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Posted: 10/8/2004 6:50:24 PM EST
First let me say that I’ve been reading this forum for about a month now and it is BY FAR one of the BEST information sites on firearms that I’ve ever come across. Kudos to the site admin!

That being said, after two years of refurbishing historic firearms I’ve finally decided to dive head first into the realm of building AR type weapons.

So, without further ado, here’s my dilemma… and you advice would be appreciated.

I’ve already decided on a flat top upper and I’ve already ordered a Rock River Arms stripped lower. I’m going to go with a parts kit for my first build and I have it narrowed down to two outfits; Model 1 and M&A. I’m leaning towards M&A because of the match grade barrel included with their kits. Question one… am I leaning the right way and why or why not?

Second question- for my first build I’m going to go with a carbine. I feel a carbine length rifle would suit a host of needs (home defense, range fun, tactical ease…) but my question is what model do I choose; the M4 type or the C.A.R. type? The only difference I can see is the barrel. What are the pros and cons of each and which would offer greater accuracy if any?

Third question- I have the basic tools any rifle lover needs to work on firearms. However, I have NOTHING specific to an AR. I’ve heard about “rolling pin locks”, funky wrenches, and clamps… what specific tools will I NEED to assemble the kit so I can get to work when the parts arrive?

Fourth question- I plan to mount an Aimpoint scope, a vertical handle, small light and a laser. In your opinion, what’s the best rig for this that’s cost effective? I’ve been thinking about running the “gadgets” off of the flat top with one of those 3-way mount rails and I’m basing this off of center of gravity vs. distributed weight. I’d like a quick target acquisition rig and my train of thought is that having the light and the laser rail off of the hand guard would add more resistance to the rifle swing. Your thoughts on this would help me greatly.

Last question (and it might be a stupid one since I’ve been in the Army for 12 years)- what’s the difference between 5.56mm and .223? Model 1 has options for both on their website and M&A does not… what gives? If there IS a difference, which type of ammo would be cost effective and easier to procure?

That’s it. Thanks in advance, and I hope you guys can come at me with some good advice. Again, awesome site, and I hope I become more involved with it as my experience grows.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:13:44 AM EST
thats a lot of info and a lot depends on opinions.

this site has all of it covered, and although it is an indirect answer........look thru the site-

Industry, Picture thread, Vendor sites, etc and you will see that the questions are all adressed in depth.

as for the ammo----5.56 is a bigger bang, and while the bullet is the same- but weapons built for .223 should not use 5.56, but those built for 5.56 can use both.

you have found THE site for all your AR needs/questions..........and a hearty welcome aboard, Wpaoli!

Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:34:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 4:40:12 AM EST by DM1975]
In my opinion I would stay away for Model 1 Sales, My friend just replaced his upper with a model 1 sales upper and it did not fit right at first, very tight... he had to force the upper onto the lower, next it came with A1 front sights instead of A2, Next he sent back the A1 front sight to get an A2 replacement for it (and had to pay for it even though it was advertised as an A2 sight) and then they lost his money order for it and dicked him around for a month on it. The last time he called them on it they said that they still had not received anything in the mail from him, then later that day the front sight post showed up in the mail... Also, his upper will not feed all ammo he tries to use, it will not feed soft point reliable, and now it is having extracting problems on fired casings. I would look at J&T if I were you.

Now on the M4 or CAR style barrel, that is all up to you, I have had both and neither one outperformed the other.

Tools, for that look at the build it yourself forum on here and there is detailed building instructions that will tell you what you need.

On mounting gadgets, I mount my Surefire and my OTAL laser on my handguard rails. I see no loss in target aquisition. I have used this set up on the reflexive fire course and have had zero ill effects out of it. I mount mine on a YHM 2 piece rail system... Cost of rail $112.00 shipped. I mount my M68 on a regualr QRP mount with spacer, just like we do in the Army and it works fine for me.

And on the 5.56/.223 question... I would go with the 5.56. Look in the ammo oracle and it shows the difference in the chambers of a 5.56 and .223 if I am not mistaken.

Good luck, just for S&G here is a picture of mine (I am very proud of it ) Let us see yours when you are done.

Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:50:27 AM EST
As you are asking for opinions, here are mine FWIW.

Stay away from the budget suppliers. Remember your ABC's andR. That is Armalite, Bushmaster. Colt, and RRA.

Your RRA lower is good. Now put a name brand upper and barrel on it. Plenty of board sponsors sell these parts, and ,many available on the EE as well. You can order from Bushmaster direct if you want their parts. ADCO (and severalothers) are great on RRA parts. Quantico Arms on the Armalite.

I personally like Colt barrels, RRA and Bushie upper receivers, and Bushie bolts.

RRA for lower parts kit is the way to go also.

Post pics when your project is done.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 4:58:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/9/2004 5:00:35 AM EST by Mulliga]

Question one… am I leaning the right way and why or why not?


Hmm. Depends on how much you want to spend. Both companies are fairly similar. Also check out JT Distributing.


the M4 type or the C.A.R. type?


Not much difference, especially accuracy-wise. The 14.5" M4 type with welded FS will allow you to mount a standard bayonet, while the 16" M4 type will allow you to change out muzzle devices while keeping the M4 "look." Also consider lightweight profile barrels.


what specific tools will I NEED to assemble the kit so I can get to work when the parts arrive?


This will tell you the tools you need, under "Necessary Tools" he
AR-15 Primer


what’s the difference between 5.56mm and .223?


Ammo Oracle - All questions answered

BAsically, for a serious rifle, always get an M16 (5.56) chamber.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 2:43:50 PM EST
Thanks, all.

One other question...

Rear sights... who's got 'em, who has them for the best price?

Thanks again, I'll be sure to post the pics of the build once I'm done at the end of the month.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 3:16:57 PM EST
What kind of rear sight you looking for?
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 5:46:54 PM EST
Well, I'll be buying a flat top upper..., so, one that goes on t a flat top :)
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 6:27:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By WPaoli:
Well, I'll be buying a flat top upper..., so, one that goes on t a flat top :)



Obviously you are not looking for any help here so go look for your self.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 6:33:08 PM EST
LMT is great stuff, on a par with the ABCs, for sure. Buy the nicest rifle you are wwilling to pay for. you do get what you pay for, in my opinion.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 6:35:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By DM1975:

Originally Posted By WPaoli:
Well, I'll be buying a flat top upper..., so, one that goes on t a flat top :)



Obviously you are not looking for any help here so go look for your self.



Sorry if that seemed a bit rude but there are about a dozen different rear detachable sights availabnle on the market, what I am asking is what kind are you looking for...
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 6:37:13 PM EST
No difference between the CAR and M4 except the M4 is turned down towards the end and under the handguards.

Buy a complete lower(Stag Arms, Mega, Stinger), complete upper and stock of your choice. Put it together yourself and save $100-200 over buying a whole rifle.

For the upper I recommend Bushmaster or RRA. Be advised RRA only chrome lines their M4 line. You'll want chrome. Both BM and RRA use 5.56 chambers.

You don't need any tools unless you buy a stripped lower and install your own parts kit. In that case you will need a brass punch set and brass/nylon mallet. Also, if you buy a collapsable stock you will need a CAR stock wrench.

For optics just about everybody uses either Eotech or Aimpoint. Check out the optics forum.
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:40:55 PM EST
That's my point... I don't know jack about what's on the market. I want a rear sight I can put on the rifle that's not going to empty my bank account. I was curious if there were any sellers out there that have the best prices. My bad if I seemed sarcastic, was not my intent. 5X5?
Link Posted: 10/9/2004 7:56:08 PM EST
The most common BUIS (Back Up Iron Sight) Is the ARMS #40. Since it's a flip up sight, you can use an optic ahead of it such as a scope or red dot sight and then if your optic goes down you can simply flip it up and shoot through the optic, assuming cowitness. It's approximately $100 shipped.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 3:46:12 AM EST
I use a Knights Armament 300M BUIS, it cost about $140.00 and I could not be happier. There are cheaper out there and it is true you get what you pay for but KAC is a bit over priced on some of there stuff but it was the only BUIS I liked.

And I too didn't mean to sound like a smart ass, just had a bad day is all...
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