Rock-n-roll baby, that is the only way! ! ! !   How many have heard that famous line.
Line being the operative word.

Personnel from the Army Material Systems Analysis Agency  (AMSAA) told me in a nutshell if you ever see test results showing full auto more effective than semi auto, it is a rigged test.

That can't be right because on TV we have all seen full auto fire place rounds in nice even lines exactly where the hired gun wants them.  It is amazing what a prop man can do with squib charges, a couple of miles of wire, a battery and a long board of nails with wire run from the charge to the nail and another nail  with wire to a battery.

How do you go about proving the AMSAA boys don't know what they are talking about because on TV...........................

Quite simple actually.  

Here is what you need:

2 pieces of OSB

12 2X4s,

Nails

Tape Measure

Hammer

roll of one inch masking tape.

stop watch or even better a RU Ready speed timer.

End roll of newsprint from newspaper office.  Some will give you the end rolls from the big bundles they cut off before press runs out of paper.  Some will charge you a small fee.

Transtar Silhouettes or silhouettes with scroring rings on them defining lethal and non lethal areas.  IPSC targets will do fine as well.

First off develop a questionaire asking such things as name, unit, his marksmanship rating, his opinion of his ability to shoot, the average combat range full auto would be fired most effectively,  why full auto is superior etc etc.

First off you build a 8 foot by 8 foot frame from the 2X4s.  Next you nail the OSB panels to the studs and stand the target up on the range.  Use other 2X4s to brace the target in a triangle on each side.

Now cover the entire surface with newsprint.  Take the silhouette target and staple it at bottom of 8X8 centered.

Have your shooter assume the standing position (John Wayne) 50 yards from the target and give him a 30 round magazine.  On command he is to fire the entire magazine in any fashion he feels will be most effective for the largest number of hits on the target as fast as he can.   If you are using a stop watch Stand where you can observe the bolt.  When he fires the first round start the  watch and when the bolt stays to the rear stop the watch and record the time.

As the weapon cools down walk down and plot the shots on the target on a separate piece of paper.  Even better take your digital camera and photograph him standing next to his work showing all the bullet holes.  Note:  If your shooter is good he will have ten vital hits and maybe six hits at the upper edge of the target if three shot bursts are used.  The remainder are Moon Shots.   If it is one continious burst you will have two shots on the paper.  One dead center, the next at the upper corner (right for right handed firer and left for leftie) and the rest Moon shots.

On a form showing a target have him plot the shots as accurately as he can by dots.

Show the time alotted from first to last round.

Next clean the target up by taping the Moon Shots and replacing the silhouette.  Return to the 50 yard line and have him load and be ready with weapon on semi auto.  Tell him that when he starts to fire you will start the watch and when he arrives at the same time he used to shoot the first magazine you will place your hand on his shoulder and he will cease fire immediately. Again shoot as fast as he feels comfortable.

After he fires go down and score, photograph, record etc.

Ask him to explain how he was able to get more hits on the silhouette with semi auto than full auto.  Next ask to to explain why full auto is superior to semi auto.   This is where it gets funny.  "It feels better."  " I like the sound." "It makes them keep their head down." "Combat does not take place at 50 yards." etc etc.

Ask him next what he considers to be an effective combat range for full auto.  He will most likely say do some quick analysis of his target and say  10 yards.  At that point get a gallon jug of water and have him shoot it.  After he does so ask him to explain how two to five more shots will do it better.

This is a worst case scenario.  Doing the same test at 25 yards is even more dramatic.
In three shot bursts he should be able to keep all 5.56 rounds on the 8X8.  For a right handed shooter you should have ten dead center hits, ten shots just above the shoulder of the silhouette, (right side for right handers, left side for lefties).  You may have one or two shots hit a ear or nip shoulder etc.   At the very upper portion of the 8X8 you will have a 24 to 36" group.

Score, photograph etc. as above.  Again have him do same drill in semi auto at same time frame.  Have him explain again how full auto is more effective.

Personally I think Patton said it best, make the other poor bastard give his life for his country or as of late sign him up for the 77 virgin tour.  

Bottom line is you can sign more up in semi auto than full auto and maybe you can educate your folks that rock-n-roll is for juke boxes and movies. Hits Count, Misses don't.  Then you will know why the title of  this article is BS.

I didn't have time to read your post but just reacting to the title, it's complete BS and I have never heard such a thing, if anything it's always that semi is more asccurate the FA.

If my answer is stupid because I didn't read the post than please feel free to call me so

cool test. but it's an eloborate way of proving that the sky is blue. anyone with experience shooting F/A knows this, and those who have never shot F/A assume semi to be more accurate. YMMV

I read the whole thing, expecting to see pictures posted!

Yeah you can lead them to water but sometimes you just gotta hold their head down.haha. Some are harder to hold down than others.

I have done that to about 20 EXSPURTS and then they realize TV is BS.  Thought I would write it up as I know there are some exasperated types out there that keep hearing FA is better.  Thought I would give them a fool proof way to prove SA is far superior.

It is much harder for them to refute the proof when they did all the shooting.

I have seen a guy that could get three silhouttes quicker with a revolver than anyone could with a MG and from 7 yards ! ! ! !


Glad you see are flying the Bonnie Blue

By the way I liked your quote.

Ummmmm yeah....

we have conclusive test results from my unit that a micro-saw (not a technical term) can very accurately cover the entire opposite side of a room with lead in a 10x10x7 room way faster than a sem or 3-shot burst can. so sometimes that FA is useful

All I know is when you double from the bench who knows where the second shot goes .

Actually there are pictues.  Did a fairly conclusive test with AUG, UZI, M4, H&K93 and Ruger Mini 14 I think it was.  Started off at 25 yards and then went to 50.  We were going to 100 when the guy that wanted it done decided I was right.  I outshot him for groups at all phases and still results were crap.

I have the folder of them if they did not stick together by now.  Most likely they have.  All 8X10 color about an inch  thick.  Haven't looked at them in years.

The M4 was best if you consider 33% vital hits best. Maybe 1 or 2% non vital hits.

NOTE: 33% hits means two out of every three shots were complete misses at 25 yards.
UZI was the worst if memory serves me correctly.  

here we go

Even with an easy to control, low recoil MP5, the second and third round is hitting higher than the first round fired, if nothing else, the vibration of the weapon and sights obscure the sight  picture, by the time the 1st round leaves the muzzle, I'm only hoping the sights are staying on target.
If you look at videos of full auto M16s being fired, you may notice how little the muzzle is moving and rising in recoil, but it is, so is the entire weapon.  With its straight line stock, I don't think one can do much better in minimizing the muzzle rise.  
I think the only way for the 2nd and 3rd round to keep on target is if the weapon has a very high cyclic rate, something like 2000rpm in short bursts, the second round is fired even before the 1st leaves the muzzle, like the G11.

i dont think anyone is reading the whole OP

For all of you that read the thread title, and did not read the initial post, go back and reread it.

He is saying that the thread title is bs

TXL

Quoted: ...I would rather confront 5 gang bangers with full auto AK's...

Then, Bankhead Avenue in Atlanta is the place to be!

Quoted: Sounds like some guys need a little help with their recoil management.  Maybe this little gal can help.   politesocietyinc.com/pics/shoots/081906/count_the_brass.JPG

Not if she is fully clothed.  

Heard a neat little story that happened on a military base in California many years ago.
Seems there was a conventional high power match being conducted on a KD range and next to it was a machinegun range with a unit doing its thing.

That unit shot up 15,000 rounds of ammo in full auto at new cardboard E silhouettes and CO went down and scored targets and they had something like 7 hits on 25 targets.
CO was not a happy camper.

The CO told everyone to stand fast and went over to the KD range who was finishing up at 600 and asked if a couple of guys would come over and do a demo for him.  Three guys said they would and came over with their BOLT GUNS and CO  told his people to gather round.

Bolt gun shooters started at ready position standing loaded and on command they hit prone and opened up for 60 seconds.  CO then had his unit go down and retrieve the targets. 25 targets, 60 seconds, every target at 2 holes and some had three.. 30 rounds fired, 30 hits.

Quoted: 25 targets, 60 seconds, every target at 2 holes and some had three.. 30 rounds fired, 30 hits.

Can you explain that one to me?

25 targets, each hit 2-3 times. that's 50-75 holes, out of a total of 30 rounds fired.

Did i miss something, or is my calculator not working at 0500?

I am still asleep, onboard calculator failure, operator malfunction, data overload,and dust on my floppy.  Would you go for a shot in each target and some with two. haha.

Quoted: I am still asleep, onboard calculator failure, operator malfunction, data overload,and dust on my floppy.  Would you go for a shot in each target and some with two. haha.

I hear ya, on hour 11 of a 12 hour graveyard shift.

apples are apples and oranges are oranges. each have their uses and pros/cons.

Any soldier knows that full auto is rarely the way to go.....thats why we rarely ever switched from semi to auto (M16a1's) except for fun.

Now....M60's, saws, m2's are all different stories too...

M60....shoot short 5-7 (8?) round bursts.....Great supressive fire.

Saws...much easier to control...especially while standing. same idea.

M2's....long range advantage....walk those rounds into that target...what was it? Max effective range? 1800 meters? Do that on semi or auto with an m16 or saw or even a m60...lol.

Yeah it is amazing what happens when you add weight, a bipod or tripod + T&E mech.
All bets are off.
Obviously what I was referring to was to the most universally issued weapons to one man.

Even with a bipod on a heavy gun you have to rain ammo down in torrents.

Know a guy who was running a test and three deer came out on the MG range at 600 yards.  The shooters were given permission to take them down as it was deer season.

Three cans later three white flags danced merrily away unscathed.