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Posted: 4/5/2008 5:43:01 PM EST
Just got a couple boxes at like 10$ each...

Haven't shot yet...It's actually my first 223 ammo I've bought (Have a M&P15 chambered 5.56 and only ran 5.56 specific thru it so far).

Anyone tried it?
Link Posted: 4/5/2008 7:44:38 PM EST

100 Yard Accuracy Evaluation of Prvi Partizan 75 grain Match Ammunition.





The Prvi Partizan 75 grain match ammunition uses an open-tip-match bullet very similar in configuration to Hornady’s 75 grain BTHP bullet used in Hornady’s TAP line of ammunition and in Black Hills’ 75 grain MHP line of ammunition. The Prvi Partizan (PPU) bullet has a nominal length that runs approximately 0.010” – 0.015” shorter than the Hornady bullet. The PPU 75 grain bullet does not have a cannelure, but the case mouth on this load does have a slight collet crimp on it which puts a slight crease in the bullet.







The PPU 75 grain match load uses Boxer primed brass cases and is charged with “ball” powder. Neither the primer nor the case mouth have sealant and the primer is not crimped. Previous chronographing of this load through multiple barrel lengths shows it to run an average of 127 fps slower than the Black Hills 75 grain MHP load.








I have read some statements recently that claim the PPU 75 grain bullet was designed to shoot well through 1:9” twist barrels, yet none of those making these statements have provided any scientific evidence to support this claim. According to the Greenhill formula, the optimal twist for the PPU 75 grain bullet is 1:7.6”.

From a 1:9” twist barrel, the PPU 75 grain match bullet has a gyroscopic stability factor (GSF) of less than 1.25 for all velocities. It is generally accepted that a rifle bullet should have a GSF of 1.5 to 2, with 1.25 being the least acceptable GSF.

Gyroscopc stability factor from a 1:9" twist barrel.



Gyroscopic stability factor from a 1:7.7" twist barrel.



The test-vehicle for this evaluation was an AR-15 with a 24” stainless-steel Kreiger VarMatch barrel, with a 1:7.7” twist, installed on a LaRue Tactical Stealth upper receiver. A Leupold Competition Series Scope was used for sighting. No malfunctions of any kind were experienced during testing.



Following my usual protocol for accuracy evaluation, shooting was done from a bench-rest at 100 yards. Three 10-shot groups were obtained using the PPU 75 grain match load. Those three groups had extreme spreads that measured:

0.66”
0.92”
1.14”

for an average extreme spread of 0.91”.



The best 10-shot group from 100 yards.



The three groups from above were overlayd on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to obtain a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius of this composite group was 0.29”. For comparison, this composite group is pictured below next to a composite group of the Black Hills 75 grain red box MHP load as well as a composite group of one of my handloads.





Chronograph Data for Prvi Partizan 75 grain Match Ammunition





Chronograph data was obtained using an Oehler 35-P with "proof screen" technology. All velocities listed are muzzle velocities as calculated from instrumental velocities using Oehler's Ballistic Explorer. All strings of fire consisted of 10 shots each.

Three different barrel lengths were used in testing: 20", 16" and 14.5". All barrels were of Colt manufacture, with chrome lining, NATO chambers and 1:7" twists.




atmospheric conditions:

Average temperature- 83 degrees F
Humidity - 64%
Barometric pressure – 30.04
Elevation- 960 feet above sea level


Link Posted: 4/5/2008 8:02:10 PM EST
I nominate this thread for Best First Reply Ever.
Link Posted: 4/5/2008 9:03:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Schulze:
I nominate this thread for Best First Reply Ever.


Well, I agree. At least someone is actually shooting it, rather than hoarding and storing it.
Link Posted: 4/5/2008 9:12:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:

Originally Posted By Schulze:
I nominate this thread for Best First Reply Ever.


Well, I agree. At least someone is actually shooting it, rather than hoarding and storing it.


Heck,

I shoot this stuff...it is my proof round...if I feel that my reloads are off...I shoot this stuff as a point of reference...GTG..esp for the price...
Link Posted: 4/6/2008 3:11:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/6/2008 3:11:58 AM EST by kdmoore]
wow, just wow!

Molon, maybe you could explain the intricacies of picking up the ladies!

WOW, JUST WOW!
Link Posted: 4/6/2008 3:48:24 AM EST
Great response!
Link Posted: 4/6/2008 4:43:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/6/2008 4:45:38 AM EST by cju1979]
Thanks for the reply. May not be optimum for my twist but still probably better than the Winchester & Adcom stuff it's used to.


Like I said, It was my first ammo that wasn't 5.56 specific and I was a little hesitant to push it thru. Now I might try and find some tests with a barrel 1:9.

Thanks again.
Link Posted: 4/6/2008 2:37:41 PM EST
I like the stuff, Wife says no-no to more right now.
Link Posted: 4/7/2008 3:16:09 AM EST
Thanks for posting that. It was informative and helpful. BubbaD
Link Posted: 4/7/2008 4:27:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/7/2008 5:02:47 AM EST by wienerdog]
My first time out this year with my RRA AR A4 I shot this group...
http://aycu16.webshots.com/image/49055/2000961946150620699_rs.jpg
damn..Wrong date on the group, should be 4-5-08.

Heres a 75gr. Prvi from last year. I gotta get some more of that stuff!
http://aycu08.webshots.com/image/50407/2000981958108048841_rs.jpg

ETA: So far I've shot 200 rounds of Prvi 75grain match .223 Rem. all with the same rifle and I have found there to be consistantly more flyers or group spoilers than with other premium grade ammo.
I wonder if anyone else can conclude the same?

Link Posted: 4/7/2008 4:53:43 AM EST
Anybody know about the .308 stuff?
Link Posted: 4/9/2008 12:23:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/9/2008 12:34:42 AM EST by Tolip]
Thanks for the great information.
I just received 200rds of this from aim surplus at ~$8/box.
I thought I would let my 1:8 twist 20" AR try something a little heavier than XM193. It sounds like Black Hills may be a better bet.
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 1:54:41 AM EST
Is this privi match 75gr the same as the 75gr made by privi, but packaged for Wolf, under their "gold" label? For instance, the same as what Ammoman is selling:

WOLF (PRIVI PARTISAN) 223
75 GRAIN BOAT TAIL HP
BRASS CASE AND NON CORROSIVE
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 4:22:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By Molon:
100 Yard Accuracy Evaluation of Prvi Partizan 75 grain Match Ammunition.

www.box.net/shared/static/3o4sakyz9f.jpg



The Prvi Partizan 75 grain match ammunition uses an open-tip-match bullet very similar in configuration to Hornady’s 75 grain BTHP bullet used in Hornady’s TAP line of ammunition and in Black Hills’ 75 grain MHP line of ammunition. The Prvi Partizan (PPU) bullet has a nominal length that runs approximately 0.010” – 0.015” shorter than the Hornady bullet. The PPU 75 grain bullet does not have a cannelure, but the case mouth on this load does have a slight collet crimp on it which puts a slight crease in the bullet.



www.box.net/shared/static/vu80fbl2dq.jpg

www.box.net/shared/static/p2fj79s8ho.jpg

The PPU 75 grain match load uses Boxer primed brass cases and is charged with “ball” powder. Neither the primer nor the case mouth have sealant and the primer is not crimped. Previous chronographing of this load through multiple barrel lengths shows it to run an average of 127 fps slower than the Black Hills 75 grain MHP load.


www.box.net/shared/static/njsq0xh0sq.jpg

www.box.net/shared/static/o515xpx4k1.jpg

www.box.net/shared/static/d45v271mry.jpg

I have read some statements recently that claim the PPU 75 grain bullet was designed to shoot well through 1:9” twist barrels, yet none of those making these statements have provided any scientific evidence to support this claim. According to the Greenhill formula, the optimal twist for the PPU 75 grain bullet is 1:7.6”.

From a 1:9” twist barrel, the PPU 75 grain match bullet has a gyroscopic stability factor (GSF) of less than 1.25 for all velocities. It is generally accepted that a rifle bullet should have a GSF of 1.5 to 2, with 1.25 being the least acceptable GSF.

Gyroscopc stability factor from a 1:9" twist barrel.

www.box.net/shared/static/n5zdm1u8an.jpg

Gyroscopic stability factor from a 1:7.7" twist barrel.

www.box.net/shared/static/4dqy5u18rg.jpg

The test-vehicle for this evaluation was an AR-15 with a 24” stainless-steel Kreiger VarMatch barrel, with a 1:7.7” twist, installed on a LaRue Tactical Stealth upper receiver. A Leupold Competition Series Scope was used for sighting. No malfunctions of any kind were experienced during testing.

www.box.net/shared/static/f5nt9hkjlx.jpg

Following my usual protocol for accuracy evaluation, shooting was done from a bench-rest at 100 yards. Three 10-shot groups were obtained using the PPU 75 grain match load. Those three groups had extreme spreads that measured:

0.66”
0.92”
1.14”

for an average extreme spread of 0.91”.



The best 10-shot group from 100 yards.

www.box.net/shared/static/4hfdi5ii9x.jpg

The three groups from above were overlayd on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to obtain a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius of this composite group was 0.29”. For comparison, this composite group is pictured below next to a composite group of the Black Hills 75 grain red box MHP load as well as a composite group of one of my handloads.



www.box.net/shared/static/ymurmkahz1.jpg

Chronograph Data for Prvi Partizan 75 grain Match Ammunition


www.box.net/shared/static/3o4sakyz9f.jpg


Chronograph data was obtained using an Oehler 35-P with "proof screen" technology. All velocities listed are muzzle velocities as calculated from instrumental velocities using Oehler's Ballistic Explorer. All strings of fire consisted of 10 shots each.

Three different barrel lengths were used in testing: 20", 16" and 14.5". All barrels were of Colt manufacture, with chrome lining, NATO chambers and 1:7" twists.


www.box.net/shared/static/4j7nxibrlt.jpg

atmospheric conditions:

Average temperature- 83 degrees F
Humidity - 64%
Barometric pressure – 30.04
Elevation- 960 feet above sea level



Great writeup Molon! Thank you for the great testing!
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 5:13:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By Iraqninja:
Is this privi match 75gr the same as the 75gr made by privi, but packaged for Wolf, under their "gold" label? For instance, the same as what Ammoman is selling:

WOLF (PRIVI PARTISAN) 223
75 GRAIN BOAT TAIL HP
BRASS CASE AND NON CORROSIVE


Yes, Wolf Gold = PPU Match
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 5:36:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 5:52:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 8:35:24 AM EST
Has anyone tried this stuff with a 1:9 barrel? I'm thinking of picking some up on my next trip to Aim Surplus.
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 9:41:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By agillig:
Has anyone tried this stuff with a 1:9 barrel? I'm thinking of picking some up on my next trip to Aim Surplus.


I picked up 500 rounds of this last year. Still have about 140 rounds left. It shot fine out of my 1/9" mid-length.

I'll take some out to French Creek tomorrow and do more shooting with it.
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 11:19:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By RedFalconBill:

Originally Posted By agillig:
Has anyone tried this stuff with a 1:9 barrel? I'm thinking of picking some up on my next trip to Aim Surplus.


I picked up 500 rounds of this last year. Still have about 140 rounds left. It shot fine out of my 1/9" mid-length.

I'll take some out to French Creek tomorrow and do more shooting with it.


Thanks. By "fine", do you mean "fine" by match ammo standard?
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 4:18:44 PM EST
Molon - if you wrote dating guides, we couldn't handle the resulting population explosion.

FANTASTIC - now you've got me sold on a case.
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 5:02:00 PM EST
are there any tests done with a 1/9 barrel?
Link Posted: 4/15/2008 11:55:49 PM EST
Test? Hell buy a case shoot it, so what 1.25" or 1.75" at 100 yrds, boxer primed? reload it for the rifle and get .5 to .25 at 100 yrds
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 3:53:12 AM EST
trinydex,

One group from a RRA Entry Tactical with a Burris 2-7x35 Fullfield Tactical. Fairly hot barrel @100yds.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 1:31:41 PM EST
I ordered 2 cases from OHSI (Jerrys) today. I plan on putting some thru my 18" CMMG SPR 1/8 twist



Freefloated w/Samson rifle length. RRA NM trigger

Ta01NSN Acog


Will also put some thru my 14.5" M4A1 CMMG 1/7 twist
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 2:47:58 PM EST
I'm going to use the 75gr Wolf gold at a match in a few weeks. My problem is that my local range is limited to 200yds and the match is going to have targets out to 360yds. I am looking for a bullet drop chart for this ammo and can't find one. Can anyone help me out?

20" barrel - 1/8 twist.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 6:17:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 9:39:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By Schulze:
I nominate this thread for Best First Reply Ever.


+1

If you reload, you can buy the 75 gr. bullets in 500 round lots for $52 and then fine tune for your rifle.
I've been using them for High Power matches (reloads) and have had pretty good results... Right at 1 moa in a WOA service rifle.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 4:35:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cold:

what match in NY? The square deal match in may?


Yes. I'll be there on Saturday. Looks to be a good match.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 4:58:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 6:03:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 12:29:57 PM EST
Anything with respect to wounding?
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 6:28:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2008 8:56:37 AM EST by RedFalconBill]
I went out on Friday to the PA State Game Land Range next to French Creek to chrony some of my PPU 75gr HPBT ammo.

Barrel: 16" Sabre Defence Mid-Length, Chrome-Lined, 1/9" twist

Temp 82
Hum: 31%
El: 870ft

Number of shots: 15
Velocity measurement taken @ 10 ft from muzzle.
High Vel: 2,475
Low Vel: 2,415
Avg. Vel: 2,447.27
Median Vel: 2,451
Extreme Spread: 60
Std. Dev.: 18.83


04/21/08 ETA Mean Radius and Group Size

Target Distance: 100 yards
Shooting Stance: Bench, Unsupported (I forgot to bring the front rest and bunny bag)
Number of Shots: 15
Number of Groups: 1
Group Size: 3.68"
Mean Radius: 1.15"
Link Posted: 4/21/2008 6:41:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2008 7:46:08 AM EST by Molon]

Originally Posted By RedFalconBill:
I went out on Friday to the PA State Game Land Range next to French Creek to chrony some of my PPU 75gr HPBT ammo.

Barrel: 16" Sabre Defence Mid-Length, Chrome-Lined, 1/9" twist

Temp 82
Hum: 31%
El: 870ft

Number of shots: 15
Velocity measurement taken @ 10 ft from muzzle.
High Vel: 2,475
Low Vel: 2,415
Avg. Vel: 2,447.27
Median Vel: 2,451
Extreme Spread: 60
Std. Dev.: 18.83


Nice work! From your instrumental readings, you would have a muzzle velocity of 2455 fps. Our muzzle velocities for this ammunition when fired from 16" barrels only differ by 7 fps!
Link Posted: 4/21/2008 7:55:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2008 2:30:30 PM EST by RedFalconBill]

Originally Posted By Molon:

Originally Posted By RedFalconBill:
I went out on Friday to the PA State Game Land Range next to French Creek to chrony some of my PPU 75gr HPBT ammo.

Barrel: 16" Sabre Defence Mid-Length, Chrome-Lined, 1/9" twist

Temp 82
Hum: 31%
El: 870ft

Number of shots: 15
Velocity measurement taken @ 10 ft from muzzle.
High Vel: 2,475
Low Vel: 2,415
Avg. Vel: 2,447.27
Median Vel: 2,451
Extreme Spread: 60
Std. Dev.: 18.83


Nice work! From your instrumental readings, you would have a muzzle velocity of 2455 fps. Our muzzle velocities for this ammunition when fired from 16" barrels only differ by 7 fps!


Thanks, Molon! BTW, I'm will edit my earlier post to add my Mean Radius and Group Size because I had to do the math by hand.
Link Posted: 4/21/2008 9:00:36 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By BulletcatchR:
I have a 26" 1/9 bushy barrel on my 'SPR' I'm going try out with the PRVI. I originally built it for light loads but so far it fas performd well with heavier bulletts up to 72 gr that I've tried.
I'm not a hole puncher, minute of face at 400 M is the standard I like to maintain. I'm more interested in terminal velocity, damage and using the rifle for something more than prarie dogs and varminting.

I'm also going to try this in my AR pistol 11 1/2" 1/9 for a defensive load. My barrel is about shot out so changing the twist when I update to suit a heavier bullet is in my plans.

Found a good price here:http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product1317.htmlCheck out shipping costs-$53/1000 to UT kills it for me!!!

c361

Stan


Link Posted: 4/21/2008 9:31:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By trebor2005:

Originally Posted By BulletcatchR:
I have a 26" 1/9 bushy barrel on my 'SPR' I'm going try out with the PRVI. I originally built it for light loads but so far it fas performd well with heavier bulletts up to 72 gr that I've tried.
I'm not a hole puncher, minute of face at 400 M is the standard I like to maintain. I'm more interested in terminal velocity, damage and using the rifle for something more than prarie dogs and varminting.

I'm also going to try this in my AR pistol 11 1/2" 1/9 for a defensive load. My barrel is about shot out so changing the twist when I update to suit a heavier bullet is in my plans.

Found a good price here:http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product1317.htmlCheck out shipping costs-$53/1000 to UT kills it for me!!!

c361

Stan


Ammoman still has a few cases @$450/1,000 delivered East of the Mississippi.

Bracing for the new 'higher' price.
Link Posted: 4/21/2008 10:27:07 PM EST
Anyone test for fragmentation?
Link Posted: 4/26/2008 9:41:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/26/2008 9:50:31 AM EST by Cold]
Link Posted: 4/26/2008 11:24:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cold:
Went to the range today with a buddy to work on some shooting.

I took his 16 inch WOA barrel and got a 5 shot group with the 75 grain PRVI,

img76.imageshack.us/img76/9460/prvi2zp0.jpg

approx 5-10 mph wind too


Is everyone getting about the same result or is this above normal?


I just mounted a Millet DMS-1 on my CMMG 18" SPR 1/8 twist upper...Ive got 2 cases of this 75gr ammo.. I have got to get to the range
Link Posted: 4/26/2008 11:31:15 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/27/2008 9:28:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By cowboy7242001:

Originally Posted By KYOSHI:
Anyone test for fragmentation?


+1

Anyone have any info or WAGs?


+2
Link Posted: 5/5/2008 11:23:48 PM EST
Molon-
Your usual 110% effort, thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 5/6/2008 12:34:20 AM EST
Excellent ammo, my only complaint is that it contains more "group spoilers" than other match ammo. With some "flyers" impacting alittle above or alittle below where most of my rounds impact. I do not have this problem with BH or Fed match grade ammo
Link Posted: 5/7/2008 2:31:27 PM EST
Is gyroscopic stability based purely on muzzle velocity? Does stability deteriorate at normal shooting ranges? With a muzzle velocity of 2500 that you get from a 20" barrel it is barely in the 1.5-2.0 range.
Link Posted: 5/7/2008 3:10:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/16/2008 1:16:25 PM EST by Molon]

Originally Posted By 1179:

Originally Posted By cowboy7242001:

Originally Posted By KYOSHI:
Anyone test for fragmentation?


+1

Anyone have any info or WAGs?


+2


Check back near the end of July.
Link Posted: 5/7/2008 3:14:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nate7out:

Is gyroscopic stability based purely on muzzle velocity? NO

Does stability deteriorate at normal shooting ranges? NO

With a muzzle velocity of 2500 that you get from a 20" barrel it is barely in the 1.5-2.0 range. YES, and that's not a bad thing.
Link Posted: 7/16/2008 12:35:39 PM EST
the prvi match is definitely my favorite ammunition. it makes my sig 556 seem like a precision rifle, i think other 556 owners will know what i mean.

i can't wait to try it in my rra varminter.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:38:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 9:43:08 PM EST by RFmissile]
Molon,

When you are doing your accuracy testing, how much time do you allow between each shot on your 10 shot strings?

Do you allow the barrel to cool between each 10 shot string?

Do you clean the barrel between each 10 shot string?

Just curios because this AM at the range, I noticed that my 10 shot groups grew and the 3rd string with barrel hot the group size was almost double.

How much time should I allow for barrel to cool, if any between strings?
100 yard bench rest 20" 1X8 Superior barrel




Thanks
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 5:00:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 5:11:09 AM EST by Molon]

Originally Posted By RFmissile:
Molon,

When you are doing your accuracy testing, how much time do you allow between each shot on your 10 shot strings?

After each shot, I take a couple of deep breaths to re-oxygenate my Mark I eyeballs, re-acquire a sight picture and then as soon as I get a good read on the wind I'm squeezing the trigger again.


Do you allow the barrel to cool between each 10 shot string?

Not on purpose for any particular length of time. After each 10-shot string I load the next magazine, (take a drink of Pepsi) and then settle back in to position and begin the next 10-shot string. After 2-3 strings it's usually time for a target check and then the cycle repeats.



Do you clean the barrel between each 10 shot string?

Never. If an AR-15 barrel has to be cleaned after 10 shots to maintain its accuracy, it's not a barrel I'm interested in owning. In a typical trip to the range for accuraccy testing of multiple loads, I might fire 80-120 rounds without cleaning.



How much time should I allow for the barrel to cool, if any between strings?


As I mentioned above, I don't purposely take any particular length of time between strings. I recently conducted an experiment in which I fired 30 shots in a row over a time span of 45 minutes. I allowed the barrel to cool in between each shot for an average of 1 shot every 1.5 minutes. I then fired three 10-shot groups in a row at my ususal pace for comparison. I'll be posting the results in the near future.
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