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Posted: 8/17/2006 4:58:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2006 12:43:26 PM EDT by Blacksnake]
Ok, gun is a Wilson Combat UT-15, made in 2004 with 5.56 (supposedly) chamber specs. It has been outstanding in the accuracy and reliability departments with all ammo types, including Q3131, Q3131A, XM193, XM855, UMC, AE, and S&B SS109. Started shooting Wolf M193 at the range with it earlier this week, went through 300 rounds with no failures. Brass ejected into a neat pile when I held still. But almost every primer was showing some cratering (about 95% of them) with the Wolf M193. No leakage apparent around any of them, none pierced, none looked like they even came close to blowing out. Same ammo from same case does not do this in my Bushies.

What's the verdict? Since I didn't actually blow a primer and no failures (unless a little cratering is considered a failure), can I keep safely shooting this stuff in my Wilson?

Is the leade/throat a little different than the Bushies???

Is it only a matter of time before I get a blown primer or worse?

Any input you have is most appreciated. I'd post a pic but don't know how.
Link Posted: 8/17/2006 5:00:20 PM EDT
Ammo issue.
Link Posted: 8/17/2006 5:03:29 PM EDT
Well, yes and no. I know there have been problems with the Wolf M193 and something is off with it in this particular gun, but like I said it is great in my other guns and primers look great from the Bushies I have. So there is something different about the Wilson Combat UT-15 and I'm just wondering what it is and if it is safe to go on using the Wolf M193 in the gun???
Link Posted: 8/17/2006 6:26:11 PM EDT
Well, could be a headspace issue, but if only one brand of ammo is doing it that makes the causre pretty clear, at least to me.

I personally would not worry about it too much. I had a similar issue with polymer wolf and mine was actually throwing primers into the lower and causing malf's. Does NOT do it with surplus and hotter ammo, so I've concluded it's the ammo.

Link Posted: 8/18/2006 7:21:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/18/2006 2:56:19 PM EDT
You spend the extra money for the Wilson Combat AR, then run Wolf through it. That just doesn't add up.
Link Posted: 8/18/2006 5:32:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2006 5:32:55 PM EDT by Blacksnake]

Originally Posted By Dano523:
Take a good look at the spent primers,

If the primer edges are not showing signs of overpressure (flatten out to the edges of the primer pocket), chances are the Wolf primer cup material is just a little thinner than the other ammo's used, and if you add in a FP protrusion being at the longer side (.032 to .037 being in spec), a bit of FP strike metal flowing at the dent is not out of the norm.


I think you may have hit the nail on the head. I guess since I ran 300 through it with no signs that one would pop out and no leakage I could detect, if it really was a pressure problem one would have let go. Seems like I remember FALARAK said in the ammo forum when he decapped his they were damaged, looked like they may have been too thin. I think I will keep cooking this stuff off until I am out of it, but maybe mostly in the Bushies.

Thanks for the reply!
Link Posted: 8/18/2006 5:41:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Nliten:
You spend the extra money for the Wilson Combat AR, then run Wolf through it. That just doesn't add up.


I do not run the steel cased stuff through it since it is not chrome lined. I don't see a problem with the brass cased M193 stuff for a couple of reasons:

It doesn't chrono as hot as XM193 so in theory should be easier on the gun, although that was my concern in this post.

The brass is softer than XM193 and Q3131A, so same reasoning as above.

It burns really clean, IMO. The gun was cleaner than it has ever been after 300 rounds of anything else.

I only have a limited supply (a few 1,000 rounds) of XM193 and Q3131A, so it is reserved for when I really need it and not for plinking. Since I can't find any more of it to buy anywhere, for the time being the Wolf M193 is a good option I think. Steel cased Wolf and some Wolf M193 is what I've been running in the Bushies.

The Wilson is an expensive gun, but not a trailer queen. It has been a good ammo whore with everything I have run through it and had good accuracy with most all of it to boot. This is the first time I have seen a little strange behavior out of it. It has never failed, not once. I was just trying to determine if it was reliable with ALL the types of ammo I have, and then I will take it easy on her and run the piss out of the Bushies more.
Link Posted: 8/18/2006 9:11:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2006 9:06:50 AM EDT
You make some good points. Thank you for all your help and the technical way you go about it!
Link Posted: 8/19/2006 1:07:20 PM EDT
Dano,

That was the best explanation that I have seen. I even understood it. Thanks.

Art
Link Posted: 8/19/2006 2:17:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2006 2:27:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Nliten:
You spend the extra money for the Wilson Combat AR, then run Wolf through it. That just doesn't add up.



wtf are you talking about? oh wait let me guess you think all wolf is russian so it's dirty and below par

the ignorant wolf bashing that comes from this forum is really ticking me off, wolf is a importer of ammo that comes from different countries, wolf doesn't make ammo
Link Posted: 8/19/2006 8:23:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 5:05:49 AM EDT
I sent a note to Wilson Combat and they bashed the Wolf too, said they did not test their rifles with any Wolf. They had no idea what to tell me, other than to not use Wolf (but no reasons why my Bushmaster will eat the M193 all day and the primers look funny after coming out of theirs). I even sent them some good pics which I would post here if I could figure out how .

I told them I would happily test it in mine for them!

Link Posted: 8/24/2006 12:42:58 PM EDT
Finally figured out how to post a pic - check this out:




Wolf M193 on the left, Q3131 and UMC on right.
Link Posted: 8/24/2006 5:04:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2006 5:05:07 PM EDT by Dano523]
Link Posted: 8/25/2006 2:27:35 AM EDT
Thanks for all your help Dano - I think the brass is for sure on the soft side since the ejector on the Bushies marks it pretty good too but with no cratering on the primers.

I feel better about it now, anyway. I sent detailed stuff and pics to Wilson and all they could say in two seperate notes is not to shoot the stuff because "Russian ammo is known to be hotter". What a crock of bull$hit!
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