Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 10/7/2018 11:31:22 AM EDT
Very interested in this scope. The reticle is, in my opinion, the best out there for 5.56.

What I am more interested in, is it's 1x performance vs a red dot.

Has anyone extensively used this at 1x? How would it do for a carbine class? Would it be fast enough for 1x use as a "next to the bed" rifle?

The other optic I am strongly considering is the Steiner p4xi. Same questions: 1x performance, shooting from awkward positions, etc.

Anyone have any input here?

Thanks, guys!
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 12:05:26 PM EDT
I haven't looked thru a PA. The ACSS reticle seems busy for my taste but it is well thought out if you are interested in moving target holds and what not.

The Steiner P4Xi is a great little optic. I have looked through them and I own the bigger brother the T5Xi. I prefer LPVO over red dots for everything except a 100% dedicated HD rifle.

Depends on what carbine class you are going to I suppose, and how far you plan to shoot.
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 12:25:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 12:30:53 PM EDT
I have extensively used LPVOs on 1x. Other than weight, I don't find them to give up anything to a red dot.

Theoretical discussions about exit pupil and eye relief aside, I would not hesitate to use a Steiner P4Xi on 1x for a bedside rifle.
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 12:35:09 PM EDT
It's a combo range/bedside rifle....wish I funds for rifles for each, but right now, it's my one and only AR15.

Wasp: have you shot one at weird angles, like under, or around obstacles, or shot while moving? That's what I'm concerned about vs a red dot.
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 2:14:23 PM EDT
Primary Arms makes a great budget scope with a reticle that hits well above its weight class.

I’m biased and prefer PA because of their practical, useable reticle.
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 4:05:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Beagle556:
It's a combo range/bedside rifle....wish I funds for rifles for each, but right now, it's my one and only AR15.

Wasp: have you shot one at weird angles, like under, or around obstacles, or shot while moving? That's what I'm concerned about vs a red dot.
View Quote
The Steiner has a better reticle and the eyebox is much much more forgiving for that. Definitely pony up for the Steiner.
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 5:16:38 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Caeser2001:

The Steiner has a better reticle and the eyebox is much much more forgiving for that. Definitely pony up for the Steiner.
View Quote
I would agree, I'd totally prefer the single daylight bright red dot vs full reticle illum (non daylight bright) for a class. I imagine the max range at the class is 200 yards anyways good for a 1-4x.
Link Posted: 10/7/2018 8:44:13 PM EDT
Class should be only out to 250 yards.
I'll see how the Steiner does
Link Posted: 10/8/2018 2:23:29 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Beagle556:
It's a combo range/bedside rifle....wish I funds for rifles for each, but right now, it's my one and only AR15.

Wasp: have you shot one at weird angles, like under, or around obstacles, or shot while moving? That's what I'm concerned about vs a red dot.
View Quote
Yes, quite a bit. Never had a single moment where I was hunting for the reticle.

https://youtu.be/wP8m0h7R2jA
Link Posted: 10/8/2018 3:33:53 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Vespid_Wasp:

Yes, quite a bit. Never had a single moment where I was hunting for the reticle.

https://youtu.be/wP8m0h7R2jA
View Quote
Is that you? That looks FUN!
Link Posted: 10/8/2018 10:48:41 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Beagle556:

Is that you? That looks FUN!
View Quote
It is. 3 gun is the most fun you can have with pants on.

https://youtu.be/XcsPq06QXLI
Link Posted: 10/9/2018 3:08:20 PM EDT
Nice
Link Posted: 10/9/2018 7:47:37 PM EDT
I like the ACSS reticle, however the reticle is NOT DAYLIGHT BRIGHT. So if you are looking for an illuminated reticle, pass on the PA.
Link Posted: 10/11/2018 8:17:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2018 8:19:14 PM EDT by Vespid_Wasp]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By metalsaber:
I like the ACSS reticle, however the reticle is NOT DAYLIGHT BRIGHT. So if you are looking for an illuminated reticle, pass on the PA.
View Quote
Maybe I am weird but if there is one thing I would omit for less costly optics it is daylight illumination.

A bold SFP reticle doesnt gain much from illumination. I regularly use my razor with the illumination off, I dont notice any difference in speed.

Even a well designed FFP reticle doesn't require it IMHO.

Low light conditions is when I want illumination.

Maybe I am spoiled because the Razor and Steiner T5xi are both super bright, and I dont realize when I might miss it.

I do use it frequently at 1x.
Link Posted: 10/11/2018 9:36:56 PM EDT
I have a PA 1-6 raptor, and I shot a competition with it earlier this summer.

The eyebox is OK, field of view at 6x is tight (which means work for followups). Your question was 1x, i find it ok at 1x. The diopter is generous. I do see some light fisheye around the very outer picture at 1x.
My personal preference for allaround gat is iron sights with a carry handle with RDS on top of that.
And for those of you wondering, the RDS is zeroed at 50 and my irons are zeroed RIBZ. This is pointing a carbine gassed 14.5 w/pinned device, and my RDS is an MRO.
Back to the PA raptor, I think it really shines at 3x with a good FOV and the chevron is meaningful.
The wind ticks are slightly gimmicky, but do help quite a bit over basic crosshairs.

I suggest you get the scope first, then see how you like the eyebox before you go with a standard or extended mount. I went with a standard, the extended seemed to pull the eyebox too much into the charging handle for my taste, and I'm no big guy either.
Link Posted: 10/12/2018 8:01:59 AM EDT
Only scopes I would consider must be daylight bright...
Link Posted: 10/12/2018 10:09:23 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By battlemidget:
I suggest you get the scope first, then see how you like the eyebox before you go with a standard or extended mount. I went with a standard, the extended seemed to pull the eyebox too much into the charging handle for my taste, and I'm no big guy either.
View Quote
Huh, my big issue with it (weight aside) is I feel like it has a bit TOO much eye relief for what I want. I would be happy with a 3" forward offset over the 1.93" I'm using now. Any chance you have used the Steiner also? I'm really wanting to hear side by side on the two because I frequently see the Steiner recommended as the best sub-$500 optic and I need someone to validate my $360 Raptor because I'm in the dog house if I buy another scope right now!
Link Posted: 10/12/2018 2:35:16 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Vespid_Wasp:
Maybe I am weird but if there is one thing I would omit for less costly optics it is daylight illumination.

A bold SFP reticle doesnt gain much from illumination. I regularly use my razor with the illumination off, I dont notice any difference in speed.

Even a well designed FFP reticle doesn't require it IMHO.

Low light conditions is when I want illumination.

Maybe I am spoiled because the Razor and Steiner T5xi are both super bright, and I dont realize when I might miss it.

I do use it frequently at 1x.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Vespid_Wasp:
Originally Posted By metalsaber:
I like the ACSS reticle, however the reticle is NOT DAYLIGHT BRIGHT. So if you are looking for an illuminated reticle, pass on the PA.
Maybe I am weird but if there is one thing I would omit for less costly optics it is daylight illumination.

A bold SFP reticle doesnt gain much from illumination. I regularly use my razor with the illumination off, I dont notice any difference in speed.

Even a well designed FFP reticle doesn't require it IMHO.

Low light conditions is when I want illumination.

Maybe I am spoiled because the Razor and Steiner T5xi are both super bright, and I dont realize when I might miss it.

I do use it frequently at 1x.
The whole point of the illumination is for quick acquisition of the eye against various lighting conditions. Even if you don't "need" an illuminated reticle, if the optic has one, it SHOULD be daylight bright.
Link Posted: 10/12/2018 2:35:27 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Harv24:
Only scopes I would consider must be daylight bright...
View Quote
i would agree
Link Posted: 10/13/2018 2:17:11 PM EDT
Steiner is definitely daylight bright. Just checked it out outside.
Top Top