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Posted: 9/23/2004 6:44:21 AM EST
I just got off the phone with Phil Seberger and apparently he has found a way to legally circumvent California law so that he can do private transfers of his suppressors. I ordered his 12th Model SPR suppressor for my Mk12 Mod0 SPR rifle and am waiting on paperwork to get this ball rolling.
For those that havent dealt with Phil before he is one stand up guy. I spent almost 45 minutes on the phone with him while he explained the advantages of his can and why they beat the competition. He is also a real talker-especially when it comes to guns and shooting. We also talked at length about the SPR and its developement.
Either way, I thought I would pass on the good news! The best part is, his can is several hundred dollars cheaper than I was expecting.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:57:55 AM EST
Great, Now all I have to do is pick up and move to a suppressor friendly state.

Did I mention that IL sucks!!

Enjoy for those of you that can.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:00:17 AM EST
[thinking to myself]Why do I live in Michigan, again!?!?!?[/thinking to myself]
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:10:46 AM EST
refresh my memory, dont you need some form or pay some tax or something to use em?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:15:07 AM EST
You do need to jump through the appropriate hoops to get one-mainly filling out the BATF From 4 (I think) for transfer, pay the $200 transfer tax and wait for approval, but if they are legal to own in your state you can have one.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:25:22 AM EST
Has he got a web site?
George
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:26:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:38:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By mongo001:
[thinking to myself]Why do I live in Michigan, again!?!?!?[/thinking to myself]



same here dude
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:44:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:46:24 AM EST
I'd be curious to know the pricing.

I'm looking at the Gemtech M4 suppressor right now 'cause I like their bilock mounting system and think it'd be good to have on more than one rifle.

I assume the Ops suppressor you're referring to mounts to the Ops SPR muzzle device?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:49:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:53:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By geocon:
Has he got a web site?
George



www.opsinc.us/



CHRIS
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:55:07 AM EST
very much rated for full auto... they do have a website- don't have the address handy but google it..... if someone has it can you put it on? i'm in a rush....

they're screwed on from what i can tell from looking at them- either to their muzzle break (spr style) or directly to the muzzle threads- I'm not sure about something like the gemtech bilock etc etc....

now just to move to Texas!

-Roth
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:57:29 AM EST
Nice. Too bad I live in MO.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:05:37 AM EST
They show vids on their sight shooting in full auto.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:08:45 AM EST
here is the link:

http://opsinc.us/silencers.php
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:10:17 AM EST
I would like to get one for my 6.8 SPC... I wonder if they make one especially for it?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:36:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 8:37:21 AM EST by Lawman734]
If it was meant to be kept hush hush, Phil never mentioned and he even asked me to put the word out.
Bookhound, I get my Chief to sign the CLEO sign off.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 2:11:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By saojao:
I would like to get one for my 6.8 SPC... I wonder if they make one especially for it?



YES! they sure do. They all attatch via his proprietary break and collar.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 2:24:34 PM EST
This is a joke, right?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 2:35:55 PM EST
tag
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 2:48:34 PM EST
No joke, they have MBS (Muzzle Brake Suppressors) for the 5.56, 6.8 and .30 Cal.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 3:08:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 3:45:55 PM EST

[thinking to myself]Why do I live in Michigan, again!?!?!?[/thinking to myself]



+1 !
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:25:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 6:26:41 PM EST by Cans4you]
Thank you for allowing us to go down range with the best suppressor made. The weapon and suppressor preformed flawlessly. Having Americans like you backing the fighting men of the armed forces has made an immeasurable difference in this war on terrorism. Thank all your employees for me and let them know that we are very grateful for all of OP's INC's support of the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

An e-mail from an active SOCOM unit to OPSINC recently.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:44:42 PM EST
Anybody know how the managed to get the cans out of Kalifornia?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:48:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 7:49:02 PM EST by Cans4you]
He's got mad pull when the right people are in office.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:31:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cans4you:
He's got mad pull when the right people are in office.



Word.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:39:42 PM EST
can i get some info on the approx prices on these? also, when you sign the batf stuff, what rights do you give up? can they just come in an search your home anytime?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:43:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 8:50:14 PM EST by Gunbert]

Originally Posted By TheRicker:
Hmmm, I was told to keep my mouth shut until this was meant to be public...





Phil told me the same thing (about the can's now being available), but kept quiet about who the vendor was going to be. I guessed that Wes over at MSTN would be the one, but apparently not. All Phil said was to 'search the web, you'll find them'.

Shit I want' one so bad I may nail my 401K to pay for an SPR upper setup. Damn you Phil Seburger, that's supposed to be my retirement fund!!!
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:44:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By bob332:
can i get some info on the approx prices on these? also, when you sign the batf stuff, what rights do you give up? can they just come in an search your home anytime?



No.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:59:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 9:04:12 PM EST by bob332]

Originally Posted By jblachly:

Originally Posted By bob332:
can i get some info on the approx prices on these? also, when you sign the batf stuff, what rights do you give up? can they just come in an search your home anytime?



No.



i should have asked this in the first question, is there a link to the form? is the stamp just for a more in-depth background check? also, what is an approximage db for an ar15 223/5.56 without suppresion?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:04:13 PM EST
Here's some pics of the Mk 12 can (on the Mk12 SPR no less ) I met Phil at the SHOT show this year and he let me and EricE try out one of his cans. The thing was awesome, and as soon as I find a vendor I'm getting one.


















I will mention that Phil didn't like the idea of a QD system... so I don't think you'll be seeing one of them anytime soon.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:07:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By bob332:

Originally Posted By jblachly:

Originally Posted By bob332:
can i get some info on the approx prices on these? also, when you sign the batf stuff, what rights do you give up? can they just come in an search your home anytime?



No.



i should have asked this in the first question, is there a link to the form? is the stamp just for a more in-depth background check? also, what is an approximage db for an ar15 223/5.56 without suppresion?




You pay the stamp to transfer the suppressor, much the same way you pay a transfer tax when you buy or sell a house. You have to have a local LEO chief or sherriff sign off that you can have it and the FBI does a background check on you, at no extra cost .
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:07:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 9:13:00 PM EST by Cans4you]

www.atf.gov/dcof/index.htm
This looks familar, and yes 24/ 7 they can knock on (not knock in) the door to make sure it is under the roof of that address with it's paperwork
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:10:03 PM EST
do they have the right to search your residence, or could you just keep them outside and go get it an show them?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:16:11 PM EST
It's an under the roof deal if i remember correctly. On the form you give an address to where it is going to be, which in most cases is in your residence, then it has to be secured and have it's paper work with it as well.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:23:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cans4you:
It's an under the roof deal if i remember correctly. On the form you give an address to where it is going to be, which in most cases is in your residence, then it has to be secured and have it's paper work with it as well.



when you say secured does that mean in a gun/house safe? also, when i was going to go shooting, do i take the paperwork with it?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:24:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By bob332:
do they have the right to search your residence, or could you just keep them outside and go get it an show them?




Owning a MG or Suppressor does NOT remove your 4th amendment rights, nor does it give the BATFE the right to search your house anytime they want.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:26:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By bob332:

Originally Posted By Cans4you:
It's an under the roof deal if i remember correctly. On the form you give an address to where it is going to be, which in most cases is in your residence, then it has to be secured and have it's paper work with it as well.



when you say secured does that mean in a gun/house safe? also, when i was going to go shooting, do i take the paperwork with it?




You should always have a copy of your form 4 whenever you have your toys out... you probably wouldn't end up in trouble for not having them, but the police would be really sketchy about it if you didn't have some immediate proof they were registered. Save yourself the headache and make lots of copies.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:15:23 PM EST
Are you sure they don't have the right to ask you to prove the item is at the address on the form (unless you are away with it) 24 / 7?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 10:36:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 10:39:13 PM EST by bob332]
my biggest concern would be that it allows them entry regardless of what i say. i had a search warrant served on my house a couple of years ago for some b.s. allegations (seriously) and it kind of left a bad taste in my mouth and made me really wonder about the "justice" system... i just don't want for them to have a signed paper from me that allows them full access to search my home anytime they want....
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:01:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By bob332:
my biggest concern would be that it allows them entry regardless of what i say. i had a search warrant served on my house a couple of years ago for some b.s. allegations (seriously) and it kind of left a bad taste in my mouth and made me really wonder about the "justice" system... i just don't want for them to have a signed paper from me that allows them full access to search my home anytime they want....



If they have a signed paper from a judge they can do whatever they want. But no, they are not going to come knocking on your door.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:43:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By jblachly:

Originally Posted By bob332:
my biggest concern would be that it allows them entry regardless of what i say. i had a search warrant served on my house a couple of years ago for some b.s. allegations (seriously) and it kind of left a bad taste in my mouth and made me really wonder about the "justice" system... i just don't want for them to have a signed paper from me that allows them full access to search my home anytime they want....



If they have a signed paper from a judge they can do whatever they want. But no, they are not going to come knocking on your door.



i definately undestand that, and in my case when this happend a couple of years ago, the judge went by what the leo thought on nothing more than hear say, not the facts. i just don't want to automatically give them entry by signing some form for a suppressor. thanks for all the info :)
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 12:54:50 PM EST
40 dB on several of the 5.56 cans...

Oh wait here is the fine print:

Measurements taken at 96 feet in front of the weapon.

What a joke.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 1:05:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
40 dB on several of the 5.56 cans...

Oh wait here is the fine print:

Measurements taken at 96 feet in front of the weapon.

What a joke.



i am a noob, are the reading usually taken closer? also, what is an unsupressed db reading? 150? 130? 100' is pretty far.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 1:34:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
40 dB on several of the 5.56 cans...

Oh wait here is the fine print:

Measurements taken at 96 feet in front of the weapon.

What a joke.


Well if I'm reading the site right it says 40 dB attenuation. That, and if the reading is taken at 96 feet it would mean it's 40 dB quieter from that far away. Imagine how much quieter it would be from right next to it.

????????????
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 1:40:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By bob332:

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
40 dB on several of the 5.56 cans...

Oh wait here is the fine print:

Measurements taken at 96 feet in front of the weapon.

What a joke.



i am a noob, are the reading usually taken closer? also, what is an unsupressed db reading? 150? 130? 100' is pretty far.



AFAIK, there is no "official standard", but 96 feet in front of the weapon is a pretty useless place for the measurement. Most folks do it 1 meter in front and 1 meter to side. Just pointing out it is not apples to apples with others, and that is why Gem-Tech and others are no longer providing dB numbers.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 2:05:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 2:05:47 PM EST by IndOperator1]

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

Originally Posted By bob332:

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
40 dB on several of the 5.56 cans...

Oh wait here is the fine print:

Measurements taken at 96 feet in front of the weapon.

What a joke.



i am a noob, are the reading usually taken closer? also, what is an unsupressed db reading? 150? 130? 100' is pretty far.



AFAIK, there is no "official standard", but 96 feet in front of the weapon is a pretty useless place for the measurement. Most folks do it 1 meter in front and 1 meter to side. Just pointing out it is not apples to apples with others, and that is why Gem-Tech and others are no longer providing dB numbers.



It would truly suck to be in front of a weapon when it is discharged. At the 1 meter range I doubt that they would miss you!

IO1
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 2:09:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By PlethoraGreen:

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
40 dB on several of the 5.56 cans...

Oh wait here is the fine print:

Measurements taken at 96 feet in front of the weapon.

What a joke.


Well if I'm reading the site right it says 40 dB attenuation. That, and if the reading is taken at 96 feet it would mean it's 40 dB quieter from that far away. Imagine how much quieter it would be from right next to it.

????????????




You're telling me "the closer I get to a gun, the quieter it is" ? THINK, McFly!
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 3:54:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 4:56:22 PM EST by Cans4you]

40 dB on several of the 5.56 cans...

Oh wait here is the fine print:

Measurements taken at 96 feet in front of the weapon.

What a joke.



The best way to solve this is to organize a place to meet and shoot all the different can's available.
to see for yourselfs what can's sound is the loudest and travels the furthest.

OPSINC cans are no joke, they were developed for use with full velocity ammunition and are the most durable and accurate on the market, they are among the most quiet at the muzzle and there sound disapates more quickly then any other. Some of the best Operators from each service from this country and others pay for these cans with their own money because they prefer them.

The measurement taken at 96 feet in front of the weapon was done to show the sound is 1/100 of what it was at the muzzle. There is alot of controversy about the the correct way to measure db from a weapon, very few people know what their talking about. Just getting off the phone with people who work closely with proving grounds on this subject assured me we are not informed enough to discuss it knowledgeably.

If you want to argue the mathamatic dynamics of sound attenuation and the purpose for the types of equipment used in differentiating all the sounds that are actually occuring so true readings can be taken, we better get some very educated people in on this topic.




what is an approximage db for an ar15 223/5.56 without suppresion?


M193 / 5.56 6' to the left of the muzzle is approximately 165db.


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