Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 9/16/2018 3:02:31 AM EDT
EOTech's patent on sights with a true holographic mechanism (uses a laser instead of an LED) expired a few years ago. As far as I'm aware, the only other company that has since taken advantage of the fact that such designs are now fair game is Vortex with their UH-1. Considering that holographic sights look a lot crisper than normal red dots to people with astigmatism, I would think that more companies would be trying to make similar stuff. Ideally at a cheaper price point or reducing the size and weight.

Are there companies with more options like this in the works? Or is nobody seriously interested in making holographics? My Primary Arms red dot gives me a big blurry starburst pattern unless I turn the brightness down really low, then it starts to look smaller. But the EOTechs I've tried have all looked perfectly crisp. So a low-cost holographic sight, or high-cost holographic sight of similar size and weight to an Aimpoint, would be awesome to me.
Link Posted: 9/16/2018 5:02:55 AM EDT
I don't think we will have anything that will truly rival EOTech for a while. From what I've heard about the Vortex, the EOTech is still a better optic and not for that much more as they're currently listed at 499.
If anything, I'd rather see EOTech pump out newer designs, side buttons on all models, more reticles (ACSS), smaller profiles, and motion activation or a new switches because those buttons don't really do it for me.
Link Posted: 9/16/2018 7:07:45 AM EDT
Meprolight's Trudot is probably going to be your closest option. I don't have astigmatism though so I don't know if that's a solution for you.

I kind of feel bad for eotech. Granted they fudged numbers, but they made it right, and I always liked my 512s.
Link Posted: 9/16/2018 8:59:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2018 9:09:51 AM EDT by demoMouse]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By unpleasant:
Meprolight's Trudot is probably going to be your closest option. I don't have astigmatism though so I don't know if that's a solution for you.

I kind of feel bad for eotech. Granted they fudged numbers, but they made it right, and I always liked my 512s.
View Quote
The DOJ found all their internal email traffic up and down the chain instructing employees to hand select models for testing and explicitly conspiring to cover up their knowledge of said flaws from the DoD. Refunding my civilian purchased sight is ok, but doesn’t make right for conspiracy to sell knowingly fucked up product to the DoD for use in Afghanistan, and covering it up.

Presently the Vortex UH1 is the closest on the market. If you’re in the mood for something SLIGHTLY different, check out the Spitfire AR. It’s one of the best no-mag sights on the market with a ring reticle. It is very fast up close, and the pup in the center is nuts on for shots out to 300.

Honestly, I’m surprised that Trijicon doesn’t make the MRO with their horse-shoe reticle.
Link Posted: 9/16/2018 10:34:57 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By demoMouse:
The DOJ found all their internal email traffic up and down the chain instructing employees to hand select models for testing and explicitly conspiring to cover up their knowledge of said flaws from the DoD. Refunding my civilian purchased sight is ok, but doesn’t make right for conspiracy to sell knowingly fucked up product to the DoD for use in Afghanistan, and covering it up.

Presently the Vortex UH1 is the closest on the market. If you’re in the mood for something SLIGHTLY different, check out the Spitfire AR. It’s one of the best no-mag sights on the market with a ring reticle. It is very fast up close, and the pup in the center is nuts on for shots out to 300.

Honestly, I’m surprised that Trijicon doesn’t make the MRO with their horse-shoe reticle.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By demoMouse:
Originally Posted By unpleasant:
Meprolight's Trudot is probably going to be your closest option. I don't have astigmatism though so I don't know if that's a solution for you.

I kind of feel bad for eotech. Granted they fudged numbers, but they made it right, and I always liked my 512s.
The DOJ found all their internal email traffic up and down the chain instructing employees to hand select models for testing and explicitly conspiring to cover up their knowledge of said flaws from the DoD. Refunding my civilian purchased sight is ok, but doesn’t make right for conspiracy to sell knowingly fucked up product to the DoD for use in Afghanistan, and covering it up.

Presently the Vortex UH1 is the closest on the market. If you’re in the mood for something SLIGHTLY different, check out the Spitfire AR. It’s one of the best no-mag sights on the market with a ring reticle. It is very fast up close, and the pup in the center is nuts on for shots out to 300.

Honestly, I’m surprised that Trijicon doesn’t make the MRO with their horse-shoe reticle.
Yup. Eotech can go sit on the shelf with Sig, Levi, and Nike for brands I'll get used, but won't give the company money.

Steiner R1x might be another option I'm not sure exactly what technology it is.
Link Posted: 9/16/2018 12:50:20 PM EDT
I have a significant astigmatism. Vortex is an awesome company. I tried the Spitfire AR. Reticle was very clear, but the distortion, eye relief, and button placement was a deal breaker.The MRO patrol would be a great optic if not for the ridiculous amount of parallax. POI shifts were significant for me. There's a lot of 1X optics out there. Unfortunately, not many that are truly good.... for me at least. I keep looking for something new, but keep coming back to T2/H2 or EXPS. 2moa dots are distorted in my vision, but in use it doesn't prove to be an issue. The EXPS reticle is a little fuzzy, but not bad. Aimpoint and Eotech are as good as it gets right now.
Link Posted: 9/16/2018 5:33:50 PM EDT
Im just chiming in to point out that not all astimatisms are the same. For my eyes, eotech is by far the worst, most unusable sight I have ever looked through. Was like looking at a bloodshot eye taking up half the window. At least it was uniform lol ;)
Link Posted: 9/16/2018 5:53:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Epiphanes:
Im just chiming in to point out that not all astimatisms are the same. For my eyes, eotech is by far the worst, most unusable sight I have ever looked through. Was like looking at a bloodshot eye taking up half the window. At least it was uniform lol ;)
View Quote
My blur from red dots isn't even uniform. It blurs out for about 6 moa and then blurs diagonally down/left and up/right for another 5-6 moa.
Link Posted: 9/16/2018 9:11:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Brian01:

My blur from red dots isn't even uniform. It blurs out for about 6 moa and then blurs diagonally down/left and up/right for another 5-6 moa.
View Quote
Yeah for me its the same thing with standard red dots, its like a cluster of faint stars that takes up about 15moa or so. The eotech was at least symmetrical.
Link Posted: 9/16/2018 9:51:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2018 10:02:40 PM EDT by GHOS7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By endermend:
I don't think we will have anything that will truly rival EOTech for a while. From what I've heard about the Vortex, the EOTech is still a better optic and not for that much more as they're currently listed at 499.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By endermend:
I don't think we will have anything that will truly rival EOTech for a while. From what I've heard about the Vortex, the EOTech is still a better optic and not for that much more as they're currently listed at 499.
+1, Doesn't seem like there are many Chinese companies capable or willing to produce a similar design.
[b]Originally Posted By unpleasant:[/b

I kind of feel bad for eotech. Granted they fudged numbers, but they made it right, and I always liked my 512s.
True, they did an excellent job making it right considering other companies with "more superior" optics were hiding numbers also, then started producing specs afterwards. Not to mention after the whole debacle independent test showed that all red dot optics had the same issue and Eotech was one of the makes that had the least thermal drift with very few units affected haha.
Link Posted: 9/17/2018 3:22:51 AM EDT
there's the Holosun HS510C for $300, as an alternative to EOTech. don't have any experience with them, but eyeballing them as a low-cost big-window red-dot sight. there's a couple reviews out there.
Link Posted: 9/17/2018 3:47:32 AM EDT
Elcan showed one at SHOT a few years ago, don't know what happened.

I know the battery life is what it is but I wonder if the reticle can be made crisper?
Link Posted: 9/17/2018 12:10:06 PM EDT
I’ve been optimistic for years but have given up and gone back to EOTech.

We can hate on EOT all we want, but NO other company has tried to seriously do what EOTech has done AND make improvements. Yeah sure there are some designs out there and ideas, but nothing realistic that you can buy today that will compete.
Link Posted: 9/17/2018 12:35:39 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 762AR25:
Elcan showed one at SHOT a few years ago, don't know what happened.

I know the battery life is what it is but I wonder if the reticle can be made crisper?
View Quote
The Elcan proved to be too expensive to make if I remember correctly. Either way it is not happening.
Link Posted: 9/17/2018 1:22:24 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rpoL98:
there's the Holosun HS510C for $300, as an alternative to EOTech. don't have any experience with them, but eyeballing them as a low-cost big-window red-dot sight. there's a couple reviews out there.
View Quote
Way too much parallax.
Link Posted: 9/19/2018 12:07:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2018 12:08:06 PM EDT by Steinhatchee]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By endermend:
I don't think we will have anything that will truly rival EOTech for a while. From what I've heard about the Vortex, the EOTech is still a better optic and not for that much more as they're currently listed at 499.
If anything, I'd rather see EOTech pump out newer designs, side buttons on all models, more reticles (ACSS), smaller profiles, and motion activation or a new switches because those buttons don't really do it for me.
View Quote
Looks like some units are at least testing out the vortex
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 9/20/2018 6:17:55 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Steinhatchee:

Looks like some units are at least testing out the vortex
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/451823/9B5B4D74-C4C5-4374-94F1-F2B30CA522AC-676401.JPG
View Quote
"Units"? You're assuming those guys are active .mil?
Link Posted: 9/20/2018 6:28:22 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swimshoot:

"Units"? You're assuming those guys are active .mil?
View Quote
That photo was reported to be from the 10th SFG.
Link Posted: 9/20/2018 7:55:23 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rpoL98:
there's the Holosun HS510C for $300, as an alternative to EOTech. don't have any experience with them, but eyeballing them as a low-cost big-window red-dot sight. there's a couple reviews out there.
View Quote
I have one. Without my glasses, it's pretty bad. With my glasses, it looks crisp and clean to me.
Link Posted: 9/20/2018 8:34:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2018 8:36:33 AM EDT by swimshoot]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Steinhatchee:

That photo was reported to be from the 10th SFG.
View Quote
I'll ask around about that. But, I don't think so.
Link Posted: 9/20/2018 10:28:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/20/2018 5:20:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2018 5:21:13 PM EDT by Bearcat24]
Check out the Sig Romeo5 with dual red dot. Has regular red dot and an eotech red dot. Auto off and on with movement. I like mine on my 300 BO.
Link Posted: 9/21/2018 3:17:22 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VortexOptics:
Arguably the biggest reason for the lack of other holographic weapon sights on the market is the extreme difficulty and complexity that goes into making the holographic system - it's nowhere near... Like... Not even in the same zip code as easy as making a simple reflex sight with a curved lens and an LED emitter. This is also part of the reason you don't see them being overly inexpensive, relatively speaking to red dots. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course and we'd never downplay the extensive pedigree of EOT in civilian, military and law enforcement use, but there are a number of improvements made upon the holographic system as a whole (It's not even remotely similar aside from creating a hologram) in the UH-1 that have been many years in the making. Not the least of which include significantly less thermal drift, significantly less parallax, more than double the battery life and a more inherently durable construction.

The idea of a small holographic sight more closely spec'd (In size) to a micro red dot is an interesting one. Probably the biggest allure to the holographic sights is the fact that you are not looking through any lenses at all as you look through the sight - only "Windows". Thus, you can make the sight picture as large as you want, without experiencing significant image distortion. This is the reason micro red dots are "Micro" and the bigger the sight picture/FOV through a red dot gets, the bigger and longer the overall unit has to get at the same time. Even then, you're still looking through a curved parabolic lens and experiencing some image distortion that sacrifices the "Heads up Display" type feel of a holographic sight. Making a holographic sight smaller wouldn't hurt anything - it would still be a completely distortion-free image, but you're not really taking advantage anymore of the fact that you can get a bigger and clearer sight picture than a red dot.

There's the part about people with astigmatisms, and while holographics tend to have a better track record with those folks' eyes, they not completely "Immune" to the negative effects of an astigmatism. Factor in the fact that any holographic sight is still going to be relatively more expensive than a prism scope, which you can already get about as small as a micro red dot, with a similar reticle and with absolutely no issue at all with an astigmatism, that part starts to become somewhat of a moot point.

Just some things from behind-the-scenes to mull over. - Jimmy H jchamilton@vortexoptics.com
View Quote
very informative discussion, thanks for taking the time to write that up.
Link Posted: 9/21/2018 7:41:01 AM EDT
The Hartman mh1. Not much info but I’ve been eyeing one for awhile now.
Link Posted: 9/22/2018 9:05:58 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By VortexOptics:
Arguably the biggest reason for the lack of other holographic weapon sights on the market is the extreme difficulty and complexity that goes into making the holographic system - it's nowhere near... Like... Not even in the same zip code as easy as making a simple reflex sight with a curved lens and an LED emitter. This is also part of the reason you don't see them being overly inexpensive, relatively speaking to red dots. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course and we'd never downplay the extensive pedigree of EOT in civilian, military and law enforcement use, but there are a number of improvements made upon the holographic system as a whole (It's not even remotely similar aside from creating a hologram) in the UH-1 that have been many years in the making. Not the least of which include significantly less thermal drift, significantly less parallax, more than double the battery life and a more inherently durable construction.

The idea of a small holographic sight more closely spec'd (In size) to a micro red dot is an interesting one. Probably the biggest allure to the holographic sights is the fact that you are not looking through any lenses at all as you look through the sight - only "Windows". Thus, you can make the sight picture as large as you want, without experiencing significant image distortion. This is the reason micro red dots are "Micro" and the bigger the sight picture/FOV through a red dot gets, the bigger and longer the overall unit has to get at the same time. Even then, you're still looking through a curved parabolic lens and experiencing some image distortion that sacrifices the "Heads up Display" type feel of a holographic sight. Making a holographic sight smaller wouldn't hurt anything - it would still be a completely distortion-free image, but you're not really taking advantage anymore of the fact that you can get a bigger and clearer sight picture than a red dot.

There's the part about people with astigmatisms, and while holographics tend to have a better track record with those folks' eyes, they not completely "Immune" to the negative effects of an astigmatism. Factor in the fact that any holographic sight is still going to be relatively more expensive than a prism scope, which you can already get about as small as a micro red dot, with a similar reticle and with absolutely no issue at all with an astigmatism, that part starts to become somewhat of a moot point.

Just some things from behind-the-scenes to mull over. - Jimmy H jchamilton@vortexoptics.com
View Quote
Thanks for taking the time to type that out.

Although a micro-sized holographic would sacrifice the advantage of a large sight picture, would you say that it's difficult to get the mechanisms needed for a holographic to fit into those dimensions?
Link Posted: 9/22/2018 11:19:12 PM EDT
You guys are all missing the point here.

Vortex AMD UH-1. Holo tech. Rugged. MADE IN THE USA. Lifetime warranty.

THE BEST EOTech alternative currently available IMO.
Link Posted: 9/22/2018 11:32:59 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Brian01:

Thanks for taking the time to type that out.

Although a micro-sized holographic would sacrifice the advantage of a large sight picture, would you say that it's difficult to get the mechanisms needed for a holographic to fit into those dimensions?
View Quote
I emailed Vortex about a micro UH1 a few weeks ago and they replied saying that it wasn’t in the “immediate event horizon”
Link Posted: 9/23/2018 1:19:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2018 2:39:37 PM EDT by 762AR25]
I'm eagerly awaiting a holographic sight with two zero settings. Would love that for 300 blk.
Link Posted: 9/23/2018 2:27:47 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 762AR25:
I'm eagerly awaiting a holographic sight with two zero settings. Would love that for 300 blj.
View Quote
That would be pretty cool. Zero one reticle, then switch to another reticle and zero that one. Or have one reticle with two dots that you zero, and then zero the second dot relative to the main dot.

Kinda like the EOTech EXPS2-2, but able to zero the second dot separately.
Link Posted: 9/23/2018 2:58:29 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Brian01:

That would be pretty cool. Zero one reticle, then switch to another reticle and zero that one. Or have one reticle with two dots that you zero, and then zero the second dot relative to the main dot.

Kinda like the EOTech EXPS2-2, but able to zero the second dot separately.
View Quote
I would prefer a button/switch to just have two completley different zero settings. I was pumped up about the green eotechs too but then read that I guess there are problems with NV so there is only going to be an EXPS2 green and not EXPS3.

I'm also still waiting on something official about Eotech's new battery life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on0VWe3m2uc

It is mentioned in this video as well as I guess was at shot:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/01/27/shot-2018-whats-new-eotech/

I got an April MFG EXPS3-0 and the original battery is still going strong. All the specs on their website are still unchanged.
Link Posted: 9/24/2018 8:53:52 AM EDT
Top Top