Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 8/10/2005 8:23:30 AM EDT
All the recent discussion of the Noveske/Pac-nor SBR barrels has gotten me to thinking...I had been all set to use a White Oak Precision Krieger service rifle barrel for an upcoming project but now I'm thinking about a Pac-nor service rifle contour with 1:7 polygonal rifling. Thoughts, comments, experiences?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:50:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 9:05:48 AM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 9:09:01 AM EDT
hk has been useing poly Bbls for a looong time in their rifles, glock too, there is a increase of vel because of the tighter seal around the slug, and they're easy to clean, I have a harder time with the land and groove design than the poly to get clean
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 9:26:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 9:28:52 AM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 11:05:58 AM EDT
Bigbore, David Tubb is a big fan of polygonally rifled precision barrels. Last I knew he used only Schneider stainless polygonal barrels in all his rifles, and that's what comes on the TUBB 2000.

There must be something good about them.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 12:20:39 PM EDT
Wow, this is really interesting. Is there a place I can read more about these?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 12:56:57 PM EDT
Bigbore, you raise some very valid points. More data is definitly needed. I've known for awhile that D. Tubb used polygonal barrels but I've never seen him write as to the reason why. I wish there were some folks out there using them on a precision AR. I remain intrigued, but that WOP Krieger is a known quantity for sure.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 12:58:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Huff762:
I've known for awhile that D. Tubb used polygonal barrels but I've never seen him write as to the reason why.



Have you read his second book (Rifle Shooter)? In it he gives some of his rationale for using polygonals. IIRC, he started with them in Silhouette, and carried them over to Highpower.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 1:02:45 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 2:34:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 3:59:49 PM EDT by Grendelizor]
I could be confused about the whole issue, but I think there are two types of "polygonal" barrels.

One type of barrel called "polygonal", from a cross-sectional view, looks like, oh, a stop sign. This would be the Glock barrel. It has no lands and grooves per normal rifling.

The second, from a cross-sectional view, has lands and grooves, but the lands are not square or rectangular shaped, but could be described as trapezoidal, like a pyramid with the top half cut off. That's the way I understand it after Mike Rock tried to explain it to me. If someone here has a better handle on the concept, please enlighten us.

John

P.S. Perhaps to be more precise we could differentiate between polygonal "barrels" and polygonal "rifling."
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 2:41:47 PM EDT
Only way to be sure is to see the barrel or display a cross section.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 2:57:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 8:57:47 AM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 3:24:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Bigbore, David Tubb is a big fan of polygonally rifled precision barrels. Last I knew he used only Schneider stainless polygonal barrels in all his rifles, and that's what comes on the TUBB 2000.




I'm aware of theTubb connection, but I also know 2 local High Masters who had Schneider stainless polygonal barrels OEM on their T2Ks and they were both junk. one shot good for a little bit, and the other shot good short range, but was worthless at 600yds. Both were toast under 2K rounds. They were replaced with traditional rifled barrels.
Another local High Master has a WL poly barrrel on his rattle battle rifle, because as a 24" match rifle barrel it wouldnt shoot very well at all.
I have direct information relating to 3 poly barrels, 2 in 6mm, and 1 in .223. All 3 of these guys are on the SEMNO team, so you may know them.

Dont forget Tubb was a big fan of the SR25 Match rifle too Theres a reason that didnt go very far.



Good point about he SR25. I was not aware of Schneiders having such a failure to live up to expectations. I have a WOA Wilson on hand for when my RRA Wilson finally dies, but my Model 70 wears a Krieger, and I think that's what it will get again.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 3:58:29 PM EDT
Can we get Denny in here to chime in with his experiences?

Justin
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 6:50:30 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:30:57 AM EDT
Tag for reference.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 8:48:14 AM EDT
.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 9:21:24 AM EDT
Tagged.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 9:25:39 AM EDT
Bump. Because I can't tag.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:37:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CitySlicker:
Can we get Denny in here to chime in with his experiences?

Justin




PAGING DENNY! PAGING DENNY!
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 4:30:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 4:38:50 AM EDT by dennysguns]
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 4:44:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Bigbore, David Tubb is a big fan of polygonally rifled precision barrels. Last I knew he used only Schneider stainless polygonal barrels in all his rifles, and that's what comes on the TUBB 2000.




I'm aware of theTubb connection, but I also know 2 local High Masters who had Schneider stainless polygonal barrels OEM on their T2Ks. one shot good for a little bit, and the other shot good short range, but was worthless at 600yds. Both were toast under 2K rounds.



I have heard the same thing from a well-known BR gunsmith. He said he scoped a T2K barrel recently that had only 900 rounds and was toast as well. Don't know if it is the cartridge (6XC) or the barrel design, but I know I can't afford to replace barrels every 1000 rounds....
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 4:53:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 4:59:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 5:22:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 5:23:26 AM EDT by Yojimbo]
Now if Noveske can find a way to chrome line a CMV/4150 poly barrel and maintain the accuracy they will have created the Uber Tactical Barrel!

I know I keep pushing the envelope, but one day someone will make an AR barrel like that...
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 5:29:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 5:41:07 AM EDT by CitySlicker]

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By dennysguns:
The barrel I got from Steve has around 5K rounds down it, many of them full auto. It is still holding MOA at 100.




To make sure there is no confusion - this is a standard rifled barrel, not poly.





Originally Posted By bigbore:
I sold a Denny an SS 11" Pac-Nor barrel a couple years ago, he said it shoots MOA all day long.



So the Pac-Nor barrel you sold him had conventional rifling?
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 5:35:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 5:41:58 AM EDT by CitySlicker]

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
The 10-8 crew is hard on their 10.5 Noveske Poly barrels and they have done nothing, but impress them. My buddy (JC) who helped with the design of these barrels has well over 14K through his Noveske 10.5 (most of it via F/A) and shoots 1 MOA @ 200yds. I have PERSONALLY never seen a 10.5" SS barrel due that.

I also know that some of the top tier SF guys are running this barrel. From various INFORMED sources the poly rifling appears the way to go.



C4



Grant,

Are you aware of the Carbon Fiber wrapped barrels from ABS? According to Tom (twl is his board name) from MGI, the Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel can be polygonal rifled. My question to you is, is there any reason why a polygonal rifled Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel wouldn't yield the same results as the Noveske Pac-Nor polygonal rifled barrels?

In other words, is all polygonal rifling identical (not considering twist rate)?

Thanks.

Justin
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 5:41:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 5:43:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 5:51:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By CitySlicker:

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
The 10-8 crew is hard on their 10.5 Noveske Poly barrels and they have done nothing, but impress them. My buddy (JC) who helped with the design of these barrels has well over 14K through his Noveske 10.5 (most of it via F/A) and shoots 1 MOA @ 200yds. I have PERSONALLY never seen a 10.5" SS barrel due that.

I also know that some of the top tier SF guys are running this barrel. From various INFORMED sources the poly rifling appears the way to go.



C4



Grant,

Are you aware of the Carbon Fiber wrapped barrels from ABS? According to Tom (twl is his board name) from MGI, the Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel can be polygonal rifled. My question to you is, is there any reason why a polygonal rifled Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel wouldn't yield the same results as the Noveske Pac-Nor polygonal rifled barrels?

In other words, is all polygonal rifling identical (not considering twist rate)?

Thanks.

Justin



I cannot answer this. I will just say that not all barrel makers are equal. There is a difference between a mass produced barrel by a factory worker and one produced by the owner of company who signs his name to every barrel.



C4



Grant,

The ABS barrels are far from mass produced. They are entirely custom (length, twist rate, rifling, caliber, etc...). I guess my question is if there is a standard for polygonal rifling or do the different manufacturers just do what they feel is best?

The reason I ask is because it would be great to have the benefits of a Noveske Pac-Nor polygonal rifled barrel and the advantages of an ABS Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel. The solution: an ABS Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel with polygonal rifling. Would you agree?

Justin
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 6:15:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 6:16:36 AM EDT by C4iGrant]
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 6:26:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By CitySlicker:

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By CitySlicker:

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
The 10-8 crew is hard on their 10.5 Noveske Poly barrels and they have done nothing, but impress them. My buddy (JC) who helped with the design of these barrels has well over 14K through his Noveske 10.5 (most of it via F/A) and shoots 1 MOA @ 200yds. I have PERSONALLY never seen a 10.5" SS barrel due that.

I also know that some of the top tier SF guys are running this barrel. From various INFORMED sources the poly rifling appears the way to go.



C4



Grant,

Are you aware of the Carbon Fiber wrapped barrels from ABS? According to Tom (twl is his board name) from MGI, the Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel can be polygonal rifled. My question to you is, is there any reason why a polygonal rifled Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel wouldn't yield the same results as the Noveske Pac-Nor polygonal rifled barrels?

In other words, is all polygonal rifling identical (not considering twist rate)?

Thanks.

Justin



I cannot answer this. I will just say that not all barrel makers are equal. There is a difference between a mass produced barrel by a factory worker and one produced by the owner of company who signs his name to every barrel.



C4



Grant,

The ABS barrels are far from mass produced. They are entirely custom (length, twist rate, rifling, caliber, etc...). I guess my question is if there is a standard for polygonal rifling or do the different manufacturers just do what they feel is best?

The reason I ask is because it would be great to have the benefits of a Noveske Pac-Nor polygonal rifled barrel and the advantages of an ABS Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel. The solution: an ABS Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel with polygonal rifling. Would you agree?

Justin



My comment was not directed at ABS and realize that carbon fiber barrels are NOT a mass produced item. I do not know if there is Std. for Poly Rifling.

I also know nothing of the carbon fiber barrels so I am not willing to say that it would be an optimal choice (need further research and personal experience with said barrel).


C4



Grant,

So then it's possible that a polygonal rifled barrel from one manufacturer (i.e., Noveske/Pac-Nor) could be entirely different (and therfore yiled entirely different results as well) when compared to a polygonal rifled barrel from another manufacturer (i.e., ABS)?

I will ask twl to chime in with his two cents as he would most likely know if there was a standard of sorts for polygonal rifling.

Justin
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 6:41:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Beefypeanut:
Bump. Because I can't tag.



dont feel bad i can't either, but i still do it
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 6:44:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CitySlicker:

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By CitySlicker:

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By CitySlicker:

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
The 10-8 crew is hard on their 10.5 Noveske Poly barrels and they have done nothing, but impress them. My buddy (JC) who helped with the design of these barrels has well over 14K through his Noveske 10.5 (most of it via F/A) and shoots 1 MOA @ 200yds. I have PERSONALLY never seen a 10.5" SS barrel due that.

I also know that some of the top tier SF guys are running this barrel. From various INFORMED sources the poly rifling appears the way to go.



C4



Grant,

Are you aware of the Carbon Fiber wrapped barrels from ABS? According to Tom (twl is his board name) from MGI, the Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel can be polygonal rifled. My question to you is, is there any reason why a polygonal rifled Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel wouldn't yield the same results as the Noveske Pac-Nor polygonal rifled barrels?

In other words, is all polygonal rifling identical (not considering twist rate)?

Thanks.

Justin



I cannot answer this. I will just say that not all barrel makers are equal. There is a difference between a mass produced barrel by a factory worker and one produced by the owner of company who signs his name to every barrel.



C4



Grant,

The ABS barrels are far from mass produced. They are entirely custom (length, twist rate, rifling, caliber, etc...). I guess my question is if there is a standard for polygonal rifling or do the different manufacturers just do what they feel is best?

The reason I ask is because it would be great to have the benefits of a Noveske Pac-Nor polygonal rifled barrel and the advantages of an ABS Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel. The solution: an ABS Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel with polygonal rifling. Would you agree?

Justin



My comment was not directed at ABS and realize that carbon fiber barrels are NOT a mass produced item. I do not know if there is Std. for Poly Rifling.

I also know nothing of the carbon fiber barrels so I am not willing to say that it would be an optimal choice (need further research and personal experience with said barrel).


C4



Grant,

So then it's possible that a polygonal rifled barrel from one manufacturer (i.e., Noveske/Pac-Nor) could be entirely different (and therfore yiled entirely different results as well) when compared to a polygonal rifled barrel from another manufacturer (i.e., ABS)?

I will ask twl to chime in with his two cents as he would most likely know if there was a standard of sorts for polygonal rifling.

Justin



cityslicker i am also very interested in your questions because im thinking of the same bbl build on a LW gas pistion MRS, please let me kow what you find out.

thanks
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 6:45:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 6:56:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:20:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 7:20:55 AM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:35:12 AM EDT
Isn't the Heckler & Koch PSG-1 a polygonal rifled barrel? That rifle has a fairly long and well documented history of being extremely accurate at long range doesn't it?
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:50:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:57:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:07:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twl:
In response to the questions above about ABS barrels and polygon rifling blanks, ABS does make carbon-fiber barrel systems using Pac-Nor polygon rifled SS blanks, and has made several in the past, and is making a couple right now, in fact.

The standard ABS barrel blank is a Mike Rock SS 6-groove button rifled match barrel blank.
There is an upgrade option to the Mike Rock 5R point-cut rifling SS match barrel blank.

However, we can, and do, make these carbon-fiber barrel systems on other match blanks, and we will do so on customer order. Pac-Nor polygon rifled barrels are a viable and obtainable option from ABS.

ABS does not claim any particular superiority of the polygon rifled blanks from Pac-Nor, but we do respond to customers desired specifications, and will make one of the ABS barrels in that form of barrel on request.

Regarding the LW conversions on ABS barrels, we are cautiously moving toward that with a couple of customers right now, but they are doing it on their own responsibility, and accepting that the barrel warrantee is voided when doing a piston conversion to the barrel. We have no reason to believe that the ABS carbon-fiber barrel system will have any problems at all with the LW conversions, but we haven't tested them with it, and thus we cannot warrantee the barrel when converted. We will ship the barrel to the customer, and they can do as they wish with it after they get it. But, for the time being, the warrantee will not apply after a piston conversion is done to it. Perhaps at a later date, when enough info is in, we can change that policy.

So, at this time, it can be done as long as the terms and procedures are understood.



Thanks twl.

I appreciate the response.

Justin
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 9:48:12 AM EDT
Tag.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 10:29:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 10:31:02 AM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 10:47:08 AM EDT
I have limited access to a five hundred yard range. I would also love to see what my 10.5" Noveske could do out that far, just for the fun of it. I certainly did not buy it with this in mind, but I am curious. The range is over two yours away on a very private club with a three-year waiting list. I get access every now and again because I have a co-worker who is a member. I'm sure a shoot can be arranged with a few phone calls. I will post results after I make this happen.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 1:08:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 1:50:36 PM EDT
btt
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 2:24:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 2:25:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 2:31:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 2:33:22 PM EDT by Kal-El]
found this article, maybe some people might be interested
"Subject: Re: polygonal rifling
From: Gale McMillan <" gale"@mcmfamily.com>
Date: Apr 23 1997
Newsgroups: rec.guns

Barry S Brummett wrote:

# What does "polygonal rifling" mean? How is it different from other
# kinds? Is it a process or a pattern or what? Thanks in advance.

Instead of the rifling being square and hanging down in the bore so that
it can engrave a square notch in the bullet it has flats where the
rifling would be. The bullet is not upset much. Instead of having 6 or
8 sharp knotches it will have small flats that are very unnoticeable.
This makes the bullet fly better in the wind because there is no sharp
edges to bite into a cross wind. The bullet jacket is not deformed as
much so the chances of loose cores are much less. Since there is no
sharp corners to burn off the barrel life is much longer and is
dependent on heat checking alone to end its life. That is one major
reason most barrel makers are not interested in them. It would decrease
their business by half. They are more difficult to make than regular
rifled barrels for a couple of reasons one being they are difficult to
lap and give a cut barrel maker more problems due to tooling.

Gale McMillan"


after reading what bigbore said i think i will go with a Rock ABS bbl

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 2:45:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 2:47:01 PM EDT by twl]
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 9:09:56 PM EDT
I LOVE this Site, so much info

I also hate it, you know why
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top