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Link Posted: 9/3/2021 3:51:38 PM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By HCM3156:


The only 10.5” guns I’ve seen are old SWAT guns with A frames snd 7” quad rails.

The only 14.5” uppers I’ve seen are 14.5” with 13” Mlok G rails.

Prior to G rails (or when they were an HRT only thing)  the BU went from A frame /7” quad rail guns to Troy alpha rails.

The original plan was to make all GOV issued guns 11.5” with 9” Troy Alpha rails. At the same time they brought back k the POW carbine program after a hiatus of several years. The new POW carbine was a 16” 6920 with an 11” Troy Alpha rails.

After a couple years of Alpha rails,  they dropped the Troy rails and started building all the GOV guns (both SWAT and general agent) and with the 10” MK4s.

What does HRT use - HRT works on fight club rules so your guess is as good as mine.

Remember it’s a big organization and nothing goes to waste so could some of the first SWAT teams to get Alpha rail guns gotten guns built with left over 10.5” barrels until the supply was exhausted ? Sure.

It’s just like other parts and accessories, The BU recently switched from Troy BUIS to magpul MBUS PROs.  At a certain point they stopped buying more Troys and started buying magpul’s but the Troy sights that were in stock were not thrown away etc they were just used to build or rebuild guns until they were exhausted and then they started using the magpuls.
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Great info! Does this mean that mbus pros are clone correct for odg gen 1 railed guns now?

Any idea if they are moving away from the inforce lights to surefire across the board? Apologies if this was already answered before in the large thread.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 9/8/2021 2:35:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ltong29] [#2]
Recently finished my clone upper.  Please don't drag me too hard on the lower, AR pistols are somewhat difficult to come by in California and SBR lowers are pretty much a no go.  I'm looking for some advice on weapon lights.  From the pictures in the thread, it appears the surefire M300c is correct, but are the M600 or the M340c correct?  It looks like the M340c is the M300c light with a different mounting solution.  Would black or tan be more correct, or is that irrelevant? Any advice would be appreciated!

Colt Cage Upper
Colt Cage 11.5" barrel
Geissele ODG Mark 4 Government Barrel
Aimpoint Micro T-2 on a DD mount
Troy flip up BUIS

Link Posted: 9/13/2021 8:49:44 PM EDT
[#3]
Added a Surefire M300C and Cloud Defensive LCS.



Link Posted: 9/16/2021 10:47:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Finally got my upper completed! Next step is to SBR a Colt lower and put everything together!




This is my most "non-clone" clone, I'm building this one they way I want, not how it's issued. I don't need to break down the parts into a list, you guys already know what all these parts are. The piece I will mention is the barrel, it's a Colt FBI, but it's not the FSP version. That was a pretty difficult piece to find.

When I was acquiring parts I saw a ton of different Troy sights and had no idea which ones to buy. I asked a friend to ask Steve Troy what the correct ones are (since my friend and Mr. Troy are buddies). Well, I never received an answer. Instead of information, I was sent a free set of front and rear sights from Mr. Troy! Now that's some awesome customer service!

Since this is my non-clone clone, I'm also pairing it up with some other green parts. I think it's going to look pretty good once the build is finally complete!


Link Posted: 9/20/2021 6:46:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Coalkoy] [#5]
Attachment Attached File


More Black MK4 Rail
Link Posted: 9/20/2021 10:16:00 AM EDT
[#6]
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OMG so hot...
Link Posted: 9/23/2021 7:12:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Coalkoy] [#7]
Link Posted: 9/25/2021 1:12:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Coalkoy] [#8]
Link Posted: 10/5/2021 1:22:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BHMucci] [#9]
Deleted
Link Posted: 10/5/2021 1:23:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BHMucci] [#10]
Deleted
Link Posted: 10/6/2021 12:00:37 PM EDT
[#11]
It looks like you're also missing a muzzle device from that list.
Link Posted: 10/6/2021 12:55:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: YardDogOne] [#12]
I wasn’t aware there were any Colt restricted lowers that could be used as pistols.
SBR’s yeah…. But what happened to once a rifle always a rifle ?
Please school me. I’m in


ETA: picture deleted per original posters request
Link Posted: 10/7/2021 6:37:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 10/7/2021 10:01:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By YardDogOne:
I wasn’t aware there were any Colt restricted lowers that could be used as pistols.
SBR’s yeah…. But what happened to once a rifle always a rifle ?
Please school me. I’m in


https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1286/B41EF53B-645A-4A58-B81F-B060603374A9-2120418.jpg
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It’s his gun. He can build it however he wants
Link Posted: 10/8/2021 7:36:31 AM EDT
[#15]
geez girls..... I never said he couldn't do what he wants, everyone does, I just wanna know how, but I guess it's a touchy subject
Link Posted: 10/8/2021 2:25:40 PM EDT
[#16]


Not super "clone correct" but the beginning to my FBI build (DD 11.5 barrel). Will be swapping out the LEAP T2 mount for DD and Troy flip up sights is in the immediate future.
Link Posted: 10/8/2021 4:27:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pptxRanger:
https://i.imgur.com/YrrZCoo.jpg

Not super "clone correct" but the beginning to my FBI build (DD 11.5 barrel). Will be swapping out the LEAP T2 mount for DD and Troy flip up sights is in the immediate future.
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the background itself is an art....awesome!
Link Posted: 10/8/2021 6:56:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tyrant556:


the background itself is an art....awesome!
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tyrant556:
Originally Posted By pptxRanger:
https://i.imgur.com/YrrZCoo.jpg

Not super "clone correct" but the beginning to my FBI build (DD 11.5 barrel). Will be swapping out the LEAP T2 mount for DD and Troy flip up sights is in the immediate future.


the background itself is an art....awesome!
Yeah that's pretty cool

You need to take a pic of the background by itself
Link Posted: 10/8/2021 7:52:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BHMucci] [#19]
So I have a colt fbi hrt upper/barrel with the FSB. I was going to have BRT install the .065" insert in a geiselle gas block, and "bomb proof" it, but they don't make the inserts anymore.

They suggested if I wanted to use the Geissele gas block and achieve the overall desired .067 gas block size, to get their .069 eztune gas tube.

The other option is to just send the barrel to ADCO and have them do a shave and keep the original .070"

I'm trying to get as close to clone as possible, what do you guys think is the better option?
Link Posted: 10/14/2021 10:28:25 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tyrant556:


the background itself is an art....awesome!
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Lol thanks, never thought of it like that, I'll see what I can do when I'm at the range next time!
Link Posted: 10/14/2021 10:53:11 AM EDT
[#21]
Well, the wifey overspent on wedding stuff. My green upper is up in the EE.
Link Posted: 10/16/2021 12:18:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: doyouquaxu] [#22]
edited because @ThRob is a prick
Link Posted: 10/17/2021 12:19:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: doyouquaxu] [#23]
edited because @ThRob is a prick
Link Posted: 10/17/2021 12:49:55 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PA-Minuteman:
Yeah that's pretty cool

You need to take a pic of the background by itself
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PA-Minuteman:
Originally Posted By Tyrant556:
Originally Posted By pptxRanger:
https://i.imgur.com/YrrZCoo.jpg

Not super "clone correct" but the beginning to my FBI build (DD 11.5 barrel). Will be swapping out the LEAP T2 mount for DD and Troy flip up sights is in the immediate future.


the background itself is an art....awesome!
Yeah that's pretty cool

You need to take a pic of the background by itself


like this...

Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 10/17/2021 10:05:41 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By doyouquaxu:
Assembled loosely for the pic, still have to torque the barrel nut and get a muzzle device. Maxim CQB stock, BA barrel, Aero upper and lower. Only "clone correct" parts will be the rail and Hogue grip.

https://i.imgur.com/gUUeueX.jpeg
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So then, you’re building an SBR? Probably belongs in another thread.
Link Posted: 10/17/2021 10:16:18 AM EDT
[#26]
our newest carbine 2.0 is in the works now with new & improved enhancements; testing to commence soon with eventual field issue sometime next year, I'm guessing...
Link Posted: 10/17/2021 2:20:01 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hrt4me:
our newest carbine 2.0 is in the works now with new & improved enhancements; testing to commence soon with eventual field issue sometime next year, I'm guessing...
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Can you talk about any changes?
Link Posted: 10/17/2021 5:29:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hrt4me:
our newest carbine 2.0 is in the works now with new & improved enhancements; testing to commence soon with eventual field issue sometime next year, I'm guessing...
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And just like that, all our FBI clones are retro clones
Link Posted: 10/17/2021 5:37:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ThRob:


So then, you’re building an SBR? Probably belongs in another thread.
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Cool thanks, might want to include the guy who posted his green rail above me with the larue lower and pistol brace since that's not a clone either.
Link Posted: 10/17/2021 9:15:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HKocher] [#30]
…..
Link Posted: 10/17/2021 9:20:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HKocher:


Rumor I heard is DSU is planning on issuing the same weapons systems for regular agents and SWAT agents, which IMHO is ridiculous given the immense training and ability gap between line agents and SWAT agents.

NTTU was testing suppressors to put out for SWAT (long over due), but supposedly all agents will be getting suppressors too.

Kind of like how the G19M with RMR was going to be the new SWAT handgun, but now all agent carbines are going to eventually get the RMR.

So much for the S and W in SWAT.
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I don’t see how giving regular agents better equipment is a bad thing. I could see if they were going to take away equipment from SWAT, but if they’re just bringing regular agents up to the same standard, there is no way that’s a bad thing.

When it comes to SWAT, it’s not the weapons, it’s the tactics. Training and experience is what gives them an edge, not a monopoly on Gucci gear.
Link Posted: 10/17/2021 9:27:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HKocher] [#32]
…..
Link Posted: 10/18/2021 7:18:32 AM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HKocher:


Don’t get me wrong, the SBR Geisseles and RDS for all agent carbines was a good move, but at some point giving enhanced equipment to those that barely have the skills and training to use basic equipment is at best, a waste of money, and at worst, detrimental. Line agents need much more training, not necessarily more gear to make up for the lack thereof.

Besides, HRT already has the monopoly on Gucci gear.
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Originally Posted By HKocher:
Originally Posted By AZgunner:

I don’t see how giving regular agents better equipment is a bad thing. I could see if they were going to take away equipment from SWAT, but if they’re just bringing regular agents up to the same standard, there is no way that’s a bad thing.

When it comes to SWAT, it’s not the weapons, it’s the tactics. Training and experience is what gives them an edge, not a monopoly on Gucci gear.


Don’t get me wrong, the SBR Geisseles and RDS for all agent carbines was a good move, but at some point giving enhanced equipment to those that barely have the skills and training to use basic equipment is at best, a waste of money, and at worst, detrimental. Line agents need much more training, not necessarily more gear to make up for the lack thereof.

Besides, HRT already has the monopoly on Gucci gear.



FBI is a government agency, wasting money is part of the job
Link Posted: 10/18/2021 8:55:38 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Muzap:


And just like that, all our FBI clones are retro clones
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Muzap:
Originally Posted By hrt4me:
our newest carbine 2.0 is in the works now with new & improved enhancements; testing to commence soon with eventual field issue sometime next year, I'm guessing...


And just like that, all our FBI clones are retro clones


sorry for the confusion, I am strictly referring to the 'grey' carbines, with modified retractable buttstocks, different optics and WMLs and slings coming...
Link Posted: 10/19/2021 11:03:47 AM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


My most favorite place in the world! Hope to get back soon.
Link Posted: 10/21/2021 3:50:05 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By doyouquaxu:


Cool thanks, might want to include the guy who posted his green rail above me with the larue lower and pistol brace since that's not a clone either.
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One is a guy doing his best to clone with what is available in his state and has as many accurate parts as possible; the other is a guy using a rail and calling it a clone of a gun that also uses the rail - one is an attempt at a clone and the other is not.
Link Posted: 10/24/2021 11:24:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: pptxRanger] [#37]
Moving in another direction, have my upper on the EE if anyone is interested. Also open to parting out if anyone is seeking the rail or other parts. Only thing not clone correct is the barrel (11.5 DD CHF barrel and DD GB).
Link Posted: 10/25/2021 10:22:01 PM EDT
[#38]
First question as I gather parts for my build. Regarding a regional SWAT build , was the Sphur HRT mount ever seen on one of those or clone correct or is it strictly the DD mount?
Link Posted: 10/26/2021 5:01:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By reaper556:
First question as I gather parts for my build. Regarding a regional SWAT build , was the Sphur HRT mount ever seen on one of those or clone correct or is it strictly the DD mount?
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Just the DD mount for the T2 and the Sig mount if using that optic. The Sphur mount was used by HRT and not regional teams.
Link Posted: 10/27/2021 7:55:44 PM EDT
[#40]
I have a new 11.5” Colt “commando” barrel (clone correct for green rails, not sure about others) that’s never been drilled for an FSB.

If someone has an 11.5” Colt barrel with FSB that they don’t need and would like to have the above, send me an IM.
Link Posted: 10/30/2021 1:31:25 AM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HKocher:


Don’t get me wrong, the SBR Geisseles and RDS for all agent carbines was a good move, but at some point giving enhanced equipment to those that barely have the skills and training to use basic equipment is at best, a waste of money, and at worst, detrimental. Line agents need much more training, not necessarily more gear to make up for the lack thereof.

Besides, HRT already has the monopoly on Gucci gear.
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I agree on the training aspect. But how is it detrimental for them to have this gun over what they had before? Manual of arms is the same and the training for either is the same. It's not like shooting a green or grey gun is harder than shooting a black carbine.
Link Posted: 10/30/2021 10:09:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: HKocher] [#42]
…..
Link Posted: 10/30/2021 8:22:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HKocher:


Like I said, give everyone the Geissele SBR as they are now, but replace the Inforce WML with a SF m300, and replace the Sig Romeos with Aimpoint H-2, add a nice adjustable sling. Leave the suppressors, ATPIALs, LPVO, etc. for SWAT. Short stocks for SOG. One size fits all solutions almost always result in inferior products for persons with different job descriptions and training levels.

To highlight the training issue, back when all agents were issued soft armor with pockets for optional rifle plates, SWAT was using plate carriers. Someone decided all agents should get plate carriers, guess what happened. Some non SWAT agents were wearing empty plate carriers on ops thinking it was armor.

Depending on their primary firearms instructor, non-SWAT agents are shooting their carbines in training one to four times a year. Hopefully they are getting some tactical training along with their firearms, but at most we’re talking maybe 8 hours of tactical training a year.

Contrast that with SWAT, with a three week basic course, four training days a month, and additional advanced and/or specialty training opportunities.
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Originally Posted By HKocher:
Originally Posted By Atticus1354:


I agree on the training aspect. But how is it detrimental for them to have this gun over what they had before? Manual of arms is the same and the training for either is the same. It's not like shooting a green or grey gun is harder than shooting a black carbine.


Like I said, give everyone the Geissele SBR as they are now, but replace the Inforce WML with a SF m300, and replace the Sig Romeos with Aimpoint H-2, add a nice adjustable sling. Leave the suppressors, ATPIALs, LPVO, etc. for SWAT. Short stocks for SOG. One size fits all solutions almost always result in inferior products for persons with different job descriptions and training levels.

To highlight the training issue, back when all agents were issued soft armor with pockets for optional rifle plates, SWAT was using plate carriers. Someone decided all agents should get plate carriers, guess what happened. Some non SWAT agents were wearing empty plate carriers on ops thinking it was armor.

Depending on their primary firearms instructor, non-SWAT agents are shooting their carbines in training one to four times a year. Hopefully they are getting some tactical training along with their firearms, but at most we’re talking maybe 8 hours of tactical training a year.

Contrast that with SWAT, with a three week basic course, four training days a month, and additional advanced and/or specialty training opportunities.



At this point, the more inept and incompetent the FBI is, the better
Link Posted: 10/30/2021 8:35:05 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HKocher:
Like I said, give everyone the Geissele SBR as they are now, but replace the Inforce WML with a SF m300, and replace the Sig Romeos with Aimpoint H-2, add a nice adjustable sling. Leave the suppressors, ATPIALs, LPVO, etc. for SWAT. Short stocks for SOG. One size fits all solutions almost always result in inferior products for persons with different job descriptions and training levels.
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No one should run an inforce wml for sure and a better dot is always nice. I disagree about the suppressors. Give those to everyone fbi or not and sure leave the IR lasers for the people who actually have nvgs in their kits. Are they actually going to be issuing those to the regular agents who don't have nvgs?
Link Posted: 10/31/2021 9:01:03 AM EDT
[#45]
I’m looking for some photos of non standard optics if possible-any EXPS or 1-6 guns in use?  Thought I saw something before but couldn’t find it again
Link Posted: 10/31/2021 9:40:32 AM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dempsy1:
I’m looking for some photos of non standard optics if possible-any EXPS or 1-6 guns in use?  Thought I saw something before but couldn’t find it again
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Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 11/21/2021 1:12:21 AM EDT
[#47]
Still working on my clone, should be done soon. Going to try the Inforce for a bit but will likely replace it with a SureFire.
Link Posted: 11/28/2021 10:46:45 PM EDT
[#48]
I’ve decided that I’m going to sell my Colt Commando barrel that I mentioned awhile back, never been mounted, never been drilled for an FSB.

I’m trying to come up with a reasonable price before I list it, what’s its value?
Link Posted: 12/2/2021 2:00:58 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sputnik556:
I’ve decided that I’m going to sell my Colt Commando barrel that I mentioned awhile back, never been mounted, never been drilled for an FSB.

I’m trying to come up with a reasonable price before I list it, what’s its value?
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Tough to say. I think I paid two-something for my virgin Colt commando barrel.
Link Posted: 12/2/2021 6:17:50 AM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AZgunner:

Tough to say. I think I paid two-something for my virgin Colt commando barrel.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AZgunner:
Originally Posted By Sputnik556:
I’ve decided that I’m going to sell my Colt Commando barrel that I mentioned awhile back, never been mounted, never been drilled for an FSB.

I’m trying to come up with a reasonable price before I list it, what’s its value?

Tough to say. I think I paid two-something for my virgin Colt commando barrel.

IIRC I paid something like $250 with shipping, but they’re all OOS now so I put it in the EE for $300 OBO.
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