned in the first post. Hmmmm, for those not caught up to speed yet "OEG" refers to "occluded eye gunsight" which is another Trijicon sight...


There, clear enough? Don't let the simple sentences trip you up too badly there...
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 5:07:12 PM EST
I'm following you, uglygun, ever since I looked up OEG from your first post in order to add it to the acronym list. I learn something new here every day.

I assume an OEG is harder to master than a regular red-dot sight. But assuming one is trained to use an OEG, what are its advantages and disadvantages compared to a regular red-dot sight?
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 5:12:06 PM EST
Also, the SAW gunner is firing. See the links?????
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 5:13:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 5:19:38 PM EST by uglygun]
Trijicon recommends practicing to shoot on your first instinct as soon as your brain merges the dot that one eye sees with the image of the target area as the other eye sees it.

The more you concentrate the more difficult it seems to become. I seriously believe that's part of the reason why Trijicon settled on the whole "reflex" name as it is with said line of sights. Once you practice with the sight it's best to concentrate on the target and let your brain do what it is trying to do naturally.

The same effect is going on to a certain degree with other optics such as the Aimpoints and EOTechs but it isn't as taxing on the shooter as it is with a blacked out OEG type effect. The OEG is still useable and with practice can be both fast and accurate but it can definitely cross a person up if you put too much effort into it. If you have a red dot sight try it at the range the next time you are there shooting, might be surprised how many times you can manage to hit the same target even with the lense cap closed.

I bought my Trijicon NSN back around 1998 and have been using it for quite a long time, for out to 200 yards the thing works pretty darn well but the thing can be kinda finiky in certain lighting conditions and that's where the Reflex can act as OEG in some situations because to get a better dot contrast to target image you may have to close down the polarizing filter. There are quite a few threads on this in the optics forum but they may be buried now and in need of using the search feature.



I wound up buying an Aimpoint Comp M for a secondary sight about 2-3 years ago. In some situations I still prefer the Trijicon Reflex while in other situations I like the Aimpoint Comp M.


One downside to the OEG is that I believe there is a bit of parallax error when using an OEG type sight, atleast when I did tests with my Trijicon Reflex by shooting with 3 different styles, using the sight as you would a scope where it was full open and using the primary eye to sight/line the dot on target, using the sight full open while shooting with both eyes open concentrating on the target, and finally shooting with the polarizing filter closed down and shooting in an OEG mode. I noticed a bit of a shift in point of impact from point of aim between the 3 shooting methods.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 5:23:02 PM EST
Thanks uglygun.

I do peruse the optics forum on a regular basis, but this is the first I have seen anything about OEG sights. Well, I take that back, sort of. There was a thread where someone posted a picture of the Trijicion/Armson OEG sight because they were working on a retro-build:



However, there wasn't any discussion of the OEG concept that I recall. At the time I wondered how you looked through that thing, but not enough to ask. Now I know - you don't.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 5:44:04 AM EST
I have 2 "OEG"style sights that were made in England from the Vietnam era. Light gathering only, no internal illumination at all. So the concept has been around for a long time. Both eyes open increases the depth perception & periphrial vision. Red dot's are just the modern version, but wash out is the compromise. I like the Trijicon Reflex. I leave the polarizer on all the time. I have thought about covering the front lense more permanently, but I just haven't decided. I also have some real Armson OEG's that we tried on 5.56 Ar's, but the recoil was too much, & they wouldn't hold zero. They are great on sub caliber guns.

uglygun- I was with you...

Johnny C!
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:02:19 AM EST
The OEG uses fiber optic illumination for day and tritium for night. Works the same as any other red dot sight except no batteries, switches, knobs or glass.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:19:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By uglygun:
Trijicon recommends practicing to shoot on your first instinct as soon as your brain merges the dot that one eye sees with the image of the target area as the other eye sees it.

The more you concentrate the more difficult it seems to become.......

.......One downside to the OEG is that I believe there is a bit of parallax error when using an OEG type sight..........I noticed a bit of a shift in point of impact from point of aim between the 3 shooting methods.



Exactly.....

I had an OEG back in the mid 80's and I experienced the exact same thing. You had to shoot as soon as the dot was on target. If you waited, the dot started to drift around and the POA/POI would not co-incidence. Your zero on Sunday would be no good next Wednesday because of optical variances. It was high-speed back then, but outdated now.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:53:40 AM EST
He's not using the sight....His eyes are below the line of sight and off to the side Just the angle of photo is deceiving
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