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Posted: 1/7/2018 11:35:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2020 7:17:35 PM EDT by pezboytate]
United States Army Special Operations Command (USASOC) Upper Receiver Group, Improved (URG-I)

This thread is for pictures of and discussion about issued URG-Is and clones. That doesn't include "inspired by" rifles, "my take on an URG-I" rifles, Geissele Duty rifles, Geissele Super Duty rifles, or anything else. Please post those pictures here, here, or here.

Parts list for issued URG-I rifles:

Lower Receiver Group

lower receiver- M4A1

receiver extension- standard M4/M4A1

action spring- standard M4/M4A1

buffer- H2

grip- standard M16A2/M16A3/M16A4/M4/M4A1

stock- SOPMOD

trigger- Geissele SSF- P/N 05-102

selector- Colt full auto ambi- P/N SP401017

14.5" Upper Receiver Group, Improved- NSN 1005-01-671-3911

upper receiver- standard M4/M4A1

bolt carrier group- standard M16A4/M4/M4A1

charging handle- Geissele Airborne Charging Handle in Desert Dirt Color with subdued markings- P/N 05-664S- NSN 1005-01-672-4803

barrel- Daniel Defense 14.5" mid length "GOV" profile with .076" gas port- P/N 07-077-07308

gas block- Daniel Defense pinned gas block which comes on their rifles and URGs

gas tube- Daniel Defense mid length- P/N 04-013-18034

hand guard- Geissele 13.5" MK16 in Desert Dirt Color- P/N 05-650S- NSN 1005-01-672-4794

M-LOK rail section- Magpul 7 slot aluminum- P/N MAG582-BLK

sling mount- Magpul QD- P/N MAG606-BLK

muzzle device- SureFire 4 prong flash hider- P/N FH556RC

suppressor- SureFire SOCOM in Dark Earth- P/N SOCOM556-RC

rear BUIS- Matech

front BUIS- Knight's Armament Front Flip Sight in Taupe P/N 99051

11.5" Upper Receiver Group, Improved- NSN 1005-01-684-1906

upper receiver- standard M4/M4A1

bolt carrier group- standard M16A4/M4/M4A1

charging handle- Geissele Airborne Charging Handle in Desert Dirt Color with subdued markings- P/N 05-664S- NSN 1005-01-672-4803

barrel- Daniel Defense 11.5" "GOV" profile- P/N 07-077-07108

gas block- Daniel Defense pinned gas block which comes on their rifles and URGs

gas tube- Daniel Defense carbine length- P/N 04-013-01009

hand guard- Geissele 10.5" MK16 in Desert Dirt Color- P/N 05-650S- NSN ?

M-LOK rail section- Magpul 7 slot aluminum- P/N MAG582-BLK

sling mount- Magpul QD- P/N MAG606-BLK

muzzle device- SureFire 4 prong flash hider- P/N FH556RC

suppressor- SureFire SOCOM in Dark Earth- P/N SOCOM556-RC

rear BUIS- Matech

front BUIS- Knight's Armament Front Flip Sight in Taupe

10.3" Upper Receiver Group, Improved
NOT issued


Specs:

13.5" Mk16 mass- 14.8 oz
14.5" barrel mass- 1 lb 8.0 oz
14.5" URG-I mass- 4 lb 3 oz (14.5" Block II with Govt profile barrel and same muzzle device is 4 lb 7 oz)

10.5" Mk16 mass- ?
11.5" barrel mass- 1 lb 4.5 oz
11.5" URG-I mass- ? (10.3" Block II with Govt profile barrel and same muzzle device is 3 lb 12 oz)

9.3" Mk16 (not issued, only included for reference) mass- 11.9 oz
10.3" barrel (not issued, only included for reference) mass- 1 lb 2.4 oz
10.3" URG-I (not issued, only included for reference) mass- 3 lb 10 oz (Block II with Govt profile barrel and same muzzle device is 3 lb 12 oz)

Known upper receivers used on issued 14.5" URG-Is:
Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File


Known BCGs used in 14.5" URG-Is:
Attachment Attached File


14.5" URG-I gas blocks:
Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File


If you have any pictures that show issued upper receiver or BCG markings, please post them.

If you have any pictures of gas blocks on post testing issued URG-Is that are different, please post them.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 11:38:50 AM EDT
Hasn't palmetto and Sig used those O marked uppers? I've got a preorder in for a stripped upper
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 12:10:48 PM EDT
Gas block is Geissele also, they said it’s a new slimmer gas block.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 12:13:32 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TATBME:
Gas block is Geissele also, they said it’s a new slimmer gas block.
View Quote
That's what the Geissele uppers have but perhaps the issued uppers have something different.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 12:25:22 PM EDT
My only question is when are they gonna be shipped?

Brownels said your CC won't be billed until they ship.

I still need a PEQ15, but might still pre order a upper.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 12:57:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2018 12:59:10 PM EDT by joglee]
Just a FYI OP, the actual spec is DD MK12 gas block and SF4P muzzle device.

The Brownells is not 100% clone correct.

It also appears this is very similar to the IMR that is catching interest with other branches.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 12:58:38 PM EDT
At this rate, all of you guys will have them before the military does.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 1:02:58 PM EDT
Yeah, I want that.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 1:08:59 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joglee:
Just a FYI OP, the actual spec is DD MK12 gas block and SF4P muzzle device.

The Brownells is not 100% clone correct.

It also appears this is very similar to the IMR that is catching interest with other branches.
View Quote
Yep...no thanks!

I will keep my M4A1 Block 1.5 all day.  I’m thinking a USASOC can be built with used parts at a considerable discount as well.  $1,400 for an upper
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 1:12:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2018 1:12:19 PM EDT by joglee]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AmericanCheese:

Yep...no thanks!

I will keep my M4A1 Block 1.5 all day.  I’m thinking a USASOC can be built with used parts at a considerable discount as well.  $1,400 for an upper
View Quote
Easily. I could build that upper for $800 or so if I went PSA FN CHF middy.

That's actually my plan for my next build.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 1:12:45 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AmericanCheese:
Yep...no thanks!

I will keep my M4A1 Block 1.5 all day.  I’m thinking a USASOC can be built with used parts at a considerable discount as well.  $1,400 for an upper
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AmericanCheese:
Originally Posted By joglee:
Just a FYI OP, the actual spec is DD MK12 gas block and SF4P muzzle device.

The Brownells is not 100% clone correct.

It also appears this is very similar to the IMR that is catching interest with other branches.
Yep...no thanks!

I will keep my M4A1 Block 1.5 all day.  I’m thinking a USASOC can be built with used parts at a considerable discount as well.  $1,400 for an upper
The only way to get the rail is with the complete or stripped upper, so I’d be curious how you’d build it for cheaper.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 1:19:40 PM EDT
I think I'll just keep what I have.......Block 2.5

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Industry/Big-Thanks-to-Nick-C-S-/444-284993/
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 1:21:57 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By McGoo:

The only way to get the rail is with the complete or stripped upper, so I’d be curious how you’d build it for cheaper.
View Quote
I'm sure the Mk16 will eventually be sold individually.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 2:11:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2018 2:22:33 PM EDT by AmericanCheese]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joglee:

I'm sure the Mk16 will eventually be sold individually.
View Quote
Yep just like the DD RIS II.....

and now they pop up on the EE regularly.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 2:27:18 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joglee:
Just a FYI OP, the actual spec is DD MK12 gas block and SF4P muzzle device.

The Brownells is not 100% clone correct.

It also appears this is very similar to the IMR that is catching interest with other branches.
View Quote
I hate this not knowing actual issued parts thing.

Not used to not knowing!
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 2:37:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2018 3:07:54 PM EDT by joglee]
Official part list.

Geissele Mk16.
Geissele ACH.
DD 14.5" MID-LENGTH government profile CHF BARREL.
DD MK12 gas block.
Surefire SF4P.
Standard M16/M4 BCG.
Standard M4 receiver.
Standard M4A1 lower with H2 buffer.
SOPMOD stock.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 2:48:10 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joglee:
Official part list.

Geissele Mk16.
Geissele ACH.
DD 14.5" MID-LENGTH CHF BARREL.
DD MK12 gas block.
Surefire SF4P.
Standard M16/M4 BCG.
Standard M4 receiver.
Standard M4A1 lower with H2 buffer.
SOPMOD stock.
View Quote
Source?
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 2:48:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2018 3:01:15 PM EDT by MILSPEC556]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joglee:
Official part list.

Geissele Mk16.
Geissele ACH.
DD 14.5" MID-LENGTH CHF BARREL.
DD MK12 gas block.
Surefire SF4P.
Standard M16/M4 BCG.
Standard M4 receiver.
Standard M4A1 lower with H2 buffer.
SOPMOD stock.
View Quote
Will be interesting to see who's receiver and BCG the URG is initially issued with. I know @Combat_Diver receives FN receivers and FN bolts/carriers for rebuilds, so it will also be interesting to see (down the road) if those same spare parts are kept from the same supply system. Will also be interesting to see if the "rebuild barrels" will also be DD, or come from somebody like FN down the road.

Hurry up and wait motherfucker
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 2:48:28 PM EDT
Damnit, I just ordered a Geissele Mk4. Wonder why they didn't pick that?
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 2:50:54 PM EDT
Is ARSOC getting all new uppers, like what Geissele is selling, or are they just replacing barrels and handguards on existing M4A1s? It would kind of suck dropping a grand for basically a handguard and barrel and then swapping everything else with parts I already have.

Probably still going to get one.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 2:53:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By McGoo:

Source?
View Quote
GS5414 confirmed it.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 2:59:58 PM EDT
Just saw these hit the website. Was wondering about the barrel and now see that it is a DD. They will sell like hot cakes.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 3:13:38 PM EDT
I'm bummed to see the "complete" version doesn't include the DLC BCG that Bill has been talking about for a couple years now. I thought it might finally see the light of day.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 3:13:58 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By StealthGuy:
Is ARSOC getting all new uppers, like what Geissele is selling, or are they just replacing barrels and handguards on existing M4A1s? It would kind of suck dropping a grand for basically a handguard and barrel and then swapping everything else with parts I already have.

Probably still going to get one.
View Quote
Maybe we can get Bill in here to clear it up. Its worth a shot right?

@sagmill
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 3:16:13 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deimo5:
I'm bummed to see the "complete" version doesn't include the DLC BCG that Bill has been talking about for a couple years now. I thought it might finally see the light of day.
View Quote
It's a clone. The normal BCG works fine and they can get them cheap and easy.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 3:23:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2018 3:23:55 PM EDT by pezboytate]
What's interesting to me is that this barrel is actually lighter than an M4 barrel. I wonder how much the MK16 weighs.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 3:25:36 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pezboytate:
What's interesting to me is that this barrel is actually lighter than an M4 barrel. I wonder how much the MK16 weighs.
View Quote
Well that's interesting. Id assume its not due to the larger (mid length) gas port.

Is your M4 barrel weight with FSB?
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 3:29:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Well that's interesting. Id assume its not due to the larger (mid length) gas port.

Is your M4 barrel weight with FSB?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By pezboytate:
What's interesting to me is that this barrel is actually lighter than an M4 barrel. I wonder how much the MK16 weighs.
Well that's interesting. Id assume its not due to the larger (mid length) gas port.

Is your M4 barrel weight with FSB?
Stripped barrel comparison. It's because the thin part behind the gas block is 2" longer and the thick part in front of the gas block is shorter.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 3:30:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2018 3:32:57 PM EDT by tonyxcom]
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 3:34:36 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pezboytate:

Stripped barrel comparison. It's because the thin part behind the gas block is 2" longer and the thick part in front of the gas block is shorter.
View Quote
That makes sense.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 3:35:53 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pezboytate:
Stripped barrel comparison. It's because the thin part behind the gas block is 2" longer and the thick part in front of the gas block is shorter.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pezboytate:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By pezboytate:
What's interesting to me is that this barrel is actually lighter than an M4 barrel. I wonder how much the MK16 weighs.
Well that's interesting. Id assume its not due to the larger (mid length) gas port.

Is your M4 barrel weight with FSB?
Stripped barrel comparison. It's because the thin part behind the gas block is 2" longer and the thick part in front of the gas block is shorter.
Gotcha. That makes sense.

Makes you wonder, without the need for a barrel mounted M203, bayonet or anything of the sort. Why the hell they even picked the M4 profile in a mid length in the first place. Might as well have made the entire tube .750 O.D.  
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 3:36:29 PM EDT
So where's a good place to buy a CHF middy? Doesn't have to be DD.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 3:36:43 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pezboytate:
What's interesting to me is that this barrel is actually lighter than an M4 barrel. I wonder how much the MK16 weighs.
View Quote
I'm going to guess add about 3 or so oz to the mk14 and you have it
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 3:44:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2018 4:57:28 PM EDT by JSchell1309]
Any news on if they are planning on replacing the mk18 handguard with a shorter Geissele? Was that in the contract at all or is this strictly for 14.5" barrel upper.

I think it would be cool to build a 300Blk  Mk18 "block 3" upper to share with my CQBR upper.

Photos from the other thread.

Posted in another thread, test samples provided by Geissele.
Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File


Posted in another thread, looks like the Mk14 and not the Mk16 rail


Geissele tweet before they announced the contract


Geissele Live announcement
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 3:46:13 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pezboytate:

It's a clone. The normal BCG works fine and they can get them cheap and easy.
View Quote
DLC works a hell of a lot better if done right, and Geissele would have been the reputable company I would have trusted to do it right. And besides, don't go in those clone threads with that "close enough" attitude, they'll get after you

Besides, Bill is already making (or has access to) them: Pic
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 3:46:29 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JSchell1309:
Any news on if they are planning on replacing the mk18 handguard with a shorter Geissele? Was that in the contract at all or is this strictly for 14.5" barrel upper.

I think it would be cool to build a 300Blk  Mk18 "block 3" upper to share with my CQBR upper.
View Quote
We have no idea. Details are pretty scarce on all of it ATM.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 4:07:39 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AmericanCheese:

Yep just like the DD RIS II.....

and now they pop up on the EE regularly.
View Quote
When DD RIS II came out, for the first couple of years, you could buy them individually all day long.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 4:11:08 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joglee:
GS5414 confirmed it.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joglee:
Originally Posted By McGoo:

Source?
GS5414 confirmed it.
So then the stripped upper option would get you the closest?

Except for the the gas block?
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 4:14:46 PM EDT
The DD barrel is special sauce, and isn't anything like what's currently available in a midlength chf.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 4:19:11 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
The DD barrel is special sauce, and isn't anything like what's currently available in a midlength chf.
View Quote
I don't mean to be obnoxious but do you have a source for this?
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 4:36:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By papabear1868:

I don't mean to be obnoxious but do you have a source for this?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By papabear1868:

I don't mean to be obnoxious but do you have a source for this?
Employee of Geissele on the Geissele Owner's Group on FB.

...usasoc selected the govt profile. Weight and ergonomics was a big deal for them. They tested the crap out of it. So it is a govt profile barrel, but that is also what they selected for the URGI. I believe there is also some other magic in the barrel, DD has told me they’ve done some special sauce stuff to it. It is not the same as the barrel offered on the website. I would guess it’s something metallurgical but that would be a guess. The big thing with the barrel was being optimized for A1.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 4:42:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
Employee of Geissele on the Geissele Owner's Group on FB.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
Originally Posted By papabear1868:

I don't mean to be obnoxious but do you have a source for this?
Employee of Geissele on the Geissele Owner's Group on FB.

...usasoc selected the govt profile. Weight and ergonomics was a big deal for them. They tested the crap out of it. So it is a govt profile barrel, but that is also what they selected for the URGI. I believe there is also some other magic in the barrel, DD has told me they’ve done some special sauce stuff to it. It is not the same as the barrel offered on the website. I would guess it’s something metallurgical but that would be a guess. The big thing with the barrel was being optimized for A1.
So then the URG they are offering from brownells has this barrel?
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 4:44:24 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
The DD barrel is special sauce, and isn't anything like what's currently available in a midlength chf.
View Quote
In what way? Steel used?
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 4:49:56 PM EDT
More from the same employee:

The uppers have a DD barrel. Which is the same barrel they are providing to usasoc. Also has a 3 prong open time surefire warcomp which is very close to the one they provide to usasoc. Both of those guys need their piece of the pie and it unfortunately drives the price up some. As time goes on we will have another version that will be a Geissele barrel and Geissele muzzle device and will be less expensive.

The rail by itself may come in the future, for now production will be tied up with contract work. We wanted to bring a true near clone upper to market. Which this is.

...it is a high quality, true to the drawing, mil-spec m4 carbine bcg. Once we get the nano coating process dialed in fully for production. We will likely have an “enhanced URGI” which will have that and a few other enhancements we feel are necessary. I would not expect that for another 6 months potentially. Really the only hang up is getting nano in a position where it is production ready. We have it, it works excellent. But at the moment we’re just dialing in consistency from run to run. Getting that last 10% is the hurdle.
View Quote
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 4:52:39 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Vapor-Trail:

So then the URG they are offering from brownells has this barrel?
View Quote
From what Bill said in the livestream, coupled with the info given by the employee, yes.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 5:04:39 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sdrake100:

From what Bill said in the livestream, coupled with the info given by the employee, yes.
View Quote
That seems to me to be more reasonable. I wouldnt think USASOC wants to build their own uppers themselves. Thats what Crane does and even they are trying to get away from that as much as they can.

I would think that someone, most likely Geissele, has a contract to ship the entire upper as a complete drop in replacement.
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 5:46:33 PM EDT
@sdrake100

For those of us that are purists, you might want to go with the stripped urg-i-

Link Posted: 1/7/2018 6:05:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2018 8:20:40 PM EDT by fastfoot]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By joglee:
So where's a good place to buy a CHF middy? Doesn't have to be DD.
View Quote
I think that ST has/sells a FN chf 16 inch middy in a "optimum" profile.

PA has this....... DD chf middy
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 7:59:39 PM EDT
@GS5414

This thread. Thanks for any help with the questions here bro
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 8:05:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2018 8:17:42 PM EDT by GS5414]
Okay, I'm here.

Good lord, lots to discuss. Give me a second to catch up.

Also understand I will not answer every question. Some things just can't be said yet.

ETA :

1. List Joglee posted is correct.
2. Suppressor is legacy SOCOM556-RC
3. Shipping? Just be patient, SHOT is around the corner, everyone in the gun world is scrambling. Just give the good folks at G a chance to build them right
4. JSchell1309 - Believe it or not, those guns in your photo were Marine Corps M4s presented to the USAF in June. I know this, because I was the guy who brought them there... First prototype Mk16s, not the final ones. The photos leaked and were not supposed to, but its no harm now.
5. For a 100% spec build, yes, the stripped upper could in time get you closest, but you can't get the Mk16 standalone right now.
6. USASOC will build them themselves. Avoiding the overhead charged by Crane. Legacy Crane M4/CQBR URGs cost around $1820-$1860 a piece, and did have issues at times.

Pending any other questions, that's all I got.

S/F
Link Posted: 1/7/2018 8:14:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2018 8:14:53 PM EDT by pezboytate]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GS5414:
Okay, I'm here.

Good lord, lots to discuss. Give me a second to catch up.

Also understand I will not answer every question. Some things just can't be said yet.

Stand by.

S/F
View Quote
Please verify my parts list.

Is there a 10.3" URG-I?

Back up iron sights?

Optics?

Thanks!
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