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Posted: 1/6/2006 6:59:48 PM EDT
Project Leonidas

Finally, an AR-10 that I'd consider owning!
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:03:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 7:04:52 PM EDT by Va_Dinger]
Now that is truly impressive.

It looks like a great urban sniper/counter sniper weapon.

If I remember correctly Adco has been working on a similar 7.62mm project.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:04:11 PM EDT
nice! What section of the site is that under?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:05:25 PM EDT
That's pretty sweet.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:08:20 PM EDT
I wonder if it works with the SR25 or the DPMS rifles.

Id want one that uses the right magizine.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:09:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JBowles:
I wonder if it works with the SR25 or the DPMS rifles.

Id want one that uses the right magizine.



That's an AR10 lower.

So the answer is "NO", not without some fairly simple; but fairly expensive custom fitting.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:16:33 PM EDT
So the barrel extensoins are different between the barrels.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:22:25 PM EDT
Crap, I'm never gonna get out of CC debt.


But what a way to go!

That is a VERY nice looking rifle. I don't really need a .308 but what the hell.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:24:30 PM EDT
It's on the front page.

This rig would be a beast with 155 grain AMAX against light skinned autos. Hell, it'd be sweet as a sniper-support rifle, as an overwatch rifle, or as Dinger said, (with higher mag'ed optics) a full blown Sniper/CounterSniper rifle.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:27:53 PM EDT
thats the first short barreled 7.62 ive seen. cool.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:44:39 PM EDT
I want one.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:46:37 PM EDT
make it chrome lined and I'd like it. I'm not too keen on a stainless barrel on a battle rifle. Not with the amount of rounds I put through my firearms.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:51:26 PM EDT
Tag.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 8:58:57 PM EDT
I'm going to have to agree. I usually don't like the looks of the AR10, but that is hot
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:06:34 PM EDT
Now for the all-important question: How much does it cost?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:08:28 PM EDT
i'll bet its LOUD as hell w/ that thing indoors
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:20:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
i'll bet its LOUD as hell w/ that thing indoors



It shouldn't be much worse than my ParaFAL w/ a Vortex. Which is, BTW, as loud as hell outdoors or indoors.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:31:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By infsqdldr:
thats the first short barreled 7.62 ive seen. cool.





Now you've seen two...

I'm just representin'
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:05:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HK_Shooter_03:

Originally Posted By infsqdldr:
thats the first short barreled 7.62 ive seen. cool.



www.urban-armory.com/51a3.JPG

Now you've seen two...

I'm just representin'



Oh Lord... Not the HK51!



Talk about loud, the HK51 is a reason to wear plugs inside of muffs. And Nomex gloves... And a crash helmet.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:20:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 10:23:52 PM EDT by Gunzilla]

Originally Posted By infsqdldr:
thats the first short barreled 7.62 ive seen. cool.



Ya know... there's probably a good reason for that?

Capn_Crunch, I'll see your HK51 and raise you a HK51B

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:29:10 PM EDT
Looks like a nice rifle.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:30:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By infsqdldr:
thats the first short barreled 7.62 ive seen. cool.





No HK51 for me, I had to settle for this lousy MG.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:35:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AK_Mike:

Originally Posted By infsqdldr:
thats the first short barreled 7.62 ive seen. cool.



photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=18785

No HK51 for me, I had to settle for this lousy MG.



Nice! I have always had a weak spot for the SA58OSW, but shooting one gets it out of the system for a while
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:38:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunzilla:

Originally Posted By infsqdldr:
thats the first short barreled 7.62 ive seen. cool.



Ya know... there's probably a good reason for that?

Capn_Crunch, I'll see your HK51 and raise you a HK51B

www.gunzilla.com/images/hk51b.jpg



The can of liquid wrench in that pic cracks me up.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:41:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunzilla:

Originally Posted By infsqdldr:
thats the first short barreled 7.62 ive seen. cool.



Ya know... there's probably a good reason for that?

Capn_Crunch, I'll see your HK51 and raise you a HK51B

www.gunzilla.com/images/hk51b.jpg




Sweet Mother of God!
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:53:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunzilla:

Originally Posted By infsqdldr:
thats the first short barreled 7.62 ive seen. cool.



Ya know... there's probably a good reason for that?

Capn_Crunch, I'll see your HK51 and raise you a HK51B

www.gunzilla.com/images/hk51b.jpg



Mother Mary, that thing frightens me.

In all honesty, I don't usually dig short 7.62N guns. I've got an M1A (1976 vintage SA receiver w/ USGI parts) and an 18" ParaFAL...

I just think this thing would rain on Hadji's parade when he decides to pepper a contractor SUV with his PKM. Imagine the look on his face when the 7.62N started piercing the wall of that van carrying him and his little Joe Jihadi buddies. Kinda like the commercials: Priceless
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:21:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunzilla:

Originally Posted By AK_Mike:

Originally Posted By infsqdldr:
thats the first short barreled 7.62 ive seen. cool.



photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=18785

No HK51 for me, I had to settle for this lousy MG.



Nice! I have always had a weak spot for the SA58OSW, but shooting one gets it out of the system for a while



In what way? The fireball is quite small, about the size of a grapefruit, cyclic rate is low (2 round bursts are super easy). The parastock isn't the most comfortable stock but that's the tradeoff for a folder. I find .308 HK's much more jarring.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:56:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 9:57:21 AM EDT by Gunzilla]

Originally Posted By AK_Mike:

Originally Posted By Gunzilla:

Originally Posted By AK_Mike:

Originally Posted By infsqdldr:
thats the first short barreled 7.62 ive seen. cool.



photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=18785

No HK51 for me, I had to settle for this lousy MG.



Nice! I have always had a weak spot for the SA58OSW, but shooting one gets it out of the system for a while



In what way? The fireball is quite small, about the size of a grapefruit, cyclic rate is low (2 round bursts are super easy). The parastock isn't the most comfortable stock but that's the tradeoff for a folder. I find .308 HK's much more jarring.



Granted, the HKs are just brutal... but as I recall the OSW that I have shot had slightly more than an grapefruit size muzzle flash and was not what I would call pleasent to shoot... but that is not really the reason that I only need an "SBR in 308" fix only once every so often -- I just think that cartridge belongs in a gun with more than a foot of barrel. As a friend once put it "chambering a gun that size in 308 is like pumping five gallons of gas out on the ground everytime you fill up your tank."

Sure, they are fun and perhaps fill a niche? But the 308 ballistics suffer a great deal in these shorter guns, to the point that the cartridge really is not doing much more than a smaller and more efficient (for that barrel length) round would do... say 6.8SPC? Heck, even the 7.62X39 is not that far behind.

As for CQB... This has become the current theater of opertations on arfcom it seems, but not sure how many people really have to worry about it? But some considerations go beyond how short and "handy" your weapon is... if anyone has ever been in the ladderwell of say a hotel fire escape (that small, concrete and steel echo chamber), just imagine you and a few buds getting in a gun fight with a simular number of guys two floor up...

So, with that, these are just my opinions... (being anotomically correct, I know all about the correlation of opinion and the digestive tract though) I would prefer sticking with a platform that is inherently smaller and lighter, with a less noticable ammo bulk and near comparable ballistics... my 'druthers, for something handy to use at distances of normal social intercourse would be a regular old AR in 300 Whisper -- that is, until I can get a 338S from Marty, then this may change.

Gunz...
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:19:18 AM EDT
That's the coolest AR10 I've ever seen.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 1:55:24 PM EDT
Sorry, last hijack.

Gunzilla, I agree. I think I enjoy the brutality of the piece in itself.

Yes, you lose a lot of thump with the mini barrels, thankfully you are not counting on bullet expansion but I wouldn't take such short barrels into combat unless it was CQB, and even then only if I had to, no matter what the rifle. I use mine only for fun though.

In fact, when I want the people to clear out, move a few benches down, that short barreled FN is what I pull out. A few mag dumps in full auto will make room. The rain of brass and waves of concussion in full auto or rapid semiauto fire usually makes most people go away, though a couple of hardcore types may move in cause it attracts them. I love it. But could you imagine shooting it without hearing protection? Inside a room? Holy bleeding ears batman. I need to get a suppressor for it for when I want to be civilized.

Back to thread

LOVE IT! I have a penchant for short barrels, would love to have one on my AR-10. I like the short barrel + suppressor combo's unlike cans on a full length because then they get pretty unwieldy. The Leonidas SD look is cool and compact, very civilized.

Just another notch on my wishlist, sigh....
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:05:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:12:34 PM EDT
Bigbore, I completly agree with you.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:13:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigcraig:
Bigbore, I completly agree with you.



+1
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:39:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By Capn_Crunch:
Project Leonidas

Finally, an AR-10 that I'd consider owning!



What is it? I looks like an Armalite AR10 with some upgrades? Is the muzzle thing perm-attached for 16" OAL, or is it really an SBR? I would love to meet the Dept that would consider a form 5 for one of those!

I'm old in my ways. 5.56 barrels should be no longer than 16" and 7.62 barrels shouldnt be shorter than 20"



I think your reversed on caliber & barrel length. I am also old in my ways, but 16" in a 7.62N (RECCE configuration) gas gun would be optimal.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:00:46 PM EDT
18" is as low as I go in .308 for a duty rifle
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:22:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AK_Mike:
18" is as low as I go in .308 for a duty rifle



AK_Mike,

Can you be more specific on why?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:26:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pcurtis:

Originally Posted By AK_Mike:
18" is as low as I go in .308 for a duty rifle



AK_Mike,

Can you be more specific on why?




pcurtis wants to debate. I can just feel it in the air.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 3:36:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spooge5150:

Originally Posted By pcurtis:

Originally Posted By AK_Mike:
18" is as low as I go in .308 for a duty rifle



AK_Mike,

Can you be more specific on why?


pcurtis wants to debate. I can just feel it in the air.



No debate desired at all, just looking for his input and the application that he see that an 18" minium is a requiremen for a 7.62N weapon based on his post. . I do try and learn somethings here, but sometimes it is very trying.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:24:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:32:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By pcurtis:
I think your reversed on caliber & barrel length. I am also old in my ways, but 16" in a 7.62N (RECCE configuration) gas gun would be optimal.



What is a 7.62N ?



7.62X51 NATO
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:33:29 PM EDT
Looks great but the 13" barrel puts me out of the game.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 4:37:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:13:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 5:15:44 PM EDT by DarkNite]
What exactly is a CQB Support Weapon?

Sounds like ubertactical hype to me. Please provide the question that a 13" barreled AR-10 is the answer to.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:38:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 5:41:30 PM EDT by new-arguy]
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 5:44:02 PM EDT
MUST BUY NOW!
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:05:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DarkNite:
What exactly is a CQB Support Weapon?





It's so when other people are doing CQB work, you can send in a guy with a CQB Support Weapon to stun the enemy. It replaces the Flashbang Support System.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 6:29:39 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:23:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pcurtis:

Originally Posted By AK_Mike:
18" is as low as I go in .308 for a duty rifle



AK_Mike,

Can you be more specific on why?



It's just my own personal comfort level for velocity loss. IIRC many .308 loads were developed for a minimum of 18", below that and curve of reduction in velocity increases. This obviously only applies to certain loads and probably a throwback from old times. I have no problem whatsoever to those that demand 20" or are okay with less than 18". In fact, if I come across some good debate that would change my mind, that would be welcome, I'm always looking to learn.

I'm also thinking it depends highly on the mission for the rifle, i.e. long range shooting vs CQB, multimission, etc... I have an MP5SD and while it's cool, it hits like a .380ACP, it's mission envelope is very limited.

So no challenge but is it the majority consensus that 20" should be the minimum or is less acceptable? I haven't even looked at any barrel length vs velocity charts in a while. Unlike the 5.56 the .308 is not dependent on fragmentation so it doesn't seem to be as critical although at long ranges the point at which the bullet goes subsonic/destabilizing, affecting accuracy, still applies I guess.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:59:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 8:02:21 PM EDT by DevL]
I was asking AR10 owners what they were getting with 150ish grain loads or even more specifically 155 TAP and the difference in velocity from 20" to 16" AR10 rifles was only 100fps. I would like to do a giant version of my current 11.5" build in 5.56 in a 7.62 16" package if the SBR works out as planned. I think a 16" 7.62 is a better mid range performer from a windage and bullet drop type of perspective but wonder how much velocity you will lose from 16" to 13". I think it probably turns the AR10 into a CQB only type of weapon and while that might be a Dr GR weapon of choice along with 230 grain +P Ranger loaded in a sidearm its just too much gun for me for a CQB rifle.

Are there any velocity figures out for that barrel with 150 or 155 grain ammo?
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:36:43 PM EDT
Wonder how much that weighs....

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:42:15 PM EDT
I'm not impressed. Too many factors make me think that gun is about the size of ones penis rather than performing an actual task.



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