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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/13/2005 8:34:52 PM EDT
I'm thinking about buying one of these NVGs. I have a Trijicon reflex II on my ar. If I have the NVG monocular over my left eye, and I look through the sight with my right eye, how well will the two images coincide? Thanks in advance
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:59:35 AM EDT
I just tried this the other night with an Aimpoint...thinking of solutions for folks without NV compatable red-dots.

Sounded simple in theory. But, it is really, really hard.


However,
Using a headmounted monocular on your right eye is awesome (and personally preferred to a weapon mount). But, yout Relex may be waaay too bright to do that.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:18:10 AM EDT
I had some PVS-7s that I sold a few months ago, and looking through those nvgs at my reflex worked okay, but it was too cumbersome. I suppose I'll just have to buy the 14s and experiment. Thanks for the input.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:05:49 AM EDT
The trick with head mounted goggles being used with a rifle mounted red dot or reflex sight is to have the sight far enough forward on your rail that it doesn't hit during recoil and high enough that you don't have to strain to bring your head down to meet the sight.

Dave
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 12:56:09 PM EDT
The head gear mount is for general purpose searching.

The weapon mount is for shooting.

Does the PVS-14 "NV tube" detach from the head gear and mount into a weapon sight? If not, why not?
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 11:03:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
The head gear mount is for general purpose searching.

The weapon mount is for shooting people who don't have IR lasers.



Fixed it for you.




Does the PVS-14 "NV tube" detach from the head gear and mount into a weapon sight? If not, why not?



Yes, but then you have to point your weapon at folks to look around. That's why all the hype about IR lasers; you can have your cake and shoot it, too.

Link Posted: 9/16/2005 3:19:14 AM EDT



]

....but then you have to point your weapon at folks to look around. That's why all the hype about IR lasers; you can have your cake and shoot it, too.




Exactly,
You get a much better feild of view, with the head mount & an IR laser. (And you don';t need to swing around a heavy weapon to scan your surroundings).

A QD weapons mount (Like GG&G's) allows the best of both worlds, where you have a weapon mount independent of the headgear mount. Switching between the two takes seconds...
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 7:56:10 AM EDT
Okay, so I'm learning something here. That's good. GG&G makes a QD fitting for the PVS-14.

If you can see in the dark with the NVD why do you need the IR laser? I thought those were for target designation - pointing to something so "the other guy" could shoot at it.

I thought the IR flashlight attachments were a general purpose IR light source for when there was too little ambient light, such as indoors, in a cave or a cloudy night with no stars/moon.

One way to use the head mount and still shoot is to use an Aimpoint sight. You see the Aimpoint's dot reticle with the unaided eye and you see the target via the other, NVD-aided, eye. Put the dot on the target and squeeze. That way you do not have to be a contortionist and line up the head-mounted NVD with the Aimpoint on the rifle. Yes, no?

If I am incorrect, please feel free to set me straight.


Link Posted: 9/16/2005 2:04:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2005 3:47:15 PM EDT by Buck_Naked]

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
Okay, so I'm learning something here. That's good. GG&G makes a QD fitting for the PVS-14.

Realize that you may have a limited amount of time to swap from a headmount to a weapon, and that you will be doing it in the dark. I have a Larue mount, and trying to mount it quickly in the dark isn't the easiest thing to do. Add to this you are fumbling with a $3000 + fragile electronic instrument, and it becomes even more akward.

If you can see in the dark with the NVD why do you need the IR laser? I thought those were for target designation - pointing to something so "the other guy" could shoot at it.

They are for target designation, the 'point at something and shoot' works for you as well. If you are wearing a head mounted unit, you use the laser to indicate point of impact without having to use the sights. Its like using a visable laser without using the sights, but you can only see the laser if you are wearing NV.

I thought the IR flashlight attachments were a general purpose IR light source for when there was too little ambient light, such as indoors, in a cave or a cloudy night with no stars/moon.

They are, but realize if you enter shadows caused by say a mountain blocking the moon, the amount of light that a NVD device magnifies is greatly diminished. Same with entering areas of vegetation such as forest. An IR light provides added illumination in an area where you might not be able to resolve details as well as you might want.

One way to use the head mount and still shoot is to use an Aimpoint sight. You see the Aimpoint's dot reticle with the unaided eye and you see the target via the other, NVD-aided, eye. Put the dot on the target and squeeze. That way you do not have to be a contortionist and line up the head-mounted NVD with the Aimpoint on the rifle. Yes, no?

Its possible, but its harder to do than you might think, my brain has a difficult time synching the two images and it just doesn't work all that well... and there are better options available. For me its not the same as looking through an aimpoint with both eyes open, its more like looking through two different tubes at the same time.

If I am incorrect, please feel free to set me straight.





I am sure there are others with more experience than I have with NVD, but this what I have found to be the case while playing around with mine.

Dave
Link Posted: 9/16/2005 3:43:22 PM EDT
The solution is simple - head mounted PVS-14 with an EoTech
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 2:01:30 AM EDT
How is an eotech better than a reflex or aimpoint when using a PVS 14?
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 3:18:42 AM EDT
1. FOV on Eotech

2. parallax free

3. works best for ME
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 4:43:05 AM EDT
+1 Heron.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 7:44:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 7:47:56 AM EDT by mfingar]
A picture's worth....
(both pics are weapon-mounted)

The Eotech is better with head-mounted PVS, simply because there is more "window" to view through...and the casing profile is slimmer.



Aimpoint (with lens covers in down position)





EoTech

Link Posted: 9/18/2005 2:46:45 PM EDT
Also, an NVD setup to a helmet mount is not going to fall naturally behind your optic and be as easy or quick as using the optic in the daylight. When you set up your NVD, you pick a distance at which you want things to be in focus. If you are in a combat environment, you would focus your NV at the distance in which you expect to engage the enemy...and your rifle will be completely out of focus (which is one of the reasons you can't use your iron sights). With the EOtech and Aimpoint, the reticle is on the same focal plane as the target, more or less, so you can be focused on both the target and the reticle at the same time. In my opinion, it is awkward lining up head mounted night vision with weapon mounted optics quickly. With my PVS-7, the most efficient way is to tilt the rifle like the army teaches one to shoot with a pro mask on. I have both an EOtech and an Aimpoint.

Way back, occasionally an individual might focus one lens of his PVS 5 at close range, and one at long range in an attempt to overcome some of these issues.

With an IR laser and a head mounted NVD, the weapon is presented in the standard fashion, except the head does not need to get down behind the weapon to aquire a sight picture. The laser is activated, and the target is engaged much more quickly, IMO.

As to shooting with a '14 on the left eye, and a aimpoint on the right, I don't think that would work well (although I have never tried it). The '14 does not have to be parrallel to the bore of your rifle to present you with an image... my eyes won't 'lock' together, and point in the same direction, if I can't see the same thing with both eyes. I think it would be a goat rope shooting that way.

Link Posted: 9/18/2005 2:50:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thehardmaster:
How is an eotech better than a reflex or aimpoint when using a PVS 14?



Both the EOtech and the Aimpoint can be purchased with night vision compatible settings. The reflex (which is a poor combat sight IMO) provides light to the reticle based on ambient light, or tritium, whichever is brightest. The reticle would be far to bright, plus the darkly tinted lense would be counter productive.

Link Posted: 9/18/2005 2:56:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eodinert:

With an IR laser and a head mounted NVD, the weapon is presented in the standard fashion, except the head does not need to get down behind the weapon to aquire a sight picture. The laser is activated, and the target is engaged much more quickly, IMO.

As to shooting with a '14 on the left eye, and a aimpoint on the right, I don't think that would work well (although I have never tried it). The '14 does not have to be parrallel to the bore of your rifle to present you with an image... my eyes won't 'lock' together, and point in the same direction, if I can't see the same thing with both eyes. I think it would be a goat rope shooting that way.




I couldn't agree with you more on the observations of the IR laser use. It's been absolutely the fastest way to get accurate hits on targets in my experience.

What's interesting is I started out running my 14 over my right eye and trying to shoulder the weapon to fire. I was never completely satisfied with the way this worked out and read online reports of individuals using their non dominant eye to look through the NV. I tried this and soon found that I could get down on the gun far easier with the optic over the left eye and I didn't seem to be experiencing the situation of banging the NV into the gun. So in this respect one way worked better for me than for some.

While I run both Eotechs and Aimpoints I truly feel the Eotech is the superior unit when used with the PVS 14. The hood tends to disappear better than the body of the Aimpoint for me and the combination of 1 MOA dot and 65 MOA outer circle is very fast when engaging targets in an already dark environment...All basically enhancements of how the sight works in daylight shooting.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:25:52 AM EDT

With an IR laser and a head mounted NVD, the weapon is presented in the standard fashion, except the head does not need to get down behind the weapon to aquire a sight picture. The laser is activated, and the target is engaged much more quickly, IMO.


Indeed...ALL my 200M and in-work is accomplished with a 14 mounted to my head and a laser does all the talking! I can never see going back to getting a cheek weld to shoot at night. The ONLY time I do this nowadays is when I'm shooting 300M or better with my Raptors and D-760's. This "heads-up" shooting is incredibly fast and VERY accurate while employing a laser.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 9:45:20 PM EDT
No, optic with one eye and NV on the other will not work. You are way off in your preconceptions. You want a laser.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 9:47:57 PM EDT
Well, thanks for everyones opinions. I didn't like using my ARs' optics with my PVS-7, and I'll probably feel the same way with the PVS-14. Seems like an IR laser is the way to go. Thanks again.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:40:09 PM EDT
Well, I learned something from this thread - IR lasers are also sighting devices. I have never had any luck at all with weapon mounted laser projection sights. I suppose if the military uses them, they work.

Who makes the specific model used by the military?
Are they available to civilians?
What do they cost?
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:55:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 11:15:11 PM EDT by Buck_Naked]

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
Well, I learned something from this thread - IR lasers are also sighting devices. I have never had any luck at all with weapon mounted laser projection sights. I suppose if the military uses them, they work.

Who makes the specific model used by the military?
Are they available to civilians?
What do they cost?



You might want to look at this thread... www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=20&t=235434
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 9:27:18 AM EDT
That is a long, tedious thread for which I do not have time right now.

Are these lasers LEO/MIL only?

What is the cost range?
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 10:32:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
That is a long, tedious thread for which I do not have time right now.

Are these lasers LEO/MIL only?

What is the cost range?



IR lasers are restricted items for LE/MIL sales only if they are 5MW or above. They are regulated by the FDA. Short and sweet for your time contraints!
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 7:58:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2005 8:09:09 AM EDT by Mike_Mills]
5mW? I have a 1 kW IR laser at work. Talk about lighting up the dark, I could fry the dark.

Are they retricted by law to LEO/MIL only or is it that they require a license?

What's the price and power output of that PEQ-2A which "mfingar" was showing at the end of the thread?
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 10:54:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
5mW? I have a 1 kW IR laser at work. Talk about lighting up the dark, I could fry the dark.

Are they retricted by law to LEO/MIL only or is it that they require a license?

What's the price and power output of that PEQ-2A which "mfingar" was showing at the end of the thread?



25 mW output. laser.
30 mW output illuminator.

They run between $1500-$2500 (depending on the condition and accessories)
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 11:38:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Victor:

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
That is a long, tedious thread for which I do not have time right now.

Are these lasers LEO/MIL only?

What is the cost range?



IR lasers are restricted items for LE/MIL sales only if they are 5MW or above. They are regulated by the FDA. Short and sweet for your time contraints!



If that's the case then why is the Aimpoint LPI restricted? It is only .1MW.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 5:51:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By black556gun:

Originally Posted By Victor:

Originally Posted By Mike_Mills:
That is a long, tedious thread for which I do not have time right now.

Are these lasers LEO/MIL only?

What is the cost range?



IR lasers are restricted items for LE/MIL sales only if they are 5MW or above. They are regulated by the FDA. Short and sweet for your time contraints!



If that's the case then why is the Aimpoint LPI restricted? It is only .1MW.



It's not restricted by law, simply by company policy. They don't want you to have it.
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