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Posted: 9/25/2004 1:20:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 3:27:52 PM EDT by thezman]
This is what I used to measure the base to shoulder dimensions of the ammo. When the zeros line up on the mic, the case is at the minimum ANSI level of dimension "A" as shown in the pic. Substitute the 30-06 numbers in the drawing with the .223 numbers, 1.4636 min to 1.4736 max. The case in the pic (Q3131) is .003" smaller than minimum.

Now for the data.
20 rounds measured unless noted otherwise.

RCBS Precision Mic
Using the mic and 1.464" as the minimum dimension A.
Shortest - 1.458"
Longest - 1.462"
Extreme spread .004'"
All rounds were under the minimum spec.
I also took all 20 rounds and dropped them into 2 barrels(one Bushy 5.56 and an Model 1 Sales 5.56 chamber) and tried to rotate a stripped bolt on them. Bolt locked up with ease.

Cartridge over all length
Recommended OAL 2.260"
Shortest loaded round - 2.245"
Longest loaded round - 2.250"
E.S. - .005"
All rounds were under spec.

Loaded round weight
Lightest round - 178.6 grains
Heaviest round - 184.0 grains
E.S. - 5.4 grains

Empty case weight
Lightest case - 99 grains
Heaviest case - 103 grains
E.S. - 4 grains

Empty case length
10 rounds measured
Shortest case - 1.749"
Longest case - 1.755"
E.S. - .006"
All under maximum case length of 1.760"

Powder charge weight
10 rounds measured
Lightest charge - 24.7 grains
Heaviest charge - 25.2 grains
E.S. - .5 grain

Projectile weight
10 rounds measured
Lightest tip - 54.5 grains
Heaviest tip - 55 grains
E.S - .5 grains

Bullet diameter
10 rounds measured
.2235" to .224"

Chronograph data
10 shots fired @ 65 degrees F.
16" Bushy M-4
Low - 2976 fps.
High - 3137 fps.
Avg - 3036 fps.
E.S. - 161 fps.
S.D. - 47.22

In order of firing:

We­ll those are the numbers I came up with on a sampling of 20 rounds. YMMV

The only thing that has me concerned is the extreme spread of the powder charge. The one half grain varience could easily explain the high extreme spread in velocity figures.

You guys can formulate your own opinions. I will neither recommend for or against using this ammo.

The fine print: I aint responsible for nothin'

PS. My head hurts.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 10:06:25 PM EDT

Thanks for the data and efforts!!!!

The high ES. and SD. combined with the Charge weight ES. is making more sense now.

I havn't pulled any of the ammo sent to me yet... but now that I have something to compare to, I might.

Overall between your numbers and my own , I see a small trend.

This stuff is NOT consistent in the sense that we expect it to be.

The term "Loose" comes to mind.

Still, Troy obviously got some out of dimension cases in his batch that could potentially cause safety issues.

If all of this ammo is from the same Lot, the term "Lot" means nothing when it is applied to this stuff.

Something still ain't right.


Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:45:54 AM EDT

This ammo was sent to me by Troy, it was from his lot.

I'm gonna do the same test with some Q loads and compare some figures.

Link Posted: 9/27/2004 10:51:32 PM EDT

Frankly I am more than a bit perplexed.

The stuff I got was dimensionally correct, but exhibited the down range performance of less than acceptable loadings.

The ammo Troy got was not dimensionally correct, and has lower numbers in the regard of external variation.

Yet it's supposed to be the same "Lot".

Again, I completely suspect that the concept of a "Lot" is lost with the Greeks.

I also suspect that they can do better, and easily.

Makes me wonder what it is that our Greek allies are issuing in support of Military operations.

The optimist in me trusts it is better than this stuff.

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 7:14:54 AM EDT

The only red flag for me on this ammo was the varience in the charge weights.
It's pretty consistant in all other measurements except M/T case weight which varied by 4% and accordingly, the total loaded round weights.

In the 10 rounds that I fired, I saw no signs of excessive pressure and all primers looked fine.
My highest recorded velocity was 3137 fps, which I don't consider to be over max.

If you combine the worst case scenario, thicker(heavier case), with heaviest powder charge, I still don't think this ammo will be excessive in pressure.

I didn't have enough ammo to run accuracy tests, but as we all know just because it shoots bad in one gun doesn't mean it's going to shoot bad in another.

I would use this ammo for blasting, but wouldn't consider it to be the best choice for SHTF ammo.

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 10:58:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:44:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RS39:

also miss Zman's radio show from my Harrisburg days..

Am I famous and don't know about it?

It wasn't me, honest. And I'm 5 miles west of Harrisburg.

Link Posted: 9/28/2004 11:48:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2004 12:07:53 PM EDT by cyoungso]
Just a few notes on this ammo. I did a little digging on the net.
The ammunition is made by Olympic Industry SA, of Axioupoli, Kilkis, Greece. The owner, Valilios Papadopoulos (ref; SHOT Show 2004 directory) is mentioned in an online article as having purchased ARL loading equipment from the Lugansk plant in the Ukraine. They seem to imply that it was a shady deal made with the managers at Lugansk.


I suppose that maybe Olympic is an upstart company with little experience, thus the quality problems?

Greek Powder and Cartridge Co. (PYRKAL) are the manfacturers of NATO spec ammo for the Helenic (Greek) armed forces.


Link Posted: 9/28/2004 12:44:29 PM EDT
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