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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/8/2010 5:54:27 PM EDT
I'm looking for a real basic, entry-level target/varmint AR. I've been looking at these two models but can't decide on which one, an Olympic K16 or DPMS Panther Lo-Pro. Both rifles have crowned 4140 16" 1:9 button rifled bull barrels, flat top uppers and picatinny gas blocks, A2 stocks, and come in at about $650-$700. The only differences I can tell between the two is that the Olympic has already has a dust cover and free floating forend installed whereas the DPMS does not. I'm aware they have parkerized bolts and non-chromed chambers, but since this is exclusively for casual range time and hunting trips I'm not really worried about it. I'll be perfectly happy with either if it can hold 1 MOA with good ammo and a better trigger since I'll only be shooting out to 300 yards with it at most.

So quality wise, and taking customer service and warranties into account, which of these two rifles would you recommend?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:06:28 PM EDT
Out of those 2 I would go with the DPMS.

They have a better rep for accuracy in their varmint rifles I believe.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:10:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 6:26:01 PM EDT by ArmedSuspect]
seriously?




dude, for $100 dollars more you can get a Spikes M4LE and it's 100% better than both of the other two combined. it's $100, not $1000. save up for a few more weeks and get a quality rifle. i don't buy this *it's all i can afford* thing. i understand not wanting to spend a fortune just to plink a few times a year but for $100 difference you can get a rifle that's WAYYYYY better.

have you considered sights? how exactly are you going to shoot that new rifle? even the cheapest quality sights you can buy will run you nearly $100. for that price you can get the Spikes and it has an A3 handle or a MagPul MBUS. just sayin...

Oly has shit for customer service. DPMS is better but it has been my experience that they are super slow at it.

look at ALL of the Spikes vs. *insert brand* threads. then look for the *Oly* and *DPMS* threads and see what you get.



edit:
this is the best advice that i can give, this is exactly what i tell my customers. i DO NOT sell OLY products in my shop... nor do i sell DPMS. good luck with your decision.

edit:
Spikes vs DPMS thread
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:17:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedSuspect:
seriously?

dude, for $100 dollars more you can get a Spikes M4LE and it's 100% better than both of the other two combined. it's $100, not $1000. save up for a few more weeks and get a quality rifle. i don't buy this *it's all i can afford* thing. i understand not wanting to spend a fortune just to plink a few times a year but for $100 difference you can get a rifle that's WAYYYYY better.

have you considered sights? how exactly are you going to shoot that new rifle? even the cheapest quality sights you can buy will run you nearly $100. for that price you can get the Spikes and it has an A3 handle or a MagPul MBUS. just sayin...

Oly has shit for customer service. DPMS is better but it has been my experience that they are super slow at it.

look at ALL of the Spikes vs. *insert brand* threads. then look for the *Oly* and *DPMS* threads and see what you get.



edit:
this is the best advice that i can give, this is exactly what i tell my customers. i DO NOT sell OLY products in my shop... nor do i sell DPMS. good luck with your decision.

edit:
Spikes vs DPMS thread

I agree. Quality stuff has come down in price so much that there's no real reason to skimp.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:44:46 PM EDT
Outkast,
You will never, and I mean never, get the Spikes rifle to shoot with the Oly K16. And I doubt it will shoot with the DPMS either. Get what you feel most comfortable with.
Save a few dollar more and buy the optics that you want if you go with one of the flat tops. Fixed sights are certainly nice but not a reason to base your choice on.
Barrel twist rate is another story. The 2 rifles you asked about both come with a 1/9 twist. If you plan on feeding your rifle heavier bullets than you may want to go tothe slower twist rate.
If you are going to just shoot 55gr plinking / military surpluss / buy everywhere ammo, then the 1/9 is better for you.
Get what you like and go shoot.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:34:56 PM EDT
Sounds like DPMS is the winner based on my question of customer service, quality, and warranty.

Now, let me clarify... Though I'll never claim to be an expert, I'm not new to this game. I have many "real" guns, including other ARs. Obviously, if I'm looking at bull barreled and crowned flat-top rifles, Spikes has nothing that fits that bill, and clearly, I don't need or want iron sights on this rifle, or I wouldn't have my sights set on ones with picatinny gas blocks... I have an M-223 and PEPR waiting to be put on the thing already, and I emphasized my uses for it as just plinking and varmint slaughter, so a 1:9 twist is not detrimental because I'll be shooting nothing but cheap ball ammo and light hunting rounds through it.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:52:16 PM EDT
Outkast,
Good choice and good reply.
Happy shooting.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 12:09:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2010 12:11:43 AM EDT by Fields_Overseer]
Originally Posted By ArmedSuspect:
seriously?




dude, for $100 dollars more you can get a Spikes M4LE and it's 100% better than both of the other two combined. it's $100, not $1000. save up for a few more weeks and get a quality rifle. i don't buy this *it's all i can afford* thing. i understand not wanting to spend a fortune just to plink a few times a year but for $100 difference you can get a rifle that's WAYYYYY better.

have you considered sights? how exactly are you going to shoot that new rifle? even the cheapest quality sights you can buy will run you nearly $100. for that price you can get the Spikes and it has an A3 handle or a MagPul MBUS. just sayin...

Oly has shit for customer service. DPMS is better but it has been my experience that they are super slow at it.

look at ALL of the Spikes vs. *insert brand* threads. then look for the *Oly* and *DPMS* threads and see what you get.



edit:
this is the best advice that i can give, this is exactly what i tell my customers. i DO NOT sell OLY products in my shop... nor do i sell DPMS. good luck with your decision.

edit:
Spikes vs DPMS thread


yup, the carry handle drops it to a $50 difference.

of those 2, maybe the dpms, but i dont see either holding 1moa... could be wrong though.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 3:25:22 AM EDT
I usually keep out of these opinion based replies. But since I actually own an Oly K16 thought I'd chime in. I have been using it with a Leupold VX-1 3-9 in a Model 1 one piece mount(built like a tank) and it shoots 1moa with crap ammo - ala wolf or pmc bronze. Given I only have the option of 100yd shooting this rifle has been dead accurate for me. No matter what though, the people who've never touched the product are going to be more outspoken. As for customer service I cannot give an opinion since I haven't had any issue.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 3:37:58 AM EDT
Olympic makes very accurate barrels.












Unfortunately, everything else they make sucks.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 4:42:47 AM EDT
I'm not super affectionate towards either brand... But if I *had* to choose I'd always pick DPMS over Olympic Arms. Most places around here have stopped carrying Oly rifles because of all the people that come back with problems.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 4:58:48 AM EDT

i'll openly admit that i didn't look at the two rifles that you asked about before i gave my advice. the two companies are low enough down that i'm not overly familiar with their lineup. that said...

Stag M6 for $944
RRA Varmint for $994
Bushmaster V-match for $934

or since you have other AR's, take the $700 and buy a quality upper receiver. the upper from the rifles i just listed should run you in the $700 neighborhood.

for about $800 you can have a 16" SS Noveske barrel, YHM FF, CMT receiver, quality BCG and basic CH.

for just over $700 you can build with a Sabre Defence 18" SS fluted barrel here, add upper, BCG, CH, gas block / tube, bird cage, YHM FF and call it a day.



ALL of these options are better than DPMS or Oly.

Link Posted: 9/9/2010 7:09:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By durabo:
Out of those 2 I would go with the DPMS.

They have a better rep for accuracy in their varmint rifles I believe.


Incorrect. The Oly will outshoot the DPMS all day. They make very accurate barrels, prolly the most accurate off the shelf budget shooter, but like one other poster said, just about every other part they make is not very good.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 9:30:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2010 9:34:36 AM EDT by 0uTkAsT]
Originally Posted By ArmedSuspect:
or sice you have other AR's, take the $700 and buy a quality upper receiver. the upper from the rifles i just listed should run you in the $700 neighborhood.

for about $800 you can have a 16" SS Noveske barrel, YHM FF, CMT receiver, quality BCG and basic CH.

for just over $700 you can build with a Sabre Defence 18" SS fluted barrel here, add upper, BCG, CH, gas block / tube, bird cage, YHM FF and call it a day.


Thanks for the honest reply. I know where you're coming from and I can appreciate trying to steer someone away from a bottom of the barrel product. The only thing keeping me from going this route is because my other ARs are a dedicated SBR patrol rifle and a pistol. I could use the pistol lower (or the SBR's for that matter) but changing stocks a several times a month doesn't sound like a good use of my time (I strongly prefer fixed stocks for shooting prone and off a bench), and at $650 for the DPMS, I figured it would do well enough for my intended use until I either rebuild it or sell it and get something better. Besides, it never hurts to have another lower, as I've found out the hard way.

Just letting you know where I'm coming from.

Thanks again everyone.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 9:54:33 AM EDT
I have a K16 and a K16SST...I have Oly's in 5.45 and 7.62x39 also. I have dealt with their CS and it has been outstanding. I would love any naysayer of Oly to come and shoot mine...smooth, accurate, reliable. I have not had a rifle induced malf with my Oly's! I personally don't see why NOT to go with Olympic!
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 9:56:22 AM EDT
I have an Oly K16 and I love it. Not a single issue out of it...EVER.

Link Posted: 9/9/2010 10:48:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2010 10:49:10 AM EDT by Jeep297]
Oly is total junk and DPMS is on the very low end. Do yourself a favor and save up until you can afford a BCM which has about every configuration you could ever want and significantly higher quality for not a lot more. I am another one of those who doesn't buy the "it's all I can afford" routine. Yeah, maybe for the moment but continue saving until you can buy something to be proud of/worth having.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 12:02:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2010 12:09:25 PM EDT by Thefryzone]
Originally Posted By TJRoush:
I have a K16 and a K16SST...I have Oly's in 5.45 and 7.62x39 also. I have dealt with their CS and it has been outstanding. I would love any naysayer of Oly to come and shoot mine...smooth, accurate, reliable. I have not had a rifle induced malf with my Oly's! I personally don't see why NOT to go with Olympic!


With that said, if you if you mine enough coal you might get a diamond every once and a while. And you say you dont see a reason why not to go with Oly. Here is the #1 reason. They have the worst reputation out on the market along with Hesse and Vulcan. And good luck selling them if the need ever occurs.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 12:28:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2010 12:31:39 PM EDT by 0uTkAsT]
Originally Posted By Jeep297:
Oly is total junk and DPMS is on the very low end. Do yourself a favor and save up until you can afford a BCM which has about every configuration you could ever want and significantly higher quality for not a lot more. I am another one of those who doesn't buy the "it's all I can afford" routine. Yeah, maybe for the moment but continue saving until you can buy something to be proud of/worth having.

Who said anything about not being able to afford something better? For the third time, this is NOT my only rifle and it will just be used as a plinker and not much more. It won't be shot enough to break something, let alone be abused, relied on in life-and-death situations, used in competitions, shot excessively before being cleaned, etc. Why would I pay several hundred dollars more for something else when all I need it to do is occasionally shoot straight?

I posted my question "which of the two and why" because I know they're both low-tier ARs and I have no experience with either DPMS or Olympic and I wanted the best cheapo $650 rifle for the money, that's all.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 4:17:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Thefryzone:
Originally Posted By TJRoush:
I have a K16 and a K16SST...I have Oly's in 5.45 and 7.62x39 also. I have dealt with their CS and it has been outstanding. I would love any naysayer of Oly to come and shoot mine...smooth, accurate, reliable. I have not had a rifle induced malf with my Oly's! I personally don't see why NOT to go with Olympic!


With that said, if you if you mine enough coal you might get a diamond every once and a while. And you say you dont see a reason why not to go with Oly. Here is the #1 reason. They have the worst reputation out on the market along with Hesse and Vulcan. And good luck selling them if the need ever occurs.


Hmmm....seems to be alot of Oly owners in this thread that love their rifles! Times change, perhaps the perception of "bad Oly's" is due for a change??

I have 7 of them...not for sale.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 4:37:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 0uTkAsT:
Originally Posted By ArmedSuspect:
or sice you have other AR's, take the $700 and buy a quality upper receiver. the upper from the rifles i just listed should run you in the $700 neighborhood.

for about $800 you can have a 16" SS Noveske barrel, YHM FF, CMT receiver, quality BCG and basic CH.

for just over $700 you can build with a Sabre Defence 18" SS fluted barrel here, add upper, BCG, CH, gas block / tube, bird cage, YHM FF and call it a day.


Thanks for the honest reply. I know where you're coming from and I can appreciate trying to steer someone away from a bottom of the barrel product. The only thing keeping me from going this route is because my other ARs are a dedicated SBR patrol rifle and a pistol. I could use the pistol lower (or the SBR's for that matter) but changing stocks a several times a month doesn't sound like a good use of my time (I strongly prefer fixed stocks for shooting prone and off a bench), and at $650 for the DPMS, I figured it would do well enough for my intended use until I either rebuild it or sell it and get something better. Besides, it never hurts to have another lower, as I've found out the hard way.

Just letting you know where I'm coming from.

Thanks again everyone.


no prob brother. i just see customers once or twice a week that didn't get good information the *first time*. these guys end up with guns that they don't really want for one reason or another or they get a gun that's less than 100%. i try to do my best to steer guys in the right direction... the one that's best for them.

good luck with your choices.




Link Posted: 9/9/2010 5:31:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Originally Posted By durabo:
Out of those 2 I would go with the DPMS.

They have a better rep for accuracy in their varmint rifles I believe.


Incorrect. The Oly will outshoot the DPMS all day. They make very accurate barrels, prolly the most accurate off the shelf budget shooter, but like one other poster said, just about every other part they make is not very good.


Word.

Thanks for the heads up, haven't paid much attention to Olympics rep other than alot of people hate on them for multiple things.

And I have heard that DPMS makes some good barrels in their varmint lines.

Learn something new everyday.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 5:33:52 PM EDT
Question... why not just "plink" with one of your other rifles?

The expensive part of shooting is the ammo, not any rifle.

I wish you the best of luck, and out of your choices, it's the luck of the draw! (we've got both in the family!)
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 11:46:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2010 11:46:50 AM EDT by Jeep297]
Originally Posted By 0uTkAsT:
Originally Posted By Jeep297:
Oly is total junk and DPMS is on the very low end. Do yourself a favor and save up until you can afford a BCM which has about every configuration you could ever want and significantly higher quality for not a lot more. I am another one of those who doesn't buy the "it's all I can afford" routine. Yeah, maybe for the moment but continue saving until you can buy something to be proud of/worth having.

Who said anything about not being able to afford something better? For the third time, this is NOT my only rifle and it will just be used as a plinker and not much more. It won't be shot enough to break something, let alone be abused, relied on in life-and-death situations, used in competitions, shot excessively before being cleaned, etc. Why would I pay several hundred dollars more for something else when all I need it to do is occasionally shoot straight?

I posted my question "which of the two and why" because I know they're both low-tier ARs and I have no experience with either DPMS or Olympic and I wanted the best cheapo $650 rifle for the money, that's all.


I apologize if I offended you but buying low quality is something I always avoid at this point in my life, even for a plinker. It's just not worth it in the end to me and in a case like this I'd rather save an extra $150 to get me into a BCM or something similar. However if I had to choose between the two it would be the DPMS hands down. I don't consider Oly to be a viable option just as I don't see Hesse/Vulcan/Blackthorne/Whateve the hell they are calling themselves these days.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 12:37:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TJRoush:
Originally Posted By Thefryzone:
Originally Posted By TJRoush:
I have a K16 and a K16SST...I have Oly's in 5.45 and 7.62x39 also. I have dealt with their CS and it has been outstanding. I would love any naysayer of Oly to come and shoot mine...smooth, accurate, reliable. I have not had a rifle induced malf with my Oly's! I personally don't see why NOT to go with Olympic!


With that said, if you if you mine enough coal you might get a diamond every once and a while. And you say you dont see a reason why not to go with Oly. Here is the #1 reason. They have the worst reputation out on the market along with Hesse and Vulcan. And good luck selling them if the need ever occurs.


Hmmm....seems to be alot of Oly owners in this thread that love their rifles! Times change, perhaps the perception of "bad Oly's" is due for a change??

I have 7 of them...not for sale.


Some people eat shit and drink their own urine too.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 2:34:55 PM EDT
The amount of gun-snobbery is stifling. The most out-spoken people against Oly seem to be the same that have never owned or shot an Oly. Chevy vs Ford is more civil. Infidel74 - your comment to TJRoush is just dick-headed to the 10th degree. If you've never owned or used the products in question - please STFU. Your opinion based on reputations isn't worth anything to anyone.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 3:40:48 PM EDT
Infidel-74,
You sound ridiculous and childish.
If you can't add any informed or educated comments please refrain from posting.

Link Posted: 9/10/2010 3:51:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IcarusSyndrome:
The amount of gun-snobbery is stifling. The most out-spoken people against Oly seem to be the same that have never owned or shot an Oly. Chevy vs Ford is more civil. Infidel74 - your comment to TJRoush is just dick-headed to the 10th degree. If you've never owned or used the products in question - please STFU. Your opinion based on reputations isn't worth anything to anyone.


I've shot and been around enough Oly's at the range to know they are complete junk when their are so many better options out there, not to mention that if a company has a bad reputation it's usually for good reason (especially one as bad as Oly and Hesse/Vulcan/Blackthorne). If someone else doesn't feel like heeding the warning and want to waste their money that's on them. I never heard anyone who's respected in the industry ever say a good thing about Oly, that's called a clue. I could care less that some random people own a few that actually work while they plink at the range. I think it a great thing that we have so many companies making AR's now but Oly and Hesse/etc are the exception to the rule. In reality they deserve to be out of the business altogether for their complete lack of quality, quality control, and lack of desire to do any better.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 4:45:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IcarusSyndrome:
The amount of gun-snobbery is stifling. The most out-spoken people against Oly seem to be the same that have never owned or shot an Oly. Chevy vs Ford is more civil. Infidel74 - your comment to TJRoush is just dick-headed to the 10th degree. If you've never owned or used the products in question - please STFU. Your opinion based on reputations isn't worth anything to anyone.


I owned a Oly b/c I got it at such a good price. Utter garbage, biggest firearm regret I've had. Horrible workmanship and failed to reliably function. In the world of firearms, much like electronics and cars, you pay for what you get. I want to be amazed that I still see these threads. But then I sit back and realize that most of these guys asking, they don't know much about AR's. It is our job to educate them. In the world of firearms, I (and many, many others) have learned the Buy Cheap, Buy Twice principle.

I'm not saying you need to go out and buy a KAC or Noveske, but there are MANY reasonably priced alternatives to inferior manufacturers. I, personally am a big believer in BCM, but there are lots of good alternatives out there - RRA, DD, Colt, Spikes, LMT, etc etc. They are only slightly more expensive than the bad manufacturers.

Do yourself a favor and spend the extra $100-200-300. I think you will be happier and more satisfied in the long run.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:04:44 PM EDT
I have shot many Oly's, My dad loves them for some reason. I have fixed,repaired,replaced with better parts,sent back,sent back again,etc. I have many years of dealing with those shitheads in that sanford and son shithole they call a factory with all the dope smoking hillbillys they employ.
I have more than enough experience with them to say whatever I please. I have seen firsthand the shit they sell,the customer service sucks,the owner sucks,the son who he is turning the business over to doesn't even like guns much.
I can go on and on. Most of you probably won't believe what I say. I have shot , seen and dealt with them on an industry level for many years. Now anything coming from them gets refused if known, sent back when opened.
Fuck Oly.
How anyone can come here and say good things about them is beyond me. Kinda like saying obama,pelosi, and reid are doing wonderful things for our country.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:23:39 PM EDT
I had a CAR15 that was o ne of the 1st Olympic arms rifles. Do yourself a favor. Any other brand including Daisy will do but dont waste your time with Oly if you plan to shoot it.
I would take a single shot chipmunk 22lr 1st.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:41:56 PM EDT
no problems with my oly. Its a tack driver too
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:44:31 PM EDT
I am not saying that apples don't leave the factory,Why chance it with all that is out there now. Too many company's to buy that.
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