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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 6/9/2003 6:30:47 AM EDT
Well, I was at the range yesterday attempting to address the problems I was having with the 9mm upper doubling and tripling. I went through about 50 rounds and started to experience some serious jams. I noticed my extractor was missing in action. I found half of it broken on the ground, and the rear half was still pinned in place. The spring was gone, however. It looks as if it broke where the spring recess was milled into it.

I'm debating whether to order a new one from Olympic or just cut down an AR extractor.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:27:01 AM EDT
Hello my fellow triple burst friend. I am sorry to hear about your extractor. I have just started to tinker with my setup. Checked bolt face but it is as smoth as babies behind. Am thinking of ordering another bolt from OLY if it does not solve problem atleast have a SPARE in case my extractor breaks also. Is it possible that some 9MM ammo(walmart white box)not have enough kick to push back bolt far enough to for hammer to be caught by the disconnector? Maybe some rounds are no loaded hot enough. I want to try a weaker buffer spring? What do you thing?
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 10:25:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2003 10:28:57 AM EDT by ken_mays]
That's a good point. I don't know if the hammer following the bolt carrier will result in firing the round. I suppose one could remove the disconnector to verify this, but I don't want to get kicked off my range. I am also using Winchester white box, which is what I have been using and seeing the problem with. I did have some Federal Hydra-Shoks I was trying out, and from what I could tell before my extractor broke (I only shot about 5 or so) the problem was not occurring with them. The chamber is too tight for my reloads, but I did get the Lee Factory Crimp die and it did size them down enough to chamber. The reloads didn't solve the tripling problem though.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 11:04:35 AM EDT
Will try some +p 9mm and some black talons I have this weekend and see how it goes. Will let you know. I think if the hammer does not catch it Would refire from the force of bolt and hammer coming forward. If I remove disconnector it would fire as soon as I let got of charging handle to chamber first round. I believe?
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 11:39:29 AM EDT
As long as the trigger was pulled back, there is nothing else holding the hammer back. P.S. I wouldn't load more than 2 or 3 rounds during this little experiment.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 2:09:38 PM EDT
I've used nothing but Winchester 100rnd value packs thru my Olympic. Not one problem. I'm also using a heavy carbine buffer.(carbine/m4 stock of course) When I chrono'd the rounds 2 months ago the average was significiently over 1,400 fps. My barrel is 14.5 inchs with a fake flash suppressor to make it a legal 16 inchs.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 8:50:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2003 8:56:45 PM EDT by PAPPYO]
I shoot alot of the WW white box also with no doubling problems. My Olympic 9 is about 8-9 yrs. old. It has the forward assist serrations on the carrier. I run a standard buffer, buffer spring in a A2 stock. It's chamber is on the tight side though. The firing pin spring in my Olmpic seems quite a bit stiffer than Colt style 9mm also. Mine finally broke a ejector spring this year. Maybe a hotter ammo change like you were saying with 2-3 rounds in the magazine. Maybe strip the bolt assemblies and look for machineing burrs or brass and powder build up in and around the firing pin?
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 11:01:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2003 11:03:04 PM EDT by budam]
Oly is using a new ejector that reduces the problems that the old time ejector had. Since you have a lifetime warrenty, call up Oly, tell them what happened and they will send you a new one for FREE!
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 6:15:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By budam: Oly is using a new ejector that reduces the problems that the old time ejector had. Since you have a lifetime warrenty, call up Oly, tell them what happened and they will send you a new one for FREE!
View Quote
Hmmm... I was going to make a new extractor out of an AR extractor because I didn't want to bother explaining the problem to some customer service drone, but I think it might be worth a try now.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 7:52:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ken_mays:
Originally Posted By budam: Oly is using a new ejector that reduces the problems that the old time ejector had. Since you have a lifetime warrenty, call up Oly, tell them what happened and they will send you a new one for FREE!
View Quote
Well, they want me to send it in. Since they have 3 different bolt carriers they have to see exactly which one it is.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 8:30:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/10/2003 8:32:41 AM EDT by ken_mays]
Originally Posted By PAPPYO: Maybe a hotter ammo change like you were saying with 2-3 rounds in the magazine. Maybe strip the bolt assemblies and look for machineing burrs or brass and powder build up in and around the firing pin?
View Quote
I noticed the tight chamber too, it wouldn't work with any of my reloads. I did buy the Lee Factory Crimp die to see if it would help, and it does size them small enough to fit now. As far as the doubling problem, I've used two different lowers, an M4 stock and an A2 stock. There are two possible causes of this problem as I see it. 1) The hammer is somehow getting loose and hitting the firing pin. I can test this by removing the disconnector; if the hammer follows the bolt, it will either fire or not. If it fires, I will have to work on the disconnector to increase the amount of engagement. 2) The firing pin (or something) is hitting the primer. This can be addressed by smoothing the bolt face and upgrading the firing pin spring.
Is it possible that some 9MM ammo(walmart white box)not have enough kick to push back bolt far enough to for hammer to be caught by the disconnector? Maybe some rounds are no loaded hot enough. I want to try a weaker buffer spring?
View Quote
I don't think this is the case. The bolt is obviously moving back far enough to pick up a new round, and if it's doing this, there is no doubt it's cocking the hammer.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 10:44:35 PM EDT
Hammer follow on a spring loaded firing pin should not cause ignition. Take your lower cock the hammer while holding the trigger back. Now grab the hammer and pull it forward and wiggle it. If it can slip off the disconnector that is your problem with doubling. The extractor is one weak point of the Oly system. Easy to modify a std. .223 extractor. I finally got tired of breaking extractors and modified my bolt/carrier to accept std. .223 exractors. It was complicated but fixed the problem. I machined the cut in the bolt back farther. then put a spring into the std. recess of the extractor, then tapered the bottom of the cam pin so that when inserted that tensioned the extractor spring.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 4:40:10 AM EDT
Thanks, I'll check that out. I like your idea of modifying the bolt, I'll look into that. I may have a couple of questions about it if you don't mind.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 5:21:36 AM EDT
Well, I milled my bolt and cam pin last night. Everything fits but it looks like there's too much spring tension on the extractor. I need to deepen the taper on the pin, I think. I'd also taken some metal off the front foot of the disconnector, and it will not let the hammer go no matter how much I wiggle it. I guess it's time for another range visit.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 9:31:13 PM EDT
If from my bad description you understood how I got a std. extractor to work you did real good.
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 5:20:42 AM EDT
The tricky part was milling the correct taper on the cam pin. Since the extractor spring is angled down with regard to the cam pin hole, I needed to figure out a way to taper the cam pin to keep it from knocking the extractor spring out. [img]http://grahamcracka.dns2go.com/9mmbolt.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 5:52:24 AM EDT
hey ken_mays went to the range yesterday and used my oly upper on a brand new bushy a2 complete I got a month ago still got some double and tripples(2 diffrent lowers(both bushy). I check bolt face looks and feels smooth. What place sells firing pin springs can I get stronger ones?
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 5:58:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2003 6:53:04 AM EDT by ken_mays]
I don't know where you can get a firing pin spring for that particular gun, BUT... I did notice that a 1911 firing pin spring looks like it would fit, but you'd have to cut it down. I would also recommend checking the hammer like David_Hineline explains a few posts up.
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 8:28:07 PM EDT
I'm debating whether to order a new one from Olympic or just cut down an AR extractor.
View Quote
Thats how they make them, cut down and ground by hand, then tweaked and fitted in final assembly. My 45 carbine also doubles occasionally. Fritze Out
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:57:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 9:58:24 AM EDT by ken_mays]
Well now that I have forever ruined any chance of Olympic ever fixing anything on my 9mm upper, I took my bolt with modified extractor to the range. [img]http://grahamcracka.dns2go.com/bolt1.jpg[/img] The extractor functioned well, and has held up through about 60 rounds. The original extractor spring was just too strong for it, so I substituted part of a (I think) buffer retainer pin spring. The original Oly extractor was pretty lightly sprung, so this did the trick. The bad news is that I am still getting doubling and tripling with my Olympic lower and telestock. What was interesting is that the doubling did not occur on a friend's full-sized A2 Bushmaster lower. I suspect at this point that the problem is partially due to the speed of the return of the bolt carrier. The A2 lower seems to run a little slower, and the problem seems to go away. I believe the firing pin is slapping the primer when the bolt runs too fast.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 11:35:39 AM EDT
ken_mays Mine was doubling on a standard a2 lower. I flipped the firing pin spring around and last trip to the range no doubles or tripples. Give it a try. 99si-mass
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 12:07:01 PM EDT
I actually put in a little stronger spring, didn't seem to help. I'm going to look around for a significantly stronger spring because I now think this is the heart of the problem. Also the front sight tower is canted too far to the right, but that's another problem :(
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